Discuss Ring main. in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
No not really, a circuit originate from 1 OCPD, secondly it's not a "Ring Main" it's a Ring Final Circuit RFC, pedantic but correct terminology counts these days.Question I have is, is it ok to have x2 ring main circuits on one 32amp type B MCB??
If so does this meet the current regs.
TIA.
Yes I have the regs book, which states final circuits should be connected to a seperate way in the CU. But I've seen so many others argue this is OK??Two rings of a circuit, got the regs?
Yes I have the regs book, which states final circuits should be connected to a seperate way in the CU. But I've seen so many others argue this is OK??
I've come across this in the house I've just purchased. There's a spare way in the board I'll add another MCB and seperate them.No is the answer, you will overload the mcb
Are you adjusting a circuit or putting another one in and have no room in CU.
I'll reiterate, a circuit originates from an individual OCPD if some dipstick has decided to combine 2 RFCs into 1 circuit incorrectly then He / She needs to hang up their screwdrivers, and take up another Trade.Yes I have the regs book, which states final circuits should be connected to a seperate way in the CU. But I've seen so many others argue this is OK??
the chuckle brothers electrical. LolI've never seen many people argue that two lring finals one one MCB is a good idea.
I'm not saying it's correct just saying what I've seen. That's why I've asked the question to make sure its correct.I've never seen many people argue that two ring finals one one MCB is a good idea.
Thanks for the advice it is much appreciated?I'll reiterate, a circuit originates from an individual OCPD if some dipstick has decided to combine 2 RFCs into 1 circuit incorrectly then He / She needs to hang up their screwdrivers, and take up another Trade.
Well no then it isn'tI'm not saying it's correct just saying what I've seen. That's why I've asked the question to make sure its correct.
You are more than welcome MateI'm not saying it's correct just saying what I've seen. That's why I've asked the question to make sure its correct.
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Thanks for the advice it is much appreciated?
See description of a circuit in OSG or BS 7671I'm not saying it's correct just saying what I've seen. That's why I've asked the question to make sure its correct.
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Thanks for the advice it is much appreciated?
You could put more than one radial on a MCB but its not good practice.
2 Rings on 32mcb is dangerous are you sure it's not 2 radials?
2 rings would have four wires goinging into a MCB
Some people spur off a MCB maybe it was that - 3 wires?
It may not disagree with any regulations, but SC you surely can see the apparent dangers of applying such a circuit.I'm not saying I would do this because I wouldn't install like this, but I am going to play devils advocate.
Which regulations does such an arrangement breach?
And how would two ring final circuits installed in accordance with the regulations connected to the same 32A MCB be dangerous?
As I say I wouldn't do it, except as a temporary measure to restore supply, so I'm just curious about the thought process behind the statements.
Don't think you need a reg number SC look up the description of a circuit.@SparkyChick
I have been having similar thoughts,
I don't think its right, and its not something I would install as new.
however I have just been browsing the book, and nothing is jumping out to say I couldn't do it if I wanted to.
I think we can mostly all agree that it is certainly not best practice but if someone could point me to a reg number it would make me feel better.
It may not disagree with any regulations, but SC you surely can see the apparent dangers of applying such a circuit.
Don't think you need a reg number SC look up the description of a circuit.
You could put more than one radial on a MCB but its not good practice.
Tell me about it did think it would get so many mixed opinions! Always tell myself it doesn't hurt to have a second opinion on things and as I wasnt certain about this that's what I done. Thank you for the positive outlook and advice ?@JKMRK1Tell me about it did think it would get so many mixed opinions!@JKMRK1
wow, look what you have started here!!
I like the conversation thread,
you are listed as a trainee, when you get your qualifications you will be a qualified electrician. just look at the different ways the regs have been interpreted and peoples opinions on what is good, bad and indifferent practice.
as your time and experience in the trade expands, you will start to build an idea of what is a good installation and will also be more opinionated about what is not ok.
bottom line for me when I consider things that are not accurately defined, would I be happy if this was installed at my daughters house?
it normally guides my mind in the right direction.
Always tell myself it doesn't hurt to have a second opinion on things and as I wasnt certain about this that's what I done.
