Standards Manager? HSE

[SirusDvirus]

Are they all cocks or is it just the one that works here?....:fuk2:...
Yes I'm having a bad day

 

[telectrix]

Please expand on that.

 

[SirusDvirus]

Got this new bloke title 'standards manager' but H&S..5th one we've had in 2 years...the last H&S person we had set out a generic risk assessment that covers any maintenance we need to do but he's come in and torn everything up as it 'Does not comply' Now I have to do a Risk Assessment before I do anything that has to be countersigned by me, my supervisor,production manager, managing director and then when I have all the signatures He can sign it to say I can carry out the task..then before I start the task I have to do a 'take 5' which is another short generic risk assessment for pre task safety and type these up that also doesn't include the method statement I need to complete if I'm working on heavy machinery :S

 

[telectrix]

bonkers.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Does any work ever get done at your place?!?!

 

[SirusDvirus]

Yeh..we wait till he's Fked off as he's only here 3 days but he follows us around like a limpet..good greif!!!..
" if any of those boxes aint ticked you dont do the task..gotta protect the stupid!! "....I'm gonna swing for him I swear..lol!

 

[Silly Sausage]

....I'm gonna swing for him I swear..lol!

Haha...."We didn't see anything Officer, he must have tripped over his shoelaces..." :wink_smile:

 

[Spoon]

He's a new guy, probably trying to justify why he has the job. He will be finding more and more things for you to sign. He will also have to cover his arse now as he will get the blame if there are any accidents and there isn't a encyclopaedia of H&S paper work filled out, in triplicate.

 

[ian.settle1]

Have to agree with tearing up the generic RA that covers every job as it would need to be 50 pages long to cover everything.

But have to have 5 signatures for a RA is bonkers

 

[SirusDvirus]

Trouble is the H&S in this place has got so stupid that if we need contractors in they tend to run away screaming with the mere thought never to darken our factory again unless the rumours of alien abduction are true :S

 

[Gage]

I'd just tell the MD to sort the mess out because his machines aren't getting fixed. And if he didn't care then I'd know he was also missing a chromosome, and leave.

 

[Marvo]

Tell the MD you need an assistant to sort out the paperwork so you can go get the work done. If no assistant is forthcoming then just play the game but keep a full log of how much time it's consuming and keep bringing it to their attention until something gives.

 

[ferg]

Or you could just wait it out.
Eventually he'll be buried by a paperwork avalanche

 

[UNG]

Why is it some of these H & S bods have to big up their job and impose some impossible working practices to justify their existence and their impotence.
Been on a few sites where we added a chunk of money on the quote to accommodate the buggeration factor and downtime caused by their H & S man on one site it was close to +100% of the base job cost

The best one I came across was the building services manager at a London college, we were installing a data radio link between the two college sites and at one end we wanted to use the cell mast on the roof for our antenna after some lengthy negotiations with the cell operators regional H&S man and a 90 page fax we were getting nowhere we decided on an alternative mounting method for our antenna and spoke to the building manager who told us that we were wasting our time talking to the cell operator H&S man as his previous job was at that college and he had been fired because no repair work was done in the 2 1/2 years he was there because of his onerous H&S needs. He was so popular with the building manager that if he ever came to site the building manager would throw him off the roof just to see if he had done the correct risk assessment

The one guy it really backfired on was one that suggested I was a two bit contractor (he worked for Serco facilities management) I did a site risk assessment and told him to be on site with the keys at 5:30am the following day so I could get all my kit in without disrupting site and to avoid any possible problems moving kit within the public areas to the roof he didn't like it but had no choice as I had got other people involved because of his arsy attitude and everybody saw it made sense he tried to give us keys but I insisted that he needed to be on site to oversee the kit movement. Strange but over the next few days install we never had a problem with him my parting comment to him was I can be arsy too

 

[TommyM]

I think its just the world we live in these days. H & S gone mad.

 

[Hants-Spark]

Not saying its right or wrong, but I've worked on MOD sites and the amount of paperwork you have to go through is ridiculous, saying that, unfortunately people have accidents (hopefully not to serious) and when that happens one of the first things that goes through there mind is compensation. The paper trail you are talking about then attempts to demonstrate that the company has looked at all foreseeable scenarios, trained you to use all tools/climb ladders etc etc etc and in their eyes shows a court of law/solicitor that they have taken actions to mitigate any accidents occurring and basically covers their arse from prosecution. You get used to it and as mentioned above you allow for it when pricing work, but I do agree it can get very frustrating. By the way I agree a generic RA is no good to man or beast.

 

[UNG]

unfortunately people have accidents (hopefully not to serious) and when that happens one of the first things that goes through there mind is compensation.

