Replacing Wiring Under a Very Old Church

[shimoldaman]

The return leg of a Ring Circuit in MICC, under the floorboards of an ancient Church built c.1841, is faulty as it continually blows fuses.Has been tested and its Insulation Test fails. As it is a very old foundation there is not a great deal of headroom under the floorboard and the original cables routing to the DB are blocked by a massive stone upon which an extension was added to the Church sides later on.

Replacing like-for-like MICC would be virtually impossible to cable in due to lack of room, access, manoeuvrability and flexibility of an MICC cable. So, would replacing that faulty MICC with a 2.5T+E do the job and satisfy the Regs as the Church has to be inspected before an insurance renewal?

 

[londonlec]

PVC T and E doesn't sound too good in a church.

Could the ring be converted into a radial circuit?

 

[IQ Electrical]

If the T&E is suitable for any external influences encountered on the run and the overcurrent protection is suitable then there is no reason why you can't use it.

 

[Engineer54]

If the T&E is suitable for any external influences encountered on the run and the overcurrent protection is suitable then there is no reason why you can't use it.

I don't think the Church insurance company would agree with you there!! Most insurance companies indemnifying very old and ancient buildings, and especially churches and the like, insist on MICC installations for all final circuits and fire alarm systems. They hate parting with any money!!...lol!!!

 

[IQ Electrical]

I don't think the Church insurance company would agree with you there!! Most insurance companies indemnifying very old and ancient buildings, and especially churches and the like, insist on MICC installations for all final circuits and fire alarm systems. They hate parting with any money!!...lol!!!

Agreed but the op asked if it would 'satisfy the regs'.

I'd like to think that anyone taking on church work would check insurance/church special requirements.

My atheism precludes any specific advice in this area

 

[madmac]

It may be worth re-making the ends of the micc cable as that is almost certainly where the fault lies ( unless of course you have evidence of compression fault due other trades doing alterations which may have crushed or sharply bent the pyro). It could just save you a small fortune and put a very big smile on the treasurer of the said kirk.

 

[shimoldaman]

It may be worth re-making the ends of the micc cable as that is almost certainly where the fault lies ( unless of course you have evidence of compression fault due other trades doing alterations which may have crushed or sharply bent the pyro). It could just save you a small fortune and put a very big smile on the treasurer of the said kirk.

Thank you for that prompt reply.

That idea is great, but as the church had the ancient heating replaced,massive heating pipework blocks access in already narrow spaces in the brickwork to being to pull any spare MICC from underneath to remake ends as suggested.

Where the cable comes through from underneath to terminate at the last S/O in that ring is a solid rock floorand that last S/O cannot be accessed. Would I be able to add a junction box where that cable emanates from that rock floor,cut back, and then take a new MICC to the S/O?

 

[Spudnik]

Fp200..

 

[Big n Daft]

PVC T and E doesn't sound too good in a church.

Could the ring be converted into a radial circuit?

Radials is the way forward, if you can find an mcb for the DB

 

[Engineer54]

FP200 cable is Probably Not acceptable by the insurers again, They are normally very strict on these buildings, as they know full well, these buildings spend a lot of time unoccupied, and are not generally very well maintained, usually relying on freebies by members of the congregations....

 

[shimoldaman]

FP200 cable is Probably Not acceptable by the insurers again, They are normally very strict on these buildings, as they know full well, these buildings spend a lot of time unoccupied, and are not generally very well maintained, usually relying on freebies by members of the congregations....

Eh....? What has a church getting freebies from qualified working tradespeople got to do with this poser?

Thanks for your input.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Definitely check with the church. There is a statement at the start of the regs that goes along the lines of "private licences establishments may contain their own set of specific regs which must be abided by" or something on those lines!! If they've got guidelines set out you may have to abide by them.

 

[shimoldaman]

Definitely check with the church. There is a statement at the start of the regs that goes along the lines of "private licences establishments may contain their own set of specific regs which must be abided by" or something on those lines!! If they've got guidelines set out you may have to abide by them.

Many thanks for that

 

[Des 56]

The eclesiastical insurance site will give many in house requirements
https://www.ecclesiastical.com/Chur...dsafety/Buildingworksforyourchurch/index.aspx

 

[Engineer54]

Eh....? What has a church getting freebies from qualified working tradespeople got to do with this poser?

Thanks for your input.

Who said anything about ''qualified working tradespeople''?? ....The chances are they are not!!! ...But very willing to do a bit of DIY for the church to save a bit of money!!!

The main fact here is that insurers, tend to be strict about indemnifying old churches and the like.

 

[Engineer54]

shimoldaman,

Depending on how well you work with MICC cable and it's terminations, you can re-pot a the existing termination(s) without any need of pulling slack, by removing the existing
pot(s) and compound. Alway replace the old pot with a new one, don't try and re-use them... Also a good idea, is to chase any possible moisture in the MICC cable out, with a heat source prior to re-potting... This was once a common practice on faulty terminated pots, and going by your handle, you would probably know that...

 

[madmac]

Engineer54, that's pretty much what I was getting at also, so cheers for clearing that up.

 

[darking]

Don't forget the lightning protection or God might strike you dead

 

[trev]

Don't forget the lightning protection or God might strike you dead

Shouldn't that read "God may smite thee"

 

[Rockingit]

I wonder if you might be able to use God as a subbie on the job for you? I've heard the use of deity labour can do miracles for your prophet margins.

 

[Knobhead]

If you know the leg of the ring that’s causing the trouble, cut back the copper sheath by the length of a conduit coupling, heat to dry out and then remake off. This does depend on the conductors not being damaged by flash over.

 

[darking]

Shouldn't that read "God may smite thee"

If thou art traditional, dear brother, and thy conscience troubleth thee

 

[darking]

I wonder if you might be able to use God as a subbie on the job for you? I've heard the use of deity labour can do miracles for your prophet margins.

perhaps project manager, He is very creative after all, and before all also

 

[Rockingit]

Project Manager??! Are you MAD man??? You would want to appoint someone who really CAN do every trade and better than them, with instant results expected??!!

Now, that old chap Lucifer, you could probably have some decent building site fun with. Corr!, have you seen the set of horns in the Sun today??

 

[cablemonkey]

I wonder in you could quote the dark one for for a new smoke/fire install if thing go wrong?

 

[trev]

But Lucifer is the Prince Of Darkness
The lights won't work

 

[Rockingit]

Lights not working?! I'm a Sparky: ker-ching!

 

[darking]

I wonder in you could quote the dark one for for a new smoke/fire install if thing go wrong?

Trouble is he would fiddle the books

The devil went down to Georgia, he was looking for a soul to steal.He was in a bind 'cos he was way behind and he was willin' to make a deal.When he came across this young man sawin' on a fiddle and playin' it hot.

And the devil jumped upon a hickory stump and said: "Boy let me tell you what: "I guess you didn't know it, but I'm a fiddle player too. "And if you'd care to take a dare, I'll make a bet with you."Now you play a pretty good fiddle, boy, but give the devil his due:"I bet a fiddle of gold against your soul, 'cos I think I'm better than you.

"The boy said: "My name's Johnny and it might be a sin,"But I'll take your bet, your gonna regret, 'cos I'm the best that's ever been."Johnny you rosin up your bow and play your fiddle hard.'Cos hells broke loose in Georgia and the devil deals the cards.And if you win you get this shiny fiddle made of gold.But if you lose, the devil gets your soul.