Self employed income support scheme

[davesparks]

I don't think anyone has posted this yet, there is now an online gov.uk site to check your eligibility for the self employment support scheme.
You need your UTR and NI number then it will tell you if you are eligible, if you are then you go through a form to prove your identity using driving licence or passport info and then add your contact details so that they can let you know when you can make a claim.

I don't know if they are giving people different dates/times when they can make their claims to avoid overwhelming the system, but I've done it now to get in at the beginning of the queue if they are doing it first come/first served style.

Link here:

Enter your Self Assessment Unique Taxpayer Reference (UTR) - Self-Employment Income Support Scheme - GOV.UK

www.tax.service.gov.uk

 

[Risteard]

It's telling me from 8am on the 15th May to file a claim. I presume the position is still that it won't be paid until June.

 

[buzzlightyear]

I was looking on line about it ,I have sent the government a invoice for 10 bit coins regarding the work I have lost .if I dont get that then I will send a invoice to the Chinese and dont want it paying in panda monies neither .
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It's telling me from 8am on the 15th May to file a claim. I presume the position is still that it won't be paid until June.

they are leaving it to the last minute just in case it goes beyond july .

 

[Andy78]

I've done it earlier this morning, but it didn't give me a time or date, just said something like "thank you for your enquiry" with no options to navigate forward.

Plenty of time yet to be disappointed anyway.

 

[happysteve]

"Claim from midday 14 May" for me. I said I was with davesparks, so they let me jump ahead of Risteard

 

[Risteard]

You need your UTR and NI number then it will tell you if you are eligible, if you are then you go through a form to prove your identity using driving licence or passport info and then add your contact details so that they can let you know when you can make a claim.

Incidentally it just took an e-mail address and mobile number from me. I wasn't asked for either driving licence or passport details.

 

[davesparks]

Incidentally it just took an e-mail address and mobile number from me. I wasn't asked for either driving licence or passport details.

Had you confirmed your identity with the government gateway service before?

It may be that I had problems getting through the confirm identity thing a few weeks ago and so it did it now.
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It's telling me from 8am on the 15th May to file a claim. I presume the position is still that it won't be paid until June.

I was given the same date and time and it said payments will be made 6 days after application.
I can't remember exactly where it said that though.

 

[Risteard]

Had you confirmed your identity with the government gateway service before?

It may be that I had problems getting through the confirm identity thing a few weeks ago and so it did it now.

Not that I recall. But I can't state definitively that I never did. I'm relatively certain that I've never provided those documents/document numbers before though.

 

[davesparks]

"Claim from midday 14 May" for me. I said I was with davesparks, so they let me jump ahead of Risteard

You're ahead of me too!

I got the same time/date as Risteard, maybe the date allocation is a bit more random,
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Not that I recall. But I can't state definitively that I never did. I'm relatively certain that I've never provided those documents/document numbers before though.

Do you use the government gateway system regularly or for tax schemes etc?
I leave mine to the accountant so haven't ever logged in to it since I first set it up so that's probably why.

 

[Risteard]

You're ahead of me too!

I got the same time/date as Risteard, maybe the date allocation is a bit more random,
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Do you use the government gateway system regularly or for tax schemes etc?
I leave mine to the accountant so haven't ever logged in to it since I first set it up so that's probably why.

I use it for self-assessment. So perhaps that could be the explanation. I don't have an agent setup on it.

 

[littlespark]

I filled this in (my UTR and NI) but it said I wasn’t eligible. Why might that be?

The business is a partnership between my wife and I... She has a part time job that’s been furloughed.
I have had 2 full years trading, and had my returns in on time. The only thing that it might be is that for those 2 years I hadn’t made enough to pay tax and received a tax rebate. (From tax my wife had paid)
I won’t know how much UC I’m getting until 14th May.

