Tenant keeps setting fire to house

[KevinS]

Been to a job today who the tenant keeps setting fire to the house. The latest incident is where he tried to cook a hamburger in a pop up toaster. (He pee'd on a fan heater 2 weeks ago)
what is being asked for by his carers (and the fire brigade) are ways to stop him using his toaster, microwave and oven. They will be in his property but only used by the carers (who don't live there 24/7)
my plans were to put the microwave and toaster each hard wired into a switched fused spur, but these to be switched by a 20A d/p emergency light switch. (Follow me?) does this sound like a reasonable idea


they have suggested a lock off on the mcb to stop the oven being used, personally I don't think this is a very good idea
does anyone have a good idea that I can use for locking off the oven. (It's a combined electric oven and hob)


i know there is nothing to stop him buying another toaster and plugging it in elsewhere, but I can only do as I'm asked

 

[dim_bulb]

I know it's a bit industrial but what about the 3phase isolators that rotate and the can be padlocked off

 

[KevinS]

I know it's a bit industrial but what about the 3phase isolators that rotate and the can be padlocked off

Did think of that, but surely there must be something not so intrusive.
cheers

 

[dim_bulb]

Put standard double pole isolators in a cupboard and get a chippy into make a locked cupboard

 

[Fin170]

Key switch/ emergency light test switch to a contactor, contactor switching the supply to those sockets/ appliances/ however its set up

 

[Geordie Spark]

Put standard double pole isolators in a cupboard and get a chippy into make a locked cupboard

I agree completely with this.

I was caring from my Mother who was an Alzeimer's sufferer & I can honestly tell you it was the hardest most soul-destroying job I've ever done. I was living with her as her Full Time Carer and it was really a relentless 24/7 grind.

I awoke one morning, went downstairs to the kitchen and found the melted remains of the plastic jug kettle on the gas hob.

It was then that I got into the habit of turning the gas off and locking it off and locking-off the MCB feeding the kitchen every night.

 

[monkeyelectric]

How about a lockable steel enclosure for the cu and then they isolate what they want and lock it up

 

[KevinS]

How about a lockable steel enclosure for the cu and then they isolate what they want and lock it up

Is this allowed, what happens if anyone needs access when the carers aren't there?

 

[SYKRAPS]

How about a seperated DB for the kitchen circuits where the supply tails run through a contactor that is controlled by an emergency stop button that is located in an unobstrusive position that can only be accessed/reset with a key. Then all people who have the authority to use the kitchen appliances will hold a key.

 

[Guest55]

this job has got legal nightmare written all over it.
so by undertaking the electrical responsibility of trying to prevent this person from burning the place down with measures you install...........
well hes gonna torch the place eventually if they cant trust him alone with electricals.
wouldnt want my name on any certs if it go's pete tong.
just a thought.

 

[Marvo]

Maybe fit 16A plugs or even European type schuko plugs to all the appliances and give the carers a travel adapter so only they can plug them in. Not sure if this would be possible with the stove though.....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

hmm....lock & key supply eh..lol....as long as theres sommat at the C/U.....
well, how long do you give it before he starts taking `feeds` from the C/U to appliances he wants to use in flex....or whatever he might find hanging around?..lol....
sad thing here though is he obviously needs more care and attention to his needs than is currently being provided....
dispicable...and that really isn`t funny...lol..not...

 

[SafetyFirst]

You probably can't answer this but why isn't this said person in proper full time care?

 

[monkeyelectric]

Probably not, perhaps they could just have a lockable enclosure for the tenant

 

[dim_bulb]

Has anyone seen the film quills?

Just reminded me of the guy in it

 

[ayjay]

meals on wheels?
he should be in care, poor fella

 

[KevinS]

You probably can't answer this but why isn't this said person in proper full time care?

Sorry but I don't know that.

thanks for the replies lads, got me thinking even more now.

 

[ferg]

The care sector is moving more and more towards the use of technology in order for people to live in their own homes safely without having to put up with carers 24/7.

I would think that as long as you make it clear that you are doing the work as requested, to reduce not eliminate risk, you should be fine.

If social services, or similar, are involved they should have a risk assessment in place and the work you are doing should be part of it.

I would, personally, want to be sure that not being able to use these appliances won't lead to a greater risk through frustration.

I.E damage to, or more inappropriate use of, appliances etc.

However having said all that someone else, not you, has done the risk assessment and decided this is the route to go down.

You would only be helping them implement it.

If this idea did not work then it would not be you at fault.

Hope this helps

 

[KevinS]

How about a seperated DB for the kitchen circuits where the supply tails run through a contactor that is controlled by an emergency stop button that is located in an unobstrusive position that can only be accessed/reset with a key. Then all people who have the authority to use the kitchen appliances will hold a key.

thanks for this idea, as the kitchen is already on its own ring, but then I realised the fridge, freezer, washer etc would not work. Because the way the kicthen is wired, it would be hard to change. Buts thanks for the idea

 

[DieselShunter]

Based on the fact that electricity travels a lot faster than pee, if he keeps piddling on his fan heater the problem's going to solve itself.

On a more serious note - The idea of 13A to commando adaptors, and putting commando plugs on the necessary appliances sounds like a simple and inspired solution to me. Just leaves you to put the cooker circuit through a padlockable isolator as you suggested.

 

[jenions]

Sockets wise I'd be tempted to fit keyed sockets although they are metal clad, however if it does the job and asthetics aren't an issue. And I'd be tempted to put cooker on contactor switched by a secret key switch.


