Socket and switch heights

[oracle]

A rewire is a new installation and not an alteration to an existing installation. End of story.

Put your hand on your heart and repeat after me "I being the person responsible for the design, construction and inspection and testing of the electrical installation...

....having exercised reasonable care when carrying out (the above) certify that the work that I have been responsible for is to the best of my knowledge and belief in accordance with BS7671 2018, except for the departures, if any, detailed below.

Details of the departures from BS7671 2018 (Regulations 120.3 and 133.5)

The extent of the liability of the signatory is limited to the work described above as the subject of this Certificate."

Amen

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Part M has a whole raft of requirements for new builds and alterations to existing buildings (all based upon anti-discrimination laws).
The vast majority of them relate to non-domestic properties.

With new build dwellings where the end user is not known, the property has to be designed to accommodate all (to avoid discrimination).
Where the end user is known, their preferences take precedence.

Think of it like this:
If a wheelchair user asked you to rewire a property and asked for all the sockets to be at 9” from the floor, would you refuse and site them at 450mm, as that’s the height recommended for disabled persons?

Edit:
Part M is not part of BS7671.

 

[oracle]

Being a mobility scooter user myself I take your point. Although some of the other people said no limitations or departures, in my previous post I offered both, straight off the front of the EIC.
One of them is shown below.

120.3 This Standard sets out technical requirements to enable electrical installations to conform with the fundamental principles of Chapter 13, as follows: Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 Part 7 Assessment of general characteristics Protection for safety Selection and erection of equipment Inspection and testing Special installations or locations.

Any intended DEPARTURE from these Parts requires special consideration by the designer of the installation and shall be RECORDED on the appropriate electrical certification specified in Part 6. The resulting degree of safety of the installation shall be not less than that obtained by compliance with the Regulations.

So the short answer is yes, I can do this, but I must record it as a departure.

 

[johnduffell]

So the short answer is yes, I can do this, but I must record it as a departure.

compliance or otherwise with Part M of the statutory building regs is entirely unrelated to compliance with BS7671.

Details of the departures from BS7671 2018

therefore recording that as a departure would be incorrect, as there is no BS7671 reg that you have not followed.

 

[oracle]

compliance or otherwise with Part M of the statutory building regs is entirely unrelated to compliance with BS7671.

therefore recording that as a departure would be incorr88ect, as there is no BS7671 reg that you have not followed.

I beg to differ, Reg 722.55.101.5 clearly states "The lowest part of any socket outlet shall be placed at a height of 0.5 to 1.5 m from the ground.
NOTE The requirements of the National Building Regulations should be adhered to in respect of socket outlet heights."

So there you have it, it's a departure, one way or another, and must be recorded.

 

[Octopus]

I beg to differ, Reg 722.55.101.5 clearly states "The lowest part of any socket outlet shall be placed at a height of 0.5 to 1.5 m from the ground.
NOTE The requirements of the National Building Regulations should be adhered to in respect of socket outlet heights."

So there you have it, it's a departure, one way or another, and must be recorded.

That’s a section on car charging points so a big disagree

 

[oracle]

The point I was making is he caregorically said that Part M is entirely unrelated to compliance with BS7671 and I am showing him that he is wrong.

Vehicle charging points are defined in the Regs as street furniture. Reg 110 .1.1.
The note in this Reg is a general one referring to the Building Regulations.

 

[johnduffell]

Maybe I am wrong, but

1. not sure why car chargers come into it
2. that note is just pointing out that bs7671 doesn't overrule building regs in general, presumably to prevent confusion where building regs are stricter
3. you can't have a deviation from building regulations as they are statutory laws
4. although you do have to comply with part M on any material alteration to the accessories, you would achieve compliance as long as you don't make the situation worse than it was

but if the above four were all otherwise, yes you would be able to put it as a deviation.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Car charging point 500mm to 1500mm.
Part M 450mm to 1200mm.

 

[telectrix]

deleted

 

[telectrix]

deleted

 

[oracle]

I've looked at things from both sides now,
From in and out, but still somehow it's to the Regs I bow
(Apologies to Joni Mitchell)

Reg 553.01.06 "A socket-outlet on a wall or similar structure shall be mounted at a height above the floor or any working surface to minimize the risk of mechanical damage to the socket outlet or to an associated plug and its flexible cord which might be caused during insertion, use or withdrawal of the plug."

Part M of the Building Regulations (section 8) does not actually specify the required position but does go on to suggest that in habitable rooms this will be achieved by mounting the switches etc. between 45cm and 1.2m above the floor level.

Thank you all for helping me to rethink the whole thing. It's been interesting to see from the other persons side.

 

[telectrix]

sometime s the problems come from ill-educated building inspectors. i once had a pratt insisted that cables fixed on a wall that was to be dry-lined must have capping.

 

[Fitzy]

I recently had this discussion with a guy on my crew at work who does kitchen renovations. Last year he did a kitchen refit for another crew member and he insisted that all the new sockets in the kitchen and new dinning room had to be at the ‘new build’ heights, so the customer has sockets at one end of the dinning room about 250-300mm from the floor and the other end they’re all at minimum of 450mm from the floor, there’s even 2 double sockets which are roughly 3ft from each other, 1 at 250mm & the other at 450mm, but he still insists that’s what ‘the rules say’, but based on some other photos I’ve seen, I don’t think he’s ever even owned a Lego set in his life.

 

[telectrix]

I recently had this discussion with a guy on my crew at work who does kitchen renovations. Last year he did a kitchen refit for another crew member and he insisted that all the new sockets in the kitchen and new dinning room had to be at the ‘new build’ heights, so the customer has sockets at one end of the dinning room about 250-300mm from the floor and the other end they’re all at minimum of 450mm from the floor, there’s even 2 double sockets which are roughly 3ft from each other, 1 at 250mm & the other at 450mm, but he still insists that’s what ‘the rules say’, but based on some other photos I’ve seen, I don’t think he’s ever even owned a Lego set in his life.

he's a pr1ck.