 

[davesparks]

It's telling me from 8am on the 15th May to file a claim. I presume the position is still that it won't be paid until June.

payments are expected to be 6 days after application, see here:

[Withdrawn] Check if you can claim a grant through the Self-Employment Income Support Scheme

If you're self-employed or a member of a partnership and have been impacted by coronavirus (COVID-19) find out if you can use this scheme to claim a grant.

www.gov.uk

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I filled this in (my UTR and NI) but it said I wasn’t eligible. Why might that be?

The business is a partnership between my wife and I... She has a part time job that’s been furloughed.
I have had 2 full years trading, and had my returns in on time. The only thing that it might be is that for those 2 years I hadn’t made enough to pay tax and received a tax rebate. (From tax my wife had paid)
I won’t know how much UC I’m getting until 14th May.

If you have received a tax rebate then that suggests you may have made a loss on paper, or at least for the first year (i think most of us did/do in the first year)?
If you have made a loss then your average profits over the last 3 years (2 years in your case) may well be a negative number. As the grants are based on average income then if your income is zero or less then you wont get anything.

You will still be able to claim UC for as long as your income is reduced.

 

[Risteard]

I filled this in (my UTR and NI) but it said I wasn’t eligible. Why might that be?

The business is a partnership between my wife and I... She has a part time job that’s been furloughed.
I have had 2 full years trading, and had my returns in on time. The only thing that it might be is that for those 2 years I hadn’t made enough to pay tax and received a tax rebate. (From tax my wife had paid)
I won’t know how much UC I’m getting until 14th May.

Presumably the Self-Employed scheme does not include partnerships, which are probably covered by the furlough scheme.

 

[davesparks]

Presumably the Self-Employed scheme does not include partnerships, which are probably covered by the furlough scheme.

It does include partnerships,

 

[Midwest]

Out of interest, are these schemes some sort of loans that you have to pay back in the fullness of time, or are they paid back through your tax returns etc?

 

[littlespark]

Out of interest, are these schemes some sort of loans that you have to pay back in the fullness of time, or are they paid back through your tax returns etc?

It’s labelled as a grant. (Not a loan)
and I think everyone will be paying for this for some time with increases in tax across the board.

 

[Risteard]

Out of interest, are these schemes some sort of loans that you have to pay back in the fullness of time, or are they paid back through your tax returns etc?

As @littlespark points out it is a grant.

It is, however, taxable income.

 

[Baddegg]

I assume you’ll just have to declare it on 20-21 tax return as income and pay tax as relevant......the bigger question of repayment as a whole can only be higher taxes in the future...

 

[buzzlightyear]

The monies the government has given away
to company's ferlong they staff they will need to put the taxes up and vat and I don't blame them, its better to do that having a lot of peaple on the dole.

 

[Risteard]

they will need to put the taxes up and vat

The problem with that is that putting VAT up would have exactly the wrong effect when trying to encourage people to spend again. To revive the economy decreasing VAT would be more sensible than increasing it.

 

[Bob Geldoff1234]

It really all depends on how much your yearly profit is as to how much your going to get.So if your profit is only £5000 per year then 80% of £5000 is £4000.Divided by 12 is £333.33.Times that by the 3 months they are allowing you is £1000.

So if you have not been to work for the 3 months that they are allowing you then the money the government give you will equate out to £83 a week.
Not to be sneezed at but hardly a big enough amount to live on.

Obviously if you have paid more tax then you'll get more.

 

[Andy78]

It really all depends on how much your yearly profit is as to how much your going to get.So if your profit is only £5000 per year then 80% of £5000 is £4000.Divided by 12 is £333.33.Times that by the 3 months they are allowing you is £1000.

So if you have not been to work for the 3 months that they are allowing you then the money the government give you will equate out to £83 a week.
Not to be sneezed at but hardly a big enough amount to live on.

Obviously if you have paid more tax then you'll get more.

In addition to that the grants are not dependant on you having a lack of work. It was made clear when these were announced you could continue to work and still claim the grant.