Sent from my BlackBerry 9360 using Tapatalk

 

[PEG]

If the tenant cannot be trusted with safe use of his electrical gear,lets hope there is no gas supply to the property.You would'nt be easily able to lock THAT off for extended periods and devilment in that area could take out the street.Put a cork on his fork and give him an eye patch...

 

[ferg]

Put a cork on his fork and give him an eye patch...

I don't get that, can you explain it to me?

 

[timo1]

What about lockable socket covers? The appliance can be turned off and the plug and flex kept locked until his carers arrive. Something like this - Insight Security - selling Socket Pro -Safety Cover (Locking-Lid) - for Double 13a Socket nationwide. The best idea is D.P switches locked away though

 

[ayjay]

personally i think that the whole thread is pointless
all that needs to be done is get the person into care
end of

 

[Earthstore]

Why not just lock the kitchen?

 

[ferg]

I'm impressed ajay,
Just by reading this thread you managed to do a complete assessment of this guy.

Not only that but you solved all his problems by... well get him in care end of

That's amazing TBH.

normally it takes weeks, months or years of assessment to decide what level of care someone needs.

congratulations you've just saved social services a fortune all you need is an assessment on electricians forums :90:

 

[44ALLAN]

hmm....lock & key supply eh..lol....as long as theres sommat at the C/U.....
well, how long do you give it before he starts taking `feeds` from the C/U to appliances he wants to use in flex....or whatever he might find hanging around?..lol....
sad thing here though is he obviously needs more care and attention to his needs than is currently being provided....
dispicable...and that really isn`t funny...lol..not...

Totally agree but they can find 5 mill quid a year to watch a terrorist from space after putting him in a 400grand house all expenses paid!!!
Shakes my head in utter disbelief !:furious3:

 

[ackbarthestar]

Quite straight forward really....he said...

Besides all the mechanical locking procedures and enclosures you might consider smoke and heat alarms wired into a monitored fire alarm system which will also automatically switch the supply, via a contactor to all the power circuits.

Bloody tragic IMO. That this person doesn't have anybody to care for him.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Based on the fact that electricity travels a lot faster than pee, if he keeps piddling on his fan heater the problem's going to solve itself.

On a more serious note - The idea of 13A to commando adaptors, and putting commando plugs on the necessary appliances sounds like a simple and inspired solution to me. Just leaves you to put the cooker circuit through a padlockable isolator as you suggested.

leccy dont go uphill....eveyone knows that....

 

[KevinS]

personally i think that the whole thread is pointless
all that needs to be done is get the person into care
end of

If the thread is pointless, why are you wasting everyone's time posting pointless comments

also I am an electrician, not a social worker/ carer. Lets just hope sometime in the future either you or one of your loved ones never has a mental illness, we will see how soon you want them put into care.

 

[timo1]

Care for those that need it varies on loads of things like reaction to medication, periods of stress and the receivers of care are given a certain amount of free reign to see how they cope. Not everyone who has issues can be put into care, and many that get care still live a relatively normal life working etc...

 

[ferg]

Bloody tragic IMO. That this person doesn't have anybody to care for him.

He clearly does have someone caring for him or the OP wouldn't have posted the thread.

Full time care sounds like the right thing to do for lots of folks until you realise what it involves.
Would you really want someone living in your house 24/7 watching your every move?
Even worse being taken out of your home and forced to live with people you don't know and might not even like?

There are loads of good posts on this thread that might give the OP ideas on how to let this guy live in his own home, living his own life safely.

A common solution, which may already have been mentioned, is to have a fire detection system connected to an auto-dialer that phones the carer and alerts them.

there are also systems where you can work out when and where someone is moving around there home.
This means you can easily see patterns forming in behaviour and have someone nearby or present at those times.

Something as simple as a help call system which dials 3 numbers in list of priority can make all the difference.

In short I can see why people might think 24/7 care is the answer but most of the time it can be avoided.

 

[vjsmarwick]

Seeing the lockable covers for the sockets would the same cover not work on the cooker switch also ? Then problem solved.

But I would hate to be in this guys position stuck in a house where he can't make anything to eat or even a hot drink if I get the that stage please someone shoot me ?

 

[Geordie Spark]

Seeing the lockable covers for the sockets would the same cover not work on the cooker switch also ? Then problem solved.

But I would hate to be in this guys position stuck in a house where he can't make anything to eat or even a hot drink if I get the that stage please someone shoot me ?

Yes .... it's a horrible situation to be in.

In the early days of my caring for Mum, I hadn't realised how bad she was nor how much worse she would become and tried to let her have her independence. It ended-up with her making herself ham sandwiches from raw bacon and eating them, making coffee from gravy salt and drinking it etc. - the list is endless.

I did seriously think about putting her into a care home, and on one weekend every month she went there for respite care just to give me a break, but every time she was there she had "accidents" which always resulted in her being taken to hospital to be patched up & returned to me so I kept her at home where she had no "falls" or "accidents" and did my best for her for three years until she died at the age of 84, thinking that I was her uncle and wondering when her mother was coming home from work.

 

[vjsmarwick]

I have known many in the same boat my grandmother included and my own mother is starting to forget things now too. But she is almost 80 so I guess at that age it has to be hard to remember everything as for care home naa not as long as I am fit. We had a disabled daughter that used to go in to care to give us a break worst thing ever I will never forgive myself. She is gone now and I hate even thinking of her time in there.


Good luck guys count your blessings not your money !!!!

 

[tigerpaul]

Sorry if this has been said already,
What about simply hard wiring the appliances into flex outlet spurs.
Some of them MK I think are lockable now.

I don't agree with the guy that said to just shove the person into care. That's a typical thoughtless response to the ops genuine question.