RCD protection on multiple 3 phase machines

[Knobhead]

Next thing these quangos will insist on will be grounding on the Van De Graaf generators in the school science labs so no-one gets a shock!!!

No need for that. The schools can't use them now.

 

[Spoon]

I wasn't having a go at you, just the whole idea of RCD everything.

Sorry Tony. I know you wasnt having a go at me.... Its just the way I word things, it always comes across as aggressive... and im a little ----- cat really...

 

[Darkwood]

Is everyone missing the obvious here, run the supply in armoured to each ramp, and to previous posters, no the ramps don't drop hen the power is disconnected there are latching mechanism in place for just that.

What about 4 post portable rigs with trailer plug supply.... this is a case where i would have the supply covered just been to a garage and the S/Y extension lead 3ph/400v (Yes i know i took them out of service immediately) went across the workshop and was both damaged and had lost its earth.... the OP hasn't expressed the set-up but in general for fixed set-ups i see no need for rcd cover also most newer ramps have selv control power and only have LV to motor which is usually mechanically protected ... Also to note here is only the supply to the ramp is covered by the BS7671 the ramp itself isn't.

 

[Darkwood]

No need for that. The schools can't use them now.

Same set of toolheads that banned conkers i bet!

 

[telectrix]

and still recommend plug-in socket covers where children are.

 

[shagbite]

knock-a-door run & conkers; have you been reminiscing about your schooldays DW?

 

[telectrix]

and mustn't forget the full face protection in cookery class when mixing things like tea and water.

 

[Tiny Spark]

I dont see the point to be honest.
We recently had a similar issue but we said the staff who would be working with the equipment in question would be part of the engineering dept and therefore did not need the rcd protection.

However where we have had to rcd protect the 3 phase gear for whatever reason we have brought 3 phase socket outlets with built in rcbo's.

 

[telectrix]

bloody H&S madness. they'll be wanting scaffold to climb on the bog next.

 

[Spoon]

I just want to be a fly on the wall and see the expression on the H&S persons face when Dave goes along with darkwoods post 15, and states that he will add the RCD's when he receives a written demand for them from H&S and "all cost incurred due to nuisance tripping of RCD's will be passed to them as they are stipulating measures beyond BS7671"

 

[Dave 85]

Cheers for all the advice lads. I have quoted to install a couple of single phase C/U's with RCBO's to cover the socket circuits and a 3phase RCD in an enclosure for each car ramp. I'm gonna take another look before I agree to anything fully though.
With regards to weather or not the stuff should actually have RCD....interesting debate but considering they're insisting they want it I don't really see it as being my place to tell them they cant have it.

 

[Darkwood]

As the OP hasn't given enough detail about the full set-up there may be good reason for them to stipulate RCD protection ... like lack of maintenance or age and condition of ramps ...i hope he considers this before storming in like a bull in a china shop.

As ive said before the H&S asking for rcd protection can only be to the isolators and thus reasoning under BS7671 needs to be established.

They cant request rcd protection for the ramp under BS7671 because its falls outside the BS7671 but they may be utilising other regulations for which the ramps fall under but firstly i would be asking for specific regulations and codes of practice as putting a rcd on a 4motor ramp with inverter control would be asking for trouble even without inverter run motors their could be issues.

If the ramps are on plug tops then yes the sockets should be rcd covered as anything can be plugged in and run around the garage prone to damage but if hardwired id be asking a few questions.

 

[Darkwood]

Cheers for all the advice lads. I have quoted to install a couple of single phase C/U's with RCBO's to cover the socket circuits and a 3phase RCD in an enclosure for each car ramp. I'm gonna take another look before I agree to anything fully though.
With regards to weather or not the stuff should actually have RCD....interesting debate but considering they're insisting they want it I don't really see it as being my place to tell them they cant have it.

Not saying they can't have them just ask under what code of practice or regulation they are requesting rcd protection and also fitting rcd's may promote nuisance tripping which would be in breach of BS7671 ... are the ramps hard wired to isolators or direct to DB or are they on plug/socket assemblies?

 

[joel89]

surely the ramps have to be checked every 6 months anyway under LOLER ?? and theres no trailing cables like off a 13a sockets, seems over the top and pointless RCD'S on ramps.. what next?

 

[telectrix]

surely the ramps have to be checked every 6 months anyway under LOLER ?? and theres no trailing cables like off a 13a sockets, seems over the top and pointless RCD'S on ramps.. what next?

hard hats for motor mechanics, just in case a jubilee clip falls on the head.

 

[Brightspark2]

Ive had this exact same scenario about 6 months ago, an 'engineer' from there European head office visited and demanded all sockets including 32A,63A, sockets used for welding etc etc all be protected by RCD. We informed them this was not necessary but the 'engineers' word was final. He wanted them fitted. Its ok saying argue this and that but at the end of the day if we didnt do it they where just going to get someone else to do it and we'd lose the contract. So we got it done.

Where we couldnt install RCBO's we did as you say and installed RCD sockets or enclosures next to the equipment. Dont forget if there's no neutral you'll need a resistor to get the test button to work on the RCD.

 

[Dizzy_Maskell]

Well said think you need to read your copy of the regs
If you have one ?????

 

[netblindpaul]

1st confession, I lost the will to live reading all replies.
The H&S person is DEFINITELY not from Her Majesties Health & Safety Executive.
I also very much doubt they are competent to comment on such things.
IF the ramps are bolted to the floor, and the wiring to them meets the requirements for BS7671 why RCD.
I can't understand why they are on plugs & sockets, unless they are portable which is a different kettle of fish.
Change the plugs & sockets to isolators and hard wire them, no need for RCD's.

If there is info given in the thread after page 2 I ain't read it the forum crashed so I could not be bothered!

I only know a handful of H&S consultants who are electrically competent, out of the 100's I know of.

 

[Brightspark2]

hard hats for motor mechanics, just in case a jubilee clip falls on the head.

It just gets worse doesnt it. They need to keep thinking of new rules to keep them in a job though!...

 

[davethsparky]

Same set of toolheads that banned conkers i bet!

Who banned conkers? you cant blame the HSE for that one.

Have a look here: Myth: Kids must wear goggles to play conkers

Just look through all the 'myth of the month' pages and the h+s mythbuster cases, its a very sad situation when the HSE are having to waste their time trying to undo the damage that the mini hitlers on a power trip have caused.

I think as far as the HSE go and the actual laws and requirements it is mostly quite sensible, its the idiots that misinterpret it all and shout loudly about how everything is banned that have ruined it.