Taking over abandoned notifiable job

[timhoward]

I'm sure this isn't the first time this has happened, but I've never encountered it before.
The situation is a house extension partially built. Clients have fallen out with builder/PM who have walked off the job three months ago.
An unknown sparks working for the builder has already done some electrical work including changing the consumer unit (Fusebox unit at least), some new circuits have been 1st and 2nd fixed, some (including the shower) only first fixed. At first glance it looks like good work. Decorating has been completed in some rooms.

I'm now being asked to assess where things got to and finish off. At this point no paperwork exists for the current work and I'm not hopeful of getting any. Nothing has been notified yet. The customer will ultimately need a building regs certificate.

Work to date that need notifying is:
New CU (already energised), New lighting circuit (already energised), New kitchen radial sockets circuit (already energised)

New work I'll need to do that needs notifying is:
2nd fix shower (I figure I can check cable installation and assume responsibility)
Provide new utility room RFC

Is it a silly idea to try and talk to the building inspector assigned to the job and see if he'll accept an EICR for the first list?

 

[7029 dave]

IMO only sign of work that you will be doing from start to finish, as for the already commissioned work EICR is about the best you can do.

 

[littlespark]

I would think they have to accept an EICR.
An EIC asks for designer of circuit, which you can’t leave blank or write “I don’t know”

 

[Dustydazzler]

What’s already installed is by the by now. You can’t issue a EIC for work that was done by others 3 or 4 months ago…

you can offer to a condition report on the existing wiring and then offer to complete the works issuing an EIC on the works that you undertake

I very regularly get asked to retrospectively certificate builders wiring / kitchen fitters wiring and my answer is always the same… NO

Sometimes building control will accept a condition report thou

 

[timhoward]

I suppose I should have asked this from the perspective of the customers and how they might satisfy building control.
I have no intention of signing off the work of others.

 

[Bob Geldoff1234]

The other question I would be asking is why did they fall out with the builder/electrician?
Was it because they didn't pay them? I would be asking ALOT more questions before doing any work for these people.I would even try to speak to the builder to get his side of the story.

 

[timhoward]

The other question I would be asking is why did they fall out with the builder/electrician?
Was it because they didn't pay them? I would be asking ALOT more questions before doing any work for these people.I would even try to speak to the builder to get his side of the story.

I agree in general. But I know them fairly well and the builder isn’t my favourite person in the universe. A joiner I know worked for the builder once. Long story…but left when he was asked to do some highly creative invoicing.

 

[catdog1121]

I took over a job a few months back on an extension, apparently electrician disappeared.. Found a few issues but building inspector said would accept an EICR... Did complete EICR and checked as much as I could.. About all you can do.

 

[DMElec.1]

As long as its not the one being offered from Hampshire - It sounds like one doing the rounds here. I spoke to our building control officer (or equivalent) about it - I like to go in for full disclosure - and he said he thought an EICR would suffice, when I pointed out what an EICR covers and does NOT cover he backed away from that idea - I am waiting to hear back (or not). If you pursue it with NAPIT they offer the option for you to certify third party so to speak... I'd use it as a great opportunity to see just how far the regs can go... and then say no... if an EICR was the way foreword - why would we keep EIC certification?

 

[nicebutdim]

As long as its not the one being offered from Hampshire - It sounds like one doing the rounds here. I spoke to our building control officer (or equivalent) about it - I like to go in for full disclosure - and he said he thought an EICR would suffice, when I pointed out what an EICR covers and does NOT cover he backed away from that idea - I am waiting to hear back (or not). If you pursue it with NAPIT they offer the option for you to certify third party so to speak... I'd use it as a great opportunity to see just how far the regs can go... and then say no... if an EICR was the way foreword - why would we keep EIC certification?

Problems like this can arise for many reasons - not least because of a falling out.. If an electrician died part way through an installation, it isn't reasonable to expect that everything should be ripped out and started again.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Problems like this can arise for many reasons - not least because of a falling out.. If an electrician died part way through an installation, it isn't reasonable to expect that everything should be ripped out and started again.

Funny you should say that , a few years ago I used to help an old sparks out from time to time

he always used to say to me ‘if I dropped dead tomorrow you can take over all the jobs I have started’

 

[nicebutdim]

Funny you should say that , a few years ago I used to help an old sparks out from time to time

he always used to say to me ‘if I dropped dead tomorrow you can take over all the jobs I have started’

Then face potential issues with certification, if you weren't present during the installation.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Then face potential issues with certification, if you weren't present during the installation.

In this case I would adopt the 6 or 7 ongoing jobs as my own , couldn’t care less what the do- gooders say

 

[telectrix]

In this case I would adopt the 6 or 7 ongoing jobs as my own , couldn’t care less what the do- gooders say

totally agree. trade has gone paperwork stupid.

 

[timhoward]

What’s already installed is by the by now. You can’t issue a EIC for work that was done by others 3 or 4 months ago…

In this case I would adopt the 6 or 7 ongoing jobs as my own , couldn’t care less what the do- gooders say

So if I track down the original electrician and make sure he dies, it's fine to crack on and pretend the work is mine?

 

[Dustydazzler]

So if I track down the original electrician and make sure he dies, it's fine to crack on and pretend the work is mine?

rather extreme but imo yes , it’s okay under certain circumstances to adopt a job

 

[Dave OCD]

And I bet for every one of us who is conscientious and does things properly including the paperwork there's two who will cut every corner and get away with it.

 

[nicebutdim]

So if I track down the original electrician and make sure he dies, it's fine to crack on and pretend the work is mine?