The payments are based on your last three years tax returns worked out as a monthly average, multiplied by 80%, with a maximum payment of £2500 a month.

 

[mattg4321]

You have to confirm your business has been adversely affected by coronavirus.

There's no further guidance on this, but it's assumed that if your profits are even a few £ lower than normal you'll qualify. If you've made more this year then you won't - however unlikely that is.

LINK

 

[Andy78]

You have to confirm your business has been adversely affected by coronavirus.

There's no further guidance on this, but it's assumed that if your profits are even a few £ lower than normal you'll qualify. If you've made more this year then you won't - however unlikely that is.

LINK

It's a weird one for sure. How do I collect evidence of no work ?

I could show them my tax return that will only be available to file in 11 months time ?

 

[Risteard]

It's a weird one for sure. How do I collect evidence of no work ?

I could show them my tax return that will only be available to file in 11 months time ?

It's just a simple declaration. As you allude to, a rather pointless one at that.

 

[littlespark]

Ok, I got a reply back from my accountant stating this.....

"In relation to your query, I think the reason you are not eligible may be due to your self-employment profits not being more than 50% of your total taxable income....."

Someone want to translate that into English for me....

Not so fast, Buzz...

 

[buzzlightyear]

you are not eligible may be due to your self-employment profits not being more than 50% of your total taxable income....."

What they are saying king midus you did not put any monies in the pot, keeped it to your self. Lol

 

[littlespark]

I’ve paid plenty into the pot over the years, sometimes at the high rate.

UC better be worth my while claiming

 

[davesparks]

Ok, I got a reply back from my accountant stating this.....

"In relation to your query, I think the reason you are not eligible may be due to your self-employment profits not being more than 50% of your total taxable income....."

Someone want to translate that into English for me....

Not so fast, Buzz...

The grant is only available to those people who have a self employed income which makes up more than 50% of their total income for a tax year.

 

[Midwest]

The grant is only available to those people who have a self employed income which makes up more than 50% of their total income for a tax year.

I would of got jack pohh then!

 

[Baddegg]

You have to confirm your business has been adversely affected by coronavirus.

There's no further guidance on this, but it's assumed that if your profits are even a few £ lower than normal you'll qualify. If you've made more this year then you won't - however unlikely that is.

LINK

Far as I’m aware it’s nothing uk do with profits and loss....if your income from self employment comprises more than 50% of your normal income and you’ve been trading a predetermined period you qualify even if you’ve continued working during this period you can still claim, it’ll just affect this year’s profits, if you’ve adhered to the rules (vague as they are to some) and stayed at home then the amount you receive will be an average of 3 months in 3 years, not perfect but to be fair how else could they do it, other than a bit sooner ? so if you’ve carried one working and claim the grant you’ll potentially pay a bit more tax next year...

 

[buzzlightyear]

I will wait till and see if the bank of England to grant. Me any monies for the profits I made I the last 3 years in which equate to 0
My profits have gone in holidays, fast donkeys, cramped out cars and beers. Lol.

 

[suffolkspark]

Just done it and it says 8am 13th May ?

 

[Zerax]

My profits have gone in holidays, fast donkeys, cramped out cars and beers. Lol.

...and did you squander the rest ?

 

[davesparks]

Far as I’m aware it’s nothing uk do with profits and loss....if your income from self employment comprises more than 50% of your normal income and you’ve been trading a predetermined period you qualify even if you’ve continued working during this period you can still claim, it’ll just affect this year’s profits, if you’ve adhered to the rules (vague as they are to some) and stayed at home then the amount you receive will be an average of 3 months in 3 years, not perfect but to be fair how else could they do it, other than a bit sooner ? so if you’ve carried one working and claim the grant you’ll potentially pay a bit more tax next year...

To qualify for the grant your income must have been adversely affected, it's not available to self employed people who's income has not been adversely affected.

