Terminate SWA in Wiska or straight to Garage CU

[doobereewotsit]

Hello all,

I wanted to know the best approach of connecting to a Garage CU.

Currently planning a small wiring project that i want to do in a few months time, when cash and time allows.
My plan is to do the work myself and go through the proper channels of notifying the work to the local council so i am building a plan of what i am doing and what kit to buy.

The plan is to run an SWA from the house(own supply) to the garage/ workshop.
My first question is with regards to the termination of the SWA where it meets the garage/ workshop.
The SWA will be the supply to a garage Consumer unit but my question is do i terminate the SWA in a Wiska box on the outside and then run a TE from the junction box(wiska) to the supply on the CU, which will be on the opposite side of the wall? or do I terminate the SWA on the Wiska box but strip the cable such that i feed the cable direct through the garage wall and into the CU?

I ask as trying to feed the chunky SWA through the wall and direct to the CU will be untidy and id like the supply to feed the CU from direct from the outside into the back of the CU.

I hope i am making sense.

Thanks all

John

 

[buzzlightyear]

I do not want to be rude are you a spark ,and could you call back tommorow has im going to bed .

 

[Des 56]

You could run the swa into the garage,bury it in a chase in the wall,terminate the swa into a metal back box leaving longish ends to take them direct into the consumer unit fitted over that back box

 

[Charlie_]

Is the CU metal?
What size SWA?

 

[Midwest]

Have you found out the cost of notification to LBC?

 

[TJ Anderson]

Hello all,

I wanted to know the best approach of connecting to a Garage CU.

Currently planning a small wiring project that i want to do in a few months time, when cash and time allows.
My plan is to do the work myself and go through the proper channels of notifying the work to the local council so i am building a plan of what i am doing and what kit to buy.

The plan is to run an SWA from the house(own supply) to the garage/ workshop.
My first question is with regards to the termination of the SWA where it meets the garage/ workshop.
The SWA will be the supply to a garage Consumer unit but my question is do i terminate the SWA in a Wiska box on the outside and then run a TE from the junction box(wiska) to the supply on the CU, which will be on the opposite side of the wall? or do I terminate the SWA on the Wiska box but strip the cable such that i feed the cable direct through the garage wall and into the CU?

I ask as trying to feed the chunky SWA through the wall and direct to the CU will be untidy and id like the supply to feed the CU from direct from the outside into the back of the CU.

I hope i am making sense.

Thanks all

John

Yes, you can do either of those that you mention. Go for a 3 core SWA so you have a core as CPC and ensure to earth the armour, preferably from supply end.

 

[doobereewotsit]

I do not want to be rude are you a spark ,and could you call back tommorow has im going to bed .

No i am not a spark, and sure get some sleep, it is busy saving us all from Zorg!

You could run the swa into the garage,bury it in a chase in the wall,terminate the swa into a metal back box leaving longish ends to take them direct into the consumer unit fitted over that back box

The garage is timber, sorry forgot to say.

Is the CU metal?
What size SWA?

Metal CU, 2.5MM T/E

Have you found out the cost of notification to LBC?

No but i assume you are going to say its cheaper to get a spark in?

Yes, you can do either of those that you mention. Go for a 3 core SWA so you have a core as CPC and ensure to earth the armour, preferably from supply end.

Thank you, i believe i have seen this being done using a pirahna nut within the enclosure/Wiska box.

 

[doobereewotsit]

My dad always said that is pays to earth everything metal along the path. not sure how true that is.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Unless you are intending to break the law you will need to notify your work to LABC to comply with part P. Part P also requires that all work complies with Bs7671. It is clear from your posts that your electrical experience is limited, think very carefully whether you are capable of carrying out the work in compliance with part P, and whether the actual cost of doing it yourself will be greater than getting an approved contractor to carry out the work along with notification/certification.

 

[Charlie_]

Do you have gas?

 

[doobereewotsit]

Unless you are intending to break the law you will need to notify your work to LABC to comply with part P. Part P also requires that all work complies with Bs7671. It is clear from your posts that your electrical experience is limited, think very carefully whether you are capable of carrying out the work in compliance with part P, and whether the actual cost of doing it yourself will be greater than getting an approved contractor to carry out the work along with notification/certification.

