Pricing help on kitchen refit

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kev.k

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Hi all!

I have posted on here before for advice on pricing and received some really great advice so wanted to see if I am still in the ball park of fair pricing. I still work for a company but on shifts so have been doing more and more work on my days off. Still unsure whether to just work out a day rate for myself or whether it depends on the job itself how to price. I'm based in the North West.

I have been asked to quote for a new kitchen, the house recently had an EICR and the kitchen ring was fine so they don't want a new circuit just the existing altering.

6 new points for appliances
2 cooker circuits approx 10 metres from CU (hob and double oven) as no cooker circuits currently in
10 spotlights on 2 seperate switches running from existing feeds but new switch wires in new location
Pendant light on seperate switch
Light in conservatory on adjoining wall (no light currently in)
All chrome accessories (10 sockets in total, 2 switches, 10 spots)

If i've missed anything let me know.

Thanks
 
First things first. Price up all the materials that you will be supplying and add 10% to this figure.
Then try to work out roughly how long in hours that it will take you including testing, paperwork etc.
Are you making good around new boxes and chases? if yes add this to your hourly price.
Add materials to the labour and then stick an extra half day on top for mistakes and alterations to the plan.
Now you have a price to put forward to the homeowner.

I would be somewhere in the £2000-2500 ball park in Surrey South East.
 
Dustydazzler said:
First things first. Price up all the materials that you will be supplying and add 10% to this figure.
Then try to work out roughly how long in hours that it will take you including testing, paperwork etc.
Are you making good around new boxes and chases? if yes add this to your hourly price.
Add materials to the labour and then stick an extra half day on top for mistakes and alterations to the plan.
Now you have a price to put forward to the homeowner.

I would be somewhere in the £2000-2500 ball park in Surrey South East.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your reply!

I estimate 1 day first fix, 1 day second fix with testing. Plasterer will be coming in after first fix so no making good needed.

I have priced up all materials cable, accessories, lights etc at around £400 so was thinking 1400 but maybe I am too low, although with you being in Surrey it's obviously higher rates down there.

Thanks again!
 
If thats a grand in your hand and you are confident in your 2 days getting the job done without any issues then its about right.
Don't go any lower. 1400 is a very fair price for that amount of work.
I personally wouldn't do it for 1400 but if you are happy then thats all the matters
 
Dustydazzler said:
If thats a grand in your hand and you are confident in your 2 days getting the job done without any issues then its about right.
Don't go any lower. 1400 is a very fair price for that amount of work.
I personally wouldn't do it for 1400 but if you are happy then thats all the matters
Click to expand...
THis... any job you walk away happy is a good job !
 
Any current RCD protection - RCD's/RCBO's req'd?
Existing board - suitability/capacity
Earthing & Bonding?
Part P Notification - New Circuits
 
If in as a builder, I always do materials + 10% + amount of days + 1 extra day in case of unforeseen problems/unforeseen costs.

So for me

((day rate * days) + 1 day) + (materials + 10%) = price

250 * 2 + 250 + 400 + 40 = £1190 in the North East

If in as a spark you can do say £50 per point and do 46 * 50 = £2300 - materials = £1900.

I've never priced up electrical work so i'm just going by what some people say they want per point, including every outlet/light point plus every switch. Seems dear to me lol, i wouldn't pay it anyway, but you look at guys like Artisan Electrics charging insane sums of money and he's always in work. If everyone charged more...well, a rising tide lifts all boats. And personally i'd rather work half the year for double the money if i could get it rather than work the whole year for half the pay.

My neighbour paid £180 on Thursday to have his gutters cleared and have two gable tiles repointed. It took them 45 minutes and they looked like an absolute bunch of scruffs, jumped out of a battered 25 year old van, looking like they both needed a shower, swearing at each other and generally being loud, disruptive and scrotey. They knocked on and tried to tell my wife ours needed doing even though they've recently been done. Didn't realise i was in LOL. Nice to try scamming an 8 month pregnant woman home alone though.

Puts it into perspective.
 
Last edited:
I have said this on here before (several times) and i will say it again

4 - 5 years to train as an electrician, maybe more these day
cps scam fee + insurance fee + very expensive test year + expensive insulated tools + work van + work clothes + admin

Vetted , qualified , scam registered electricians SHOULD be charging a bare minimum of £80 per hour

You got wet pants in my area charging £140-150 for changing blooming sink taps which takes zero qualifications and about 30 quids worth of basic tools and takes about 45 mins max

Our trade is charging no where near what it should be , we should be the most expensive trade by a mile yet I know plasterers and painters clearing £800 per day on price work
 
Dustydazzler said:
I have said this on here before (several times) and i will say it again

4 - 5 years to train as an electrician, maybe more these day
cps scam fee + insurance fee + very expensive test year + expensive insulated tools + work van + work clothes + admin

Vetted , qualified , scam registered electricians SHOULD be charging a bare minimum of £80 per hour

You got wet pants in my area charging £140-150 for changing blooming sink taps which takes zero qualifications and about 30 quids worth of basic tools and takes about 45 mins max

Our trade is charging no where near what it should be , we should be the most expensive trade by a mile yet I know plasterers and painters clearing £800 per day on price work
Click to expand...
Here here. I thought i had a lot of tools as a builder already but the amount of extras i'm having to buy because i'm getting into sparking is ridiculous.

