Probably will be a daft question, but being an oldie I'll ask it anyway

[Pete999]

does it my arse. a Electrical Trainee domestic installer can be niceic. that does not mean he's an electrician or knows his arse from his elbow. as long as his cheque cleared.

Say it like it is Mate and be dammed.

 

[sham]

I'm not talking about what is true

does it my arse. a Electrical Trainee domestic installer can be niceic. that does not mean he's an electrician or knows his arse from his elbow. as long as his cheque cleared.[/QUOTE
I am not talking facts, this thread is about what it means when someone asks if you are approved. My opinion is that on job applications if they ask you if you are approved they are asking if you are part of a scheme. These jobs do not ask if you are approved to 17th Edition or ECS. I'm not implying approved electricians are good at their job, I am saying they have been approved by an authorisation to do so.

 

[sham]

does it my arse. a Electrical Trainee domestic installer can be niceic. that does not mean he's an electrician or knows his arse from his elbow. as long as his cheque cleared.

I am not talking facts, this thread is about what it means when someone asks if you are approved. My opinion is that on job applications if they ask you if you are approved they are asking if you are part of a scheme. These jobs do not ask if you are approved to 17th Edition or ECS. I'm not implying approved electricians are good at their job, I am saying they have been approved by some company that have been given the authorisation to do so.

 

[Dillb]

I am not talking facts, this thread is about what it means when someone asks if you are approved. My opinion is that on job applications if they ask you if you are approved they are asking if you are part of a scheme. These jobs do not ask if you are approved to 17th Edition or ECS. I'm not implying approved electricians are good at their job, I am saying they have been approved by some company that have been given the authorisation to do so.

Why would someone who is a member of a scam be applying for a job?

 

[sham]

Why would someone who is a member of a scam be applying for a job?

Many reasons, for me it's to get a well paid job and quit being self employed as it comes with headaches. Then I can quit the scam membership.

 

[7029 dave]

'approved electrician' is a jib grade
you need to have completed
apprenticeship
nvq 3 in electrical
am2
inspection and testing
and two years graded as an electrician

NVQ 3 was not about then. I hold 236 A/B that was the requirement, plus 2 years supervised.

 

[Dillb]

Many reasons, for me it's to get a well paid job and quit being self employed as it comes with headaches. Then I can quit the scam membership.

In which case your scam memebrship becomes pointless as it will lapse meaning in your definition your no longer “approved”

 

[sham]

In which case your scam memebrship becomes pointless as it will lapse meaning in your definition your no longer “approved”

Yes that is correct, I'll be an qualified electrician and the company I will be with, will have to be approved. They have to be.

 

[Dillb]

Yes that is correct, I'll be an qualified electrician and the company I will be with, will have to be approved. They have to be.

Why do they? No one becomes “approved” under the umbrella of a company they work for, thats why the JIB are recognised as industry standard for qualifications.

 

[sham]

I was sent from an umbrella company, the people I had to work with, or for were approved under a scheme. The company you have to work for can not just be JIB rated they have to be Approved Contractors. Am I the only one who can see the sunrise here. They will employ JIB electricians because they have to, as it is the minimum requirement that allows them on site, under the law. CSCS for construction. However the approved electrician will have the bigger responsibilities.

 

[Dillb]

What? Half of that makes no sense what so ever. Also there is no law that states you need CSCS to get on site.

 

[sham]

What? Half of that makes no sense what so ever. Also there is no law that states you need CSCS to get on site.

When you are sent to jobs via an agency or umbrella company you wor

What? Half of that makes no sense what so ever. Also there is no law that states you need CSCS to get on site.

The ECS is another version of CSCS which lets you work on site as an Electrician. When an Agency sends you to work on a site, the people you work under will be Approved to a scheme. I have never been on site and the company who give me the orders are just ECS JIB rated, they will be Approved Contractors.

It is almost impossible to gain access to a construction site without being in possession of a trade card. Not only does a card prove your identity, qualification level and occupation, it also confirms your awareness of site Health and Safety.

The ECS Card Explained
The ECS is known as the Electrotechnical Certification Scheme and is the occupational card scheme for UK Electrotechnical workers. Whether you are a technically qualified manager or a trainee electrician, you will require a valid ECS card which proves your competence to industry standards.

Hope this help

 

[AJshep]

I only applied for my card recently.
I never needed it when I worked for someone, and we never worked on sites that required it..

I'm a sole trader now and member of NAPIT and I have no reason for needing a JIB Grading card other then to prove to my potential customer base that I am what I say I am.