Thanks for your reply. I did state that i am in the planning phase and will be notifying the authorities.

I respect electric and electricians a lot. Although from my posts i am showing a potential lack of knowledge in this area. It would be wrong to assume i am not capable given the right support and knowledge.

I have wired a radial circuit of sockets with spurs to outdoor IP sockets and FCU lights before and was told the work was fine(electrician).
The only addition section here is the garage CU and the SWA feeding it. And it seems doable so far.

Like i said, im planning . Why? well i am interested in this area. I enrolled to become a spark 2 years ago(and im 40 now!) but the course didnt get the numbers. It was a night course.
Another reason is, with the greatest respect to you electricians on here, round where i live there is a real problem getting a decent tradesman of any kind. Its a case of the minority ruin the reputation of the many.
One other point. It may sound mad or sound like i am rich(i am not i assure you) but i dont mind spending money to learn stuff. If i cant become a certified spark, is there really that much of an issue if i learn it anyway?no so long as a dont break the law.

Thanks

 

[doobereewotsit]

Do you have gas?

No gas here.

 

[telectrix]

Do you have gas?

i do .but i blame last night's curry.

 

[doobereewotsit]

i do .but i blame last night's curry.

And there was me resisting lowering the tone....

 

[Dustydazzler]

Most DIYers haven’t got a clue what part pee is let alone booking the job in with building controller

Bacon to the OP , 2.5 swa is easily manipulated through a wall and formed to go directly up to a position. So I would take directly to my consumer unit position

I personally don’t like cAbles being unnecessarily cut and joined..

 

[Charlie_]

No gas here.

That’s a shame you could have tapped into the gas at the same time and took that down with your power

 

[doobereewotsit]

Most DIYers haven’t got a clue what part pee is let alone booking the job in with building controller

Bacon to the OP , 2.5 swa is easily manipulated through a wall and formed to go directly up to a position. So I would take directly to my consumer unit position

I personally don’t like cAbles being unnecessarily cut and joined..

Fair point re the DIYers. i Like to thinl i am not in that category but i suppose i would wouldn't I!

Thank you for answering the actual question asked.

Given its a timber wall i guess a slight diagonal hole would encourage less "kink" on the entry and exit either side of the wall. I just wanted it to look as neat and tidy as possible.

 

[Spoon]

That earthing arrangement do you have?
How long is the SWA run?
How will the SWA be routed?
What are you planning to use in the shed?
Does anything need bonding in the shed?

Would love to see how much LABC are going to charge you for this. Please let us know.
I'm presuming you know you still need this circuit tested by an electrician and LABC will want all relevant paperwork.
May be a good idea to see if it is cheaper to go through an electrician as you need one anyhow. You could have a word with them and say that you will do all the donkey work, therefor saving some money.

 

[Midwest]

No but i assume you are going to say its cheaper to get a spark in?

It something to consider. My LBC charges £400 + vat, to test & inspect installation. You could try third party inspection, but that service is not cheap either.

I was registered with a scheme, not no more. I haven’t the 18th, so I doubt if I could convince my LBC of my current competency. If I was installing new circuits/CU etc, I might consider getting a registered spark to do. Might be cheaper.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Third party verification is one option , but I have heard prices can vary dramatically..
If you have already nearly finished the job then third party is probably your best bet. At this point building controller probably won’t work.
Or you could just do the job and not bother with any of the red tape

 

[Spoon]

If you have already nearly finished the job then third party is probably your best bet.

The OP says it's just at the planning stage at the mo.

 

[doobereewotsit]

Most DIYers haven’t got a clue what part pee is let alone booking the job in with building controller

Bacon to the OP , 2.5 swa is easily manipulated through a wall and formed to go directly up to a position. So I would take directly to my consumer unit position

I personally don’t like cAbles being unnecessarily cut and joined..

My original question did ask whether to terminate the SWA at the outside Wiska leaving enough length in the cores to push through to the Cu and connect there.
I just think that would look tidier and join direct to the CU from the house.

 

[Andy78]

Third party verification is one option , but I have heard prices can vary dramatically..
If you have already nearly finished the job then third party is probably your best bet. At this point building controller probably won’t work.
Or you could just do the job and not bother with any of the red tape

Not so. A third party notification should be designed by the signing party and inspected at first and second fix.