Just a decent proving unit for your voltage tester is £100+!

The problem with electrics is stuff can look like it's functioning alright. It's only once they notice a burning smell or RCD's keep tripping that they'll get someone in. Can't do the same if your bathroom tap won't turn off fully or you're leaking water everywhere.

The tools + the training + all the fees for scams plus continual professional development + the danger factor of working with electric should mean sparks should be on a minimum of £300 a day nationwide imo.

In other countries where trades are regulated there are minimum wage amounts. Average take home salary in Sweden is almost £4k a month cards-in.
 
Last edited:
I brought some 'new' probe test leads from Ebay recently and they were dreadful, fakes I reckon as the plugs ends made a really poor contact and gave me some very high read outs

I messaged the seller and they must have know they were fakes as they told me to throw them in the bin and they refunded me straight away

buyer beware i guess, if the price is too good to be true then it probably is
 
Dustydazzler said:
I have said this on here before (several times) and i will say it again

4 - 5 years to train as an electrician, maybe more these day
cps scam fee + insurance fee + very expensive test year + expensive insulated tools + work van + work clothes + admin

Vetted , qualified , scam registered electricians SHOULD be charging a bare minimum of £80 per hour

You got wet pants in my area charging £140-150 for changing blooming sink taps which takes zero qualifications and about 30 quids worth of basic tools and takes about 45 mins max

Our trade is charging no where near what it should be , we should be the most expensive trade by a mile yet I know plasterers and painters clearing £800 per day on price work
Click to expand...
Very true..I know others that are now in CCTV, Wet pants or Kitchen work etc . Very simple in reality and better money . The race to the bottom was people wanting to compete with eastern Euro people who could live 8 in a room etc and save what they could to build a house at home. Investing NOTHING in this country .
 
Dustydazzler said:
Vetted , qualified , scam registered electricians SHOULD be charging a bare minimum of £80 per hour
Click to expand...
That bis about right. In the contracts I used to be involved in that was the rate they changed for technical support work (so qualified engineer, but not PhD level) to account for the overheads of running a business.

The rule-of-thumb I was told is you need to charge about double what you hope to earn to allow for your overheads such has tools/van, insurance, calibration fees, "professional body" fees (no, not her body...), accountancy, as well as the risk of not being paid due to no work/unable to work from injury/not paid by some scroat.
 
kev.k said:
Hi all!

I have posted on here before for advice on pricing and received some really great advice so wanted to see if I am still in the ball park of fair pricing. I still work for a company but on shifts so have been doing more and more work on my days off. Still unsure whether to just work out a day rate for myself or whether it depends on the job itself how to price. I'm based in the North West.

I have been asked to quote for a new kitchen, the house recently had an EICR and the kitchen ring was fine so they don't want a new circuit just the existing altering.

6 new points for appliances
2 cooker circuits approx 10 metres from CU (hob and double oven) as no cooker circuits currently in
10 spotlights on 2 seperate switches running from existing feeds but new switch wires in new location
Pendant light on seperate switch
Light in conservatory on adjoining wall (no light currently in)
All chrome accessories (10 sockets in total, 2 switches, 10 spots)

If i've missed anything let me know.

Thanks
Click to expand...
I would be approx £1780 - £1900 (very approx, as it's impossible to be accurate without seeing it first). I'm in Gloucestershire.

There's no way I could do that in 2 days. I would be 3-4 days.

You are likely to be able to get away with 1 new cooker circuit as long as the combined kW is below 15kW (remember diversity) and there is no socket on the cooker switch, plus the oven and hob would have to be near to each other. Then use a dual cooker outlet plate.
 
I agree , I no longer rush and certainly no longer pull 11-12 hour days

So on a standard kitchen rewire I would allow a minimum of 2.5 days , 3 days if it was a big kitchen , 4 days if a new consumer unit is required
 
I still think that working 10 plus hours a day makes trades look a bit "Desperate " .You have lives and families .Also my pet hate it customers thinking I will be working sundays for the same rate and doing any noisy work. They have neighbours and the law is right about trades working over the weekends .Ive had a neighbour who thought it was great to have 5 lads turn up at 7.30am on sundays for weeks doing demolition etc .He just said he wanted the job done and he didnt care. But immigration and the employment office /building control people showed a interest and it went very quiet :)
 
pc1966 said:
Thanks, had not realised that.

But still if I am ordering it for delivery there are cheaper options, and what is the point of their stores?!
Click to expand...

It's not often that I'd order from them online, but has been convenient on a couple of occasions for products that were difficult to obtain.

In honesty I'd probably look at ebay for a cheap proving unit - while the site might be filled with junk, there's little to no chance of that Socket & See proving unit being counterfeit.
 