I was hoping that people could look up my credentials online via this new ECS registered electrican thing the JIB are rolling out. And feel confident on who they get in to carry out their work.

If I'm honest NAPIT means nothing to me, but I need it to self certify jobs.

There us still confusion here...
We are talking about being officially graded rather then being approved/registered/endorsed by a scam.

JIB grading..
Core > Approved > Technician

 

[Dillb]

I understand what a ECS card is and its prpose. You serioulsy think that every electrician on site is assesed by a scam? No the chamces are the company has its membership based on the assesment of one job regardless of how many they employ so to think they are regarded by thr scams as competant is seriousy deluded.

 

[sham]

I understand what a ECS card is and its prpose. You serioulsy think that every electrician on site is assesed by a scam? No the chamces are the company has its membership based on the assesment of one job regardless of how many they employ so to think they are regarded by thr scams as competant is seriousy deluded.

You are missing the point, you are complaining about scheme membership to me, why?
I'm giving my opinion of when someone uses the term Approved electrician. I say It again, when someone asks you if you are Approved or are an Certified Electrician. They are asking can you certify your works and notify Building control.
Your seem to be debating about the scheme companies being a fraud, that's a completely different topic to me. Anyway I have never been on site and the ones giving me orders are not with some scheme, mainly NICEIC. However under health and safety all must have ECS or CSCS.

 

[sham]

I only applied for my card recently.
I never needed it when I worked for someone, and we never worked on sites that required it..

I'm a sole trader now and member of NAPIT and I have no reason for needing a JIB Grading card other then to prove to my potential customer base that I am what I say I am.

I was hoping that people could look up my credentials online via this new ECS registered electrican thing the JIB are rolling out. And feel confident on who they get in to carry out their work.

If I'm honest NAPIT means nothing to me, but I need it to self certify jobs.

There us still confusion here...
We are talking about being officially graded rather then being approved/registered/endorsed by a scam.

JIB grading..
Core > Approved > Technician

I completely understand, I myself am waiting for the Gold card.

 

[Pete999]

You are missing the point, you are complaining about scheme membership to me, why?
I'm giving my opinion of when someone uses the term Approved electrician. I say It again, when someone asks you if you are Approved or are an Certified Electrician. They are asking can you certify your works and notify Building control.
Your seem to be debating about the scheme companies being a fraud, that's a completely different topic to me. Anyway I have never been on site and the ones giving me orders are not with some scheme, mainly NICEIC. However under health and safety all must have ECS or CSCS.

The NICEIC is a Scheme, although they like to think they run thing electrical, but un reality they are a Scheme.

 

[Dillb]

Im not missing the point at all, I am self employed and not a member of any scam yet can still certify my works as can absolulty anyone else, there has never been a need to be in one to do it.

 

[sham]

The NICEIC is a Scheme, although they like to think they run thing electrical, but un reality they are a Scheme.

Yhea true, they act like some sort of electric police.

 

[Pete999]

Yhea true, they act like some sort of the police.

 

[sham]

Im not missing the point at all, I am self employed and not a member of any scam yet can still certify my works as can absolulty anyone else, there has never been a need to be in one to do it.

This is my problem, I need to know how, it's just that I was led to believe I have to be part of a scheme. I really do not know my options.
I don't want to give my money away to a scheme who just in it for profits, whilst I advertise there logo on my clothes hoping it will get me more work for more pay.

 

[Dillb]

This is my problem, I need to know how, it's just that I was led to believe I have to be part of a scheme. I really do not know my options.
I don't want to give my money away to a scheme who just in it for profits, whilst I advertise there logo on my clothes hoping it will get me more work for more pay.

Who has told you that imformation? What sort of work are you lolking at doing when you set up on your own?

 

[sham]

I need to read my comments before posting.

 

[sham]

Who has told you that imformation? What sort of work are you lolking at doing when you set up on your own?

Domestic, Commercial and industrial.
My old company was not part of a scheme, all the customers kept asking for periodic certificates which they called a third party to carry out. This company I worked for was small and very good. Every so often I heard big customers they worked for, telling them to become certified because they rather get them to do the certs. So to me being certified was showing that you mean business. Also when certain works are carried out, the architect will advise to call an certified electrician. An insurance company will ask for Certified Electricians. Mortgage lenders will want to see certs. To me if your not an approved Electrician your not an electrician by law. This was my confusion.

 

[sham]

Im not missing the point at all, I am self employed and not a member of any scam yet can still certify my works as can absolulty anyone else, there has never been a need to be in one to do it.