 

[Spoon]

My original question did ask whether to terminate the SWA at the outside Wiska leaving enough length in the cores to push through to the Cu and connect there.
I just think that would look tidier and join direct to the CU from the house.

Not sure I would agree with you on that.
You say that the shed is wood.
How would an armoured cable routed on the outside of the shed look better than one routed inside?.... Just my opinion...

 

[Andy78]

Fair point re the DIYers. i Like to thinl i am not in that category but i suppose i would wouldn't I!

You hit the nail on the head there. No diyer who attempts electrical work thinks of themselves as any less competent than an electrician. that's why they attempt it.
It's an especially prevalent mindset amongst those who make a completely unsafe mess of it.

 

[doobereewotsit]

Not sure I would agree with you on that.
You say that the shed is wood.
How would an armoured cable routed on the outside of the shed look better than one routed inside?.... Just my opinion...

SWA goes up external wall on side which can’t be seen.
Terminated at Wiska. Cores go through back of Wiska in through the back of the CU on opposite side.
No SWA showing inside and one conduit coming down to the first socket in radial circuit

Seems tidy to me.

 

[ruston]

Most DIYers haven’t got a clue what part pee is let alone booking the job in with building controller

Bacon to the OP , 2.5 swa is easily manipulated through a wall and formed to go directly up to a position. So I would take directly to my consumer unit position

I personally don’t like cAbles being unnecessarily cut and joined..

Same here , you are going to have to come through , or under the wall at some stage. Save yourself a load of grief trying to terminate into an adaptable box and wire it neatly directly into your metal CU.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Not so. A third party notification should be designed by the signing party and inspected at first and second fix.

There are several third parties in London and Surrey who will do retrospective certification for a price

 

[Andy78]

There are several third parties in London and Surrey who will do retrospective certification for a price

That doesn't mean they are doing it correctly though. Might as well not bother.

 

[Andy78]

SWA goes up external wall on side which can’t be seen.
Terminated at Wiska. Cores go through back of Wiska in through the back of the CU on opposite side.
No SWA showing inside and one conduit coming down to the first socket in radial circuit

Seems tidy to me.

A lot tidier would be under the shed and up through the floor. Why have a gland and point of termination outside when it can be inside ?

 

[doobereewotsit]

That doesn't mean they are doing it correctly though. Might as well not bother.

The sad reality is I have no guarantee anyone will do anything correctly, I just have a piece of paper that says it’s his fault not mine. Should anything go wrong.

 

[Spoon]

Still don't know what the earthing arrangement is...
OP, please see questions in post '#18 above.

 

[doobereewotsit]

A lot tidier would be under the shed and up through the floor. Why have a gland and point of termination outside when it can be inside ?

Fair point from a why have an external termination point of view.

 

[doobereewotsit]

Still don't know what the earthing arrangement is...
OP, please see questions in post '#18 above.

Where you seeing the post number?

Anyway.
Earth would be coming from house in SWA. connection at earth terminal in CU.
Connect SWA to earth terminal and the first socket on radial.
Each socket on radial earthed as metal being used.

 

[Andy78]

Where you seeing the post number?

Anyway.
Earth would be coming from house in SWA. connection at earth terminal in CU.
Connect SWA to earth terminal and the first socket on radial.
Each socket on radial earthed as metal being used.

Post number is right at the bottom of the post next to where it says +Quote in grey.
Spoon is asking what is the earthing arrangement for the installation, how does your supply derive its earth path and by which connection method.

 

[doobereewotsit]

Post number is right at the bottom of the post next to where it says +Quote in grey.
Spoon is asking what is the earthing arrangement for the installation, how does your supply derive its earth path and by which connection method.

Ah it’s not there on portrait view on my mobile. Is on landscape (tilting phone).

Technically no where as this is all theory.

You mean the main supply to the property? Looks like the earth connects to the main SWA coming into the property. Assuming that’s what it is. There’s definitely an earth block there.
So depends if I take supply from main supply of house or socket ring.

 

[The Ghost]

I think that you need to get an electrician in.

 

[doobereewotsit]

I think that you need to get an electrician in.

Thanks for that. Generic but valid response.

Of course getting an electrician in would solve everything. But that’s not what i am asking.

 

[Andy78]

Thanks for that. Generic but valid response.