I don’t buy just anything off eBay, but with careful consideration there are bargains to be had. That one even had an in date calibration sticker on it. While it’s a safety critical device if it doesn’t work it’s quite obvious and leads to the safe assumption the two pole tester has failed.
Of course the other point is that a lot of the time there’s a more convenient live source to prove with to hand, and it will sit in the bag for weeks at a time.
 
Thanks for the advice everyone, much appreciated. I think maybe best to price at 3 days like a few have said.

Current board is a dual RCD Wylex so no need to change anything there just add a couple of breakers for the cooker circuits. The hob and double oven are on opposite sides of the kitchen, which is why i've priced for two seperate circuits. The sockets etc for the kitchen are going from the existing circuit so no Part P required just minor works cert, it's only the 2 cooker circuits that will need Part P.

I'll stick with my materials price but add an extra day labour.

Thanks again all!
 
The only extra which I found out today is the water stop tap has been moved by the plumber, who removed the bonding and has left cut off (the homeowners are still living in the property). Have told the builder I will need to run a new 10mm bonding from the CU to which he said just crimp the existing one to make it reach ?
 
kev.k said:
The only extra which I found out today is the water stop tap has been moved by the plumber, who removed the bonding and has left cut off (the homeowners are still living in the property). Have told the builder I will need to run a new 10mm bonding from the CU to which he said just crimp the existing one to make it reach ?
Click to expand...
Not a good approach to change it without doing the cable there & then, unless of course the external pipe is now plastic.

A proper crimp is OK, can be tidied with some heat-shrink sleeving if needed, but I shudder to think that your typical plumber would do.
 
pc1966 said:
Not a good approach to change it without doing the cable there & then, unless of course the external pipe is now plastic.

A proper crimp is OK, can be tidied with some heat-shrink sleeving if needed, but I shudder to think that your typical plumber would do.
Click to expand...
Is is not against regs though? The same as if gas and water was on the same bond you have to just take off the insulation at the first point and not break the cable in case it comes loose?
 
kev.k said:
Is is not against regs though? The same as if gas and water was on the same bond you have to just take off the insulation at the first point and not break the cable in case it comes loose?
Click to expand...
There is nothing in the regs that say you must have a continuous length. But the example on GN3 (I think) shows what you suggest as good practice to avoid one fault causing multiple trouble.

I would say (don't think it is explicit in the regs though?) that any joint must be reliable / maintenance-free. You would get that from a solder joint, a proper crimp, or using an approved type of joint & enclosure.
 
kev.k said:
Current board is a dual RCD Wylex so no need to change anything there just add a couple of breakers for the cooker circuits.
Click to expand...

Bear in mind that the total of the MCBs hanging off each RCD should no longer exceed it's rating (unless main fuse is <or= to them) also you'll need to notify your 2 new cooker circuits and fill EIC.
 
I usually price a kitchen at about £600...2500 is very very high..most sparks would not get work at those rates
Dustydazzler said:
First things first. Price up all the materials that you will be supplying and add 10% to this figure.
Then try to work out roughly how long in hours that it will take you including testing, paperwork etc.
Are you making good around new boxes and chases? if yes add this to your hourly price.
Add materials to the labour and then stick an extra half day on top for mistakes and alterations to the plan.
Now you have a price to put forward to the homeowner.

I would be somewhere in the £2000-2500 ball park in Surrey South East.
Click to expand...
£600
Dustydazzler said:
I have said this on here before (several times) and i will say it again

4 - 5 years to train as an electrician, maybe more these day
cps scam fee + insurance fee + very expensive test year + expensive insulated tools + work van + work clothes + admin

Vetted , qualified , scam registered electricians SHOULD be charging a bare minimum of £80 per hour

You got wet pants in my area charging £140-150 for changing blooming sink taps which takes zero qualifications and about 30 quids worth of basic tools and takes about 45 mins max

Our trade is charging no where near what it should be , we should be the most expensive trade by a mile yet I know plasterers and painters clearing £800 per day on price work
Click to expand...
Doesn't work like that Dusty....there are too many electrical bods chasing too little work. By way of an example last week I was approached by the owner of a local boat storage yard....he wanted a price to replace 6 IP rated twin point sockets boxes with RCD protection...and run a new cable approx 50m to a new position ...costs as follows
Materials.......1800.00
3days labour at 150.00 pedal
Diesel.....................30.00
Total ...2280.00

Just had a reply from him "no thanks far too expensive....I was expecting something in region of 1000.00"...Needless to say I won't be hearing from him again ...so 3 hours of estimating time wasted
 
Brian Taylor said:
I usually price a kitchen at about £600...2500 is very very high..most sparks would not get work at those rates

£600

Doesn't work like that Dusty....there are too many electrical bods chasing too little work. By way of an example last week I was approached by the owner of a local boat storage yard....he wanted a price to replace 6 IP rated twin point sockets boxes with RCD protection...and run a new cable approx 50m to a new position ...costs as follows
Materials.......1800.00
3days labour at 150.00 pedal
Diesel.....................30.00
Total ...2280.00

Just had a reply from him "no thanks far too expensive....I was expecting something in region of 1000.00"...Needless to say I won't be hearing from him again ...so 3 hours of estimating time wasted
Click to expand...
Never ever work for poor people ! .
 

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