This is where I get confused, to me even I am wrong. The certificate is not valid unless it is done by Approved Contractor and paper with a serial number

 

[Dillb]

No, you need to prove comptance to be deemed a electrician. Theses no law ststing what that actually is which is why JIB seems to be used as a industry standard. As for EICRs again no meed to be a member of any scam, you teally should do some searching on this forum first as there is alot of good info to be found on here. Then ask queetions once you have a better idea of what is required.

 

[sham]

No, you need to prove comptance to be deemed a electrician. Theses no law ststing what that actually is which is why JIB seems to be used as a industry standard. As for EICRs again no meed to be a member of any scam, you teally should do some searching on this forum first as there is alot of good info to be found on here. Then ask queetions once you have a better idea of what is required.

Thanks, I will get to the bottom of this.

 

[Dillb]

This is where I get confused, to me even I am wrong. The certificate is not valid unless it is done by Approved Contractor and paper with a serial number

No the cert just has to have a unique reference so you can find it of requested. You can start you own certs with number 1, dont fall into the trap of thinking younhave to but their cert and numbers

 

[AJshep]

Everything Dillb says is about being able to self certify etc. Is 100 % correct and the NICEIC are notoriously the worst for trying to make their users use all their branded carp.
They are the ones to blame for this misconception that Solicitors etc. All adhere to.

However some of us sign up with a scam and pay our hard earned cash out because it's just easier. I can't be bothered to fight everyone to prove this and that's why I and so many others join these schemes.
If we all did what Dillb did these schemes wouldn't exist. So I respect these guys and girls that don't bow down

 

[sham]

No the cert just has to have a unique reference so you can find it of requested. You can start you own certs with number 1, dont fall into the trap of thinking younhave to but their cert and numbers

Everything Dillb says is about being able to self certify etc. Is 100 % correct and the NICEIC are notoriously the worst for trying to make their users use all their branded carp.
They are the ones to blame for this misconception that Solicitors etc. All adhere to.

However some of us sign up with a scam and pay our hard earned cash out because it's just easier. I can't be bothered to fight everyone to prove this and that's why I and so many others join these schemes.
If we all did what Dillb did these schemes wouldn't exist. So I respect these guys and girls that don't bow down

The National Inspection Council for Electrical Installation Contracting

It's the wording too, The National Inspection Council. It sounds like law. It's misleading.

 

[loplug]

NVQ 3 was not about then. I hold 236 A/B that was the requirement, plus 2 years supervised.

Op asked What constitutes an "Approved Electrician "these days?
so I detailed the requirements now

 

[Dillb]

The National Inspection Council for Electrical Installation Contracting

It's the wording too, The National Inspection Council. It sounds like law. It's misleading.

Thing is they were ince upon a time held in high esteem in the industry, but since the Part P fiasco has started they have just been about chasing the ££££

 

[Pete999]

This is my problem, I need to know how, it's just that I was led to believe I have to be part of a scheme. I really do not know my options.
I don't want to give my money away to a scheme who just in it for profits, whilst I advertise there logo on my clothes hoping it will get me more work for more pay.

 

[telectrix]

the confusion arises between approved electrician and approved contractor.

an approved electrician is one who has got qualifications and experience to apply for and obtain the approved electrician's JIB card. membership of a scheme is totally irrelevant.

an approved contractor is one who (irrespective of qualifications) has shown jobs to a scam provider and complies with their rules. ( and paid them a fortune for the privilege).

it's the latter case that is required to comply with part pee notification, or used to be before the scams got their noses in the trough and created a new title of ( ach,spit) domestic installer, a large percentage of which have poor training, next to nil experience, but keep the trough brim full for the scams and the Electrical Trainee traning providers.

 

[wsoppitt]

My jib/ecs gold card status is "approved electrician". The card has a list of gained qualifications on the rear. This title was automatically given to me after i applied for the card following my ecs health and safety exam. I can only assume that having a certain level of qualification entitles the recipient to be graded as such, nothing to do with niceic, napit, elecsa or part p.

 

[Pete999]

My jib/ecs gold card status is "approved electrician". The card has a list of gained qualifications on the rear. This title was automatically given to me after i applied for the card following my ecs health and safety exam. I can only assume that having a certain level of qualification entitles the recipient to be graded as such, nothing to do with niceic, napit, elecsa or part p.

What qualifications do you have and what are your experiences within this Trade?

 

[wsoppitt]

Pete, my backround is as follows, apprenticeship from school with british timken for 4 years in 1990. Gained my city and guilds 236 pt 1&2, city and guilds 2391 and the 238 17th edition. Since worked mainly within the new build residential sector, so as you can see nothing special about my qualifications or history.