Of course getting an electrician in would solve everything. But that’s not what i am asking.

As frustrating as it is sometimes to posters on here, you have no control over or rights to the answers you get to your questions. If you are not getting the answers you expect or want then you must want a particular answer, which means you already know the answer.

Your question was, "I wanted to know the best approach of connecting to a Garage CU."

Having weighed up all your plans and responses to questions, I too feel Vortigern's response is the route that best answers your question.
A local electrician may be open to you helping by installing the first fix to their design, which may be a good compromise.

 

[doobereewotsit]

As frustrating as it is sometimes to posters on here, you have no control over or rights to the answers you get to your questions. If you are not getting the answers you expect or want then you must want a particular answer, which means you already know the answer.

Your question was, "I wanted to know the best approach of connecting to a Garage CU."

Having weighed up all your plans and responses to questions, I too feel Vortigern's response is the route that best answers your question.
A local electrician may be open to you helping by installing the first fix to their design, which may be a good compromise.

I wasn’t unhappy with any response.

My question was specifically relating to the connection to the CU from outside.
Others asked more questions of me that don’t affect whether I go through the floor or through an external box. In answering those questions I expose my lack of knowledge and terminology.
And which point the thread goes off topic.

 

[Squid]

Terminate to isolator box/switch then cable to CSU phone insurers and make sure the shed is covered.

 

[doobereewotsit]

For what it’s worth. I have had a sparks round about this job but as I say it’s not what I was asking.
The forum suggested I’d get help with questions, which I have, so thank you all for your responses. Specifically those that answered my question.

 

[Spoon]

I wasn’t unhappy with any response.

My question was specifically relating to the connection to the CU from outside.
Others asked more questions of me that don’t affect whether I go through the floor or through an external box. In answering those questions I expose my lack of knowledge and terminology.
And which point the thread goes off topic.

All my questions are relevant, as they affect the installation.
If you do not know the answers to them then you can either find out the answers or get someone in who can.

 

[Midwest]

You can get a retrospective certificate by your LBC, it’s called a Regularisation Certificate: my LBC charges £600plus vat for that.

 

[Spoon]

For what it’s worth. I have had a sparks round about this job but as I say it’s not what I was asking.

It's not that simple with electrics and people of the public requesting info. We have to look at all the factors when giving out info. You should be able to understand this.

 

[doobereewotsit]

It's not that simple with electrics and people of the public requesting info. We have to look at all the factors when giving out info. You should be able to understand this.

I completely understand.
Just don’t see how saying seek an electrician is a response.
That is my opinion.

 

[The Ghost]

To do what you propose involves a lot more than the questions you are asking. It is not off topic to include a reasoned judgement regards your own safety as that is intrinsic to being able to give you advice in a safe manner. I am concerned you probably will not do dead tests prior to commissioning the circuit and live test once you have. Do not expect anyone will compromise that by encouraging you to install in a dangerous way. When it is said get an electrician it is because you have made it abundantly clear you are dangerous to yourself and maybe more importantly, others.

 

[Andy78]

I completely understand.
Just don’t see how saying seek an electrician is a response.
That is my opinion.

It's usually the best and most relevant response with regards to safety, which is what being an electrician is all about.

 

[doobereewotsit]

To do what you propose involves a lot more than the questions you are asking. It is not off topic to include a reasoned judgement regards your own safety as that is intrinsic to being able to give you advice in a safe manner. I am concerned you probably will not do dead tests prior to commissioning the circuit and live test once you have. Do not expect anyone will compromise that by encouraging you to install in a dangerous way. When it is said get an electrician it is because you have made it abundantly clear you are dangerous to yourself and maybe more importantly, others.

That’s better. Not so generic.
I realise this involves more and is why my post was not titled “please provide a detailed plan on how to wire my garage”.
The problem I see across many forums is where someone is getting help with something and then suddenly, with no reasons or explanation someone chimes in with a blunt response.
It’s unhelpful and likely to discourage people getting the advice they need.
Besides it goes completely off topic. Which it’s fair to say this has.

 

[doobereewotsit]

It's usually the best and most relevant response with regards to safety, which is what being an electrician is all about.

That’s fair enough. It’s just nice to know why that’s all. Who knows someone might learn something.