See here:

[Withdrawn] Check if you can claim a grant through the Self-Employment Income Support Scheme

If you're self-employed or a member of a partnership and have been impacted by coronavirus (COVID-19) find out if you can use this scheme to claim a grant.

www.gov.uk

 

[Baddegg]

To qualify for the grant your income must have been adversely affected, it's not available to self employed people who's income has not been adversely affected.

See here:

[Withdrawn] Check if you can claim a grant through the Self-Employment Income Support Scheme

If you're self-employed or a member of a partnership and have been impacted by coronavirus (COVID-19) find out if you can use this scheme to claim a grant.

www.gov.uk

Point being though Dave how will they/you know your income has been adversely affected untill next April?....if anyone compares to this period last year you’ve probably been affected to some degree, conversely if I’m doing a large build with staged payments that are not due till June for instance then it will still look like I’ve earned nothing for this period....but self employed work 12 months to 12 months so all qualify at this point

 

[davesparks]

Point being though Dave how will they know your income has been adversely affected untill next April?....so all qualify at this point

Only those adversely affected qualify for it as stated.
If you are not adversely affected and you apply, stating that you have been, then that doesn't mean you qualify, it means you've lied and committed fraud.

They will likely look at declared profits in the future to check that people didn't claim the grant fraudulently.

 

[Baddegg]

Only those adversely affected qualify for it as stated.
If you are not adversely affected and you apply, stating that you have been, then that doesn't mean you qualify, it means you've lied and committed fraud.

They will likely look at declared profits in the future to check that people didn't claim the grant fraudulently.

Agian that’s my point Dave.....no one will know they’ve been affected untill next April......so if there’s a massive job comes in later in the year pushing up profits have I lied that I was skint in April? At that point someone would most definitely have been adversely affected surely?

 

[davesparks]

Agian that’s my point Dave.....no one will know they’ve been affected untill next April......so if there’s a massive job comes in later in the year pushing up profits have I lied that I was skint in April? At that point someone would most definitely have been adversely affected surely?

Yes someone will know, the person who applies will know if they have been adversely affected or not, and they will make the declaration to say that they have.

If you get a massive job that makes up for the months of reduced income, and it's significant enough to be noticed by HMRC then when they carry out an investigation and look at your records they will see that you were adversely affected because it will be obvious from your records.

 

[Baddegg]

Yes someone will know, the person who applies will know if they have been adversely affected or not, and they will make the declaration to say that they have.

If you get a massive job that makes up for the months of reduced income, and it's significant enough to be noticed by HMRC then when they carry out an investigation and look at your records they will see that you were adversely affected because it will be obvious from your records.

Yes mate obvious from my records next April......not a lot of use now to either the self employed of the tax man...so on the flip side all the furloughed wages the government is picking up.....assuming these people return to work and do lots of overtime to catch up you could say they’ve not been affected either?....

 

[davesparks]

Yes mate obvious from my records next April......not a lot of use now to either the self employed of the tax man...so on the flip side all the furloughed wages the government is picking up.....assuming these people return to work and do lots of overtime to catch up you could say they’ve not been affected either?....

What do you mean its not a lot of use now?
Self employed people know now whether they have been affected or not, there's no way you can not know if you currently being affected.

The furlough scheme has nothing to do with this?

 

[Baddegg]

What do you mean its not a lot of use now?
Self employed people know now whether they have been affected or not, there's no way you can not know if you currently being affected.

The furlough scheme has nothing to do with this?

My point is all can claim the grant, you disagreed,I think you are saying they can’t unless adversely affected, I then make the point that on a yearly accounting basis it won’t actually show you were affected for that specific period as with simplified accounting at least it’s just an annual profit to pay tax on, so on that basis can any self employed person genuinely claim to have been affected?.....obviously we all have to some degree but all to different percentages ie some people will have lost a 100% of they income and someone else may have lost 14% over this lockdown period, but you can’t claim for a percentage you just claim for adversely affected, so my opinion is as before all claim and the amount will be added to 20-21 tax year and relevant tax paid on it.....what I think I’m saying is there is absolutely no way for either side to prove to what degree they were affected during this period.....the furlough scheme was just me trying to prove a point that the government is happy (doubtful) to pay the 80% but will make no effort to claim it back, or a percentage off,if the recipients earnings are bigger this year than last which means on paper at least they were no worse of, financially at least, from this situation.......bad example perhaps but it made sense in my head ?