Thank you for the positive outlook and advice ?
wow, look what you have started here!!
I like the conversation thread,
you are listed as a trainee, when you get your qualifications you will be a qualified electrician. just look at the different ways the regs have been interpreted and peoples opinions on what is good, bad and indifferent practice.
as your time and experience in the trade expands, you will start to build an idea of what is a good installation and will also be more opinionated about what is not ok.
bottom line for me when I consider things that are not accurately defined, would I be happy if this was installed at my daughters house?
it normally guides my mind in the right direction.
It would depend on an informed engineering judgement as to whether the conductors were securely terminated for me.Just a point.
Two rings or not, in general, what are FIRST thoughts on four (or more) cables in a circuit breaker terminal, whilst carrying out an EICR?
How long is a piece of string, maybe?
Just a point.
Two rings or not, in general, what are FIRST thoughts on four (or more) cables in a circuit breaker terminal, whilst carrying out an EICR?
How long is a piece of string, maybe?
It says to me that things have probably been done on a tight budget, i.e. the consumer unit has not got enough ways for what they want to supply.
look out for other things that may have been overlooked!
I dont think you have got mixed opinions, nobody has said this is anything other than bad practice. But the question concerns regulations, and as yet nobody has given an actual regulation that this breaches, and throwing hands up in horror does not count as a regulation.Tell me about it did think it would get so many mixed opinions! Always tell myself it doesn't hurt to have a second opinion on things and as I wasnt certain about this that's what I done. Thank you for the positive outlook and advice ?
But there's a spare way in this particular CU.
You couldn't, because by definition it would be one radial.You could put more than one radial on a MCB but its not good practice.
How is it dangerous, apart from the potential issue with the four conductors in the terminals/cage clamp (which although crap is unlikely to be an issue in real terms)?2 Rings on 32mcb is dangerous are you sure it's not 2 radials?
Still, tight budget could also mean tight on time, not got another breaker in the box?
never mind, its Friday the pub is open, just stick it in the other breaker and we are out of here!!
when you see an obvious short cut like that it makes me look for others.
I fully agree that this is incorrect and should not have been done.
But having said that what are the apparent dangers? I don't see any particular danger attributable to this.
The definition of a circuit is based around everything that is connected to a single way in a distribution board, so this would still count as one circuit, although it is nom-standard.
Just a point.
Two rings or not, in general, what are FIRST thoughts on four (or more) cables in a circuit breaker terminal, whilst carrying out an EICR?
How long is a piece of string, maybe?
right or wrong what's the common response to finding a Ring on a 20A MCB or wired in 4mm??
You could probably make sure on that if reconnecting after testing. Available breaker? Terminal and c/b condition? Circuit condition? General install condition?It would depend on an informed engineering judgement as to whether the conductors were securely terminated for me.
Ugly but not dangerous. This circuit, not me (but close enough)
In terms of overload you can overstress the 32A MCB on a ring with only 4 items plugged in, so unless this was conjoining two rings that had been chosen to separate high-demand loads it is not really any worse than a bigger single ring.
What is curious is why was this done? The OP says there is one slot free so probably this was a temporary fix for a failed MCB that has become permanent.
Hey, be careful! You don't know who's lurking.Ugly but not dangerous.
Both are rare but not in any way dangerous.right or wrong what's the common response to finding a Ring on a 20A MCB or wired in 4mm??
Yeah my first Response to OP questions was NO! this is Dangerous but thinking about it can't really find how although A break in 2 rings would be very bad.Both are rare but not in any way dangerous.
4mm is needed if the end-to-end length is over about 106m, but on a multi-floor building you could have a fair amount of that used up in the CU-to-floor run up and down so it need not be a ridiculously large area covered.
I have seen 20A BS3036 rewireable fuses used for the ring before so there may be some historic reason for that, and it is quite possible that a CU upgrade just copied the existing fuses with the nearest MCB.
The Best Practice Guide #4 has various things mentioned that are departures or non-compliance with the standard that are not unsafe so don't merit a code.But then looking at it the other way round 20A or 4mm that's actually safer but not considered standard - so what response would this cause.
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