The first thing is who can I blame because I've done something an idiot would do

The paper trail you are talking about then attempts to demonstrate that the company has looked at all foreseeable scenarios, trained you to use all tools/climb ladders etc etc etc and in their eyes shows a court of law/solicitor that they have taken actions to mitigate any accidents occurring and basically covers their arse from prosecution.

Unfortunately there is no training course for common sense as if it was applied a lot of H&S problems would disappear. Since the blame / claim solicitors appeared there has been a move away from the early days of H&S where everyone was their own safety officer to a situation where the employer is left to carry the can for an employees stupidity

You get used to it and as mentioned above you allow for it when pricing work, but I do agree it can get very frustrating. By the way I agree a generic RA is no good to man or beast.

H&S is frustrating when you have someone on site who blocks some methods of working due to a lack of knowledge on their part. Most risk assessments have a generic element as no job is 100% different to the previous job in some cases it is easier to work with a generic RA and append a site specific to it

 

[Hants-Spark]

UNG I get the impression you think all accidents are caused by lack of common sense and stupidity, yes most probably are but as I said it doesn't stop people from trying to claim. I've known people to get compensation for cycling down a hole which has been cordoned off and blinking lights around it, what more could you do? But they got money, and several thousands at that. H&S may have gone mad but are people getting more and more stupid? Who knows lol. If this particular H&S is that bad then he will soon be discovered but in general it is there for a reason and that is to protect the people who are sometimes surrounded by idiots

 

[UNG]

UNG I get the impression you think all accidents are caused by lack of common sense and stupidity, yes most probably are but as I said it doesn't stop people from trying to claim. I've known people to get compensation for cycling down a hole which has been cordoned off and blinking lights around it, what more could you do? But they got money, and several thousands at that. H&S may have gone mad but are people getting more and more stupid? Who knows lol. If this particular H&S is that bad then he will soon be discovered but in general it is there for a reason and that is to protect the people who are sometimes surrounded by idiots

The fact that people will attempt something without knowledge, training or any research shows stupidity and a lack of common sense that there actions may result in an incident

Every risk assessment shows that common sense is not that common any more having to include the obvious things like wearing gloves and safety specs for some tasks is just one example

I also believe that there are professional idiots who look for claim opportunities and make a career out of it as it beats working

Health and Safety is a bit like the EU it has totally lost sight of it's original aims and has been taken over by myriad of rules, misinterpretations, misunderstandings and ignorant jobsworths , everybody should be their own safety officer it is unfortunate that idiots are never held to account for their actions or stupidity because they have learnt that some one else is always to blame for any incident that causes them injury or loss

When I was an employer I had a claim made against me because one of my employees snapped his achilles tendon doing something he was told not to I have first hand experience of being in the firing line and what the caused the incident would not have been covered in any RA I would also point out that the employee had an IOSH qualification so even those who should no better can cause a problem of their own making and try to blame some one else

 

[Hants-Spark]

The fact that people will attempt something without knowledge, training or any research shows stupidity and a lack of common sense that there actions may result in an incident
It may show a lack of common sense or even the character to say no but there have been many instances when the employee has carried out a job because his boss has asked even if he felt it unsafe on the pretext of not wanting to be seen as a negative.
Every risk assessment shows that common sense is not that common any more having to include the obvious things like wearing gloves and safety specs for some tasks is just one example
So have you never seen people drilling/grinding etc without goggles?
I also believe that there are professional idiots who look for claim opportunities and make a career out of it as it beats working
There have been incidents even in our local supermarket where people have deliberately got themselves injured by trollies etc and made a claim against them.
Health and Safety is a bit like the EU it has totally lost sight of it's original aims and has been taken over by myriad of rules, misinterpretations, misunderstandings and ignorant jobsworths , everybody should be their own safety officer it is unfortunate that idiots are never held to account for their actions or stupidity because they have learnt that some one else is always to blame for any incident that causes them injury or loss
I agree but again it is there to protect the individual as well as the employee, unfortunately people take and advantage and try there luck.
When I was an employer I had a claim made against me because one of my employees snapped his achilles tendon doing something he was told not to I have first hand experience of being in the firing line and what the caused the incident would not have been covered in any RA I would also point out that the employee had an IOSH qualification so even those who should no better can cause a problem of their own making and try to blame some one else

Point proven. I don't disagree with most of what you say but to say that accidents only happen through stupidity is a bit unjustified, we are all human and accidents do happen for whatever reason, RA/Method Statements etc etc are there to make people aware of the hazards and hopefully prevent them from happening, its not a guarantee.