 

[davesparks]

My point is all can claim the grant, you disagreed,I think you are saying they can’t unless adversely affected, I then make the point that on a yearly accounting basis it won’t actually show you were affected for that specific period as with simplified accounting at least it’s just an annual profit to pay tax on, so on that basis can any self employed person genuinely claim to have been affected?.....obviously we all have to some degree but all to different percentages ie some people will have lost a 100% of they income and someone else may have lost 14% over this lockdown period, but you can’t claim for a percentage you just claim for adversely affected, so my opinion is as before all claim and the amount will be added to 20-21 tax year and relevant tax paid on it.....what I think I’m saying is there is absolutely no way for either side to prove to what degree they were affected during this

Your tax return doesn't need to show that you were affected, however if it appears that your profits have increased and you have claimed the grant HMRC are likely to investigate and actually look at your accounts to see why.

Not everyone has been adversely affected, some people will have increased profits, for example undertakers and associated trades, carers and others.

My point is that only those who have been adversely affected are allowed to claim the grant, you make a declaration that your income has been adversely affected, if it has not then you are committing fraud.
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If you claim now because your income is down then your claim is legitimate, if your profits increase in December then your claim now is still legitimate.

If you are investigated they will see that your profits were down at the time you made the claim and that should be the end of it, the claim is genuine

 

[Midwest]

Why don’t you guys ask your accountants to clarify your position.

I know you gonna say I ain’t got one.

 

[Baddegg]

Why don’t you guys ask your accountants to clarify your position.

I know you gonna say I ain’t got one.

I did...,,they don’t know either ?

 

[davesparks]

Why don’t you guys ask your accountants to clarify your position.

I know you gonna say I ain’t got one.

They don't know yet generally, they only have the same information as is available to us.
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Accountants can probably be added to the list of people who are earning more than usual at the moment!

 

[Zerax]

...be noticed by HMRC then when they carry out an investigation and look at your records they will see that you were adversely affected because it will be obvious from your records.

You have a far higher opinion of HMRC than most I think. As a good, honest, law abiding taxpayer, I would love to believe that they would do some checking.

Sadly, the reality is somewhat different... I know of many investigations that result in no additional demands/penalties with very obvious things missed and ignored.

This is going to be made even worse with several million claims in the system and with any disgruntled perpetrators just needing to whine to the left wing press about how unfair it is !

Personally, I would be astonished if any grants are requested to ever be repaid, regardless of how they were claimed...

 

[buzzlightyear]

.and did you squander the rest

yes I did to the winos that wait outside mc Donald's s holding a placard asking to help them ,for gods sake if you want food and wine stand on the corner of the red light district.
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I have just got in having spoken to a cloths line engineer to you aerial man and he said I can not wait around I can not wait till this blows over my phone has stopped ringing .
I asked are you going to claim ,he said I did not make enough profits over the years .
so you are in the same boat has other people then .

 

[ipf]

Submitted claim and grant awarded today. Payment within the next 6 days.
If we have a bad year (no doubt for the vast majority) it's probably gonna have to come in for paying last years tax .
But it's better than nothing and gonna help, for sure.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Submitted claim and grant awarded today. Payment within the next 6 days.
If we have a bad year (no doubt for the vast majority) it's probably gonna have to come in for paying last years tax .
But it's better than nothing and gonna help, for sure.

I did to day and awarded some, the tax man said the gold bullion will be with you in the next 6 days , so how the hell they going to post that thorough the letter box. Lol.