I'm guessing it would be easier to take on work if you knew the guy who started it worked to a good standard.

Still plenty of reasons why a job might change hands part way through and it's something the bureaucracy of local councils should be able to account for.

 

[telectrix]

local councils can't make their minds up on what to have for dinner, let alone electrical wizadry. unlesssaid electriccal work is of dubious sexuality, then they start throwing the book.

 

[Dartlec]

I've used a 'creative' workaround in the past where a 'notification' has been demanded, for a client I knew who had been let down by tradesmen.

I carried out a notifiable job in the same location (This was back when kitchens were included) - notified that, and ensured my certificate was clear about the extent of my installation.

Hey presto, a notification existed to show to anyone who asked - and if anyone looked at my certificate I had done everything correctly so taken on no responsibility for other's work.

In theory there was still a missing notification for the other work, but nothing in the system to show that existed. (Because the options on notification are so vague "new circuit", "work in special location", etc.,)

It does show how badly the system was designed and implemented of course.

In this case, if you were to remove the consumer unit from the wall and 'reinstall' it, then you'd be fine to issue a notification for that work IMO - No different to you installing a new consumer unit to existing wiring. Obviously you'd be carrying out suitable testing, etc.

The new circuits are more difficult and unless you can see the entire route of installation I'd be wary of doing anything other than producing an EICR for it - in which case talking to the building inspector is likely the best option. It can't be right that a homeowner is left in a position where they are practically unable to complete a legal requirement, due to the action of others...

Whatever you do, be very clear on the certificate extent of installation to cover yourself

 

[DMElec.1]

Problems like this can arise for many reasons - not least because of a falling out.. If an electrician died part way through an installation, it isn't reasonable to expect that everything should be ripped out and started again.

I agree, however my point is that the issue should not be the responsibility of either an electrician, or current certification, there is no reasonable way under current regs and certification, for someone to finish both the work and at the same time safely cover the work done previously (I'm talking about the buried parts of an installation, that you never witnessed being installed) - and this is what needs to be addressed by the powers that be, not the sparks on the shop floor, so to speak. If an EICR can be used once for a job to replace an EIC, then what is the point of current variation in certification? No, it needs a new system of signing off work that is failed as complete due to circumstances such as death.

 

[timhoward]

I agree it shouldn’t be an electricians problem to solve it but the reality is at the moment the customer is looking to electricians to solve their problem.
I’ve been musing 3rd party certification too.If by means of camera etc I find I can examine the first fix and be sure of no joints, and appropriate cable routing and operating temperature, and then do 100% inspection of 2nd fix I could almost completely correctly use 3rd party certification for it. The main issue still being not being able to name the installer and designer on the form. Otherwise requirements of TPS would be satisfied as far as I can see.
I think I’ll talk to Napit and if that (reasonably) gets nowhere I’ll then talk to BC officer about the two circuits.
Ive decided I don’t mind adopting the CU (with full testing) as it’s a good job and the fact it’s Fusebox unit with rcbos and Spd suggests it was fitted with someone with standards.
Thanks for all the responses - I’ve appreciated hearing the collective views.

 

[stevethesparks]

Then face potential issues with certification, if you weren't present during the installation.

I wouldn't have any problems taking over a job from a well known colleague who I trust and respect.

 

[Dustydazzler]

To put things into perspective, if say Nick Bundy or Delroy the spark rung me saying they started a rewire in my area but can’t get back to finish it and would I wrap it up for them…

of course I would have no issue doing so and adopting the job as mr own to finish it

if dave the plumber asked me to finish of his rewire , I would have reservations about this and would ideally like to see the job and it’s state before adopting it

however in both cases I wouldn’t simply turn down the opportunity of 2 paying jobs because the jobs worth don’t think it’s politically correct to take on a half finished rewire

 

[DPG]

To put things into perspective, if say Nick Bundy or Delroy the spark rung me saying they started a rewire in my area but can’t get back to finish it and would I wrap it up for them…

of course I would have no issue doing so and adopting the job as mr own to finish it

if dave the plumber asked me to finish of his rewire , I would have reservations about this and would ideally like to see the job and it’s state before adopting it

however in both cases I wouldn’t simply turn down the opportunity of 2 paying jobs because the jobs worth don’t think it’s politically correct to take on a half finished rewire

Not sure about Delroy after I saw the video of him installing those kitchen sockets.

 

[nicebutdim]

I wouldn't have any problems taking over a job from a well known colleague who I trust and respect.

Without doubt, but my point is that there are plenty of legitimate reasons why a job might need to be taken over part way through and councils need to make provision for this.

Electricians can't be placed on the hook for work they didn't carry out, and can not fully inspect, and homeowners shouldn't be left in a precarious position when they may have done nothing wrong.

 

[7029 dave]

Without doubt, but my point is that there are plenty of legitimate reasons why a job might need to be taken over part way through and councils need to make provision for this.

Electricians can't be placed on the hook for work they didn't carry out, and can not fully inspect, and homeowners shouldn't be left in a precarious position when they may have done nothing wrong.

Todays world is just too complicated when it needn't.

 

[Dave OCD]

Not sure about Delroy after I saw the video of him installing those kitchen sockets.

I'm not sure about the other one either having seen those atrocious runs of flexi conduit on a video. ?

 

[brianmoooore]

I wouldn't have any problems taking over a job from a well known colleague who I trust and respect.

But what about when (like one I took over several years ago after first fix) the electrical contractor and plumber had been well and truly screwed over by the builder, who had disappeared owing them thousands.