To be RCD or not to be RCD

[Darkwood]

Doing a PIR and come across a situation thats got me thinking, factory unit (new) has high level flourescent lighting, from the dist board through the switch up to the perlings its in metal trunking then each row is wired along the perlings via a 13amp plug and socket to each fitting. Its in 2.5 t& e and is set up just like a socket radial circuit per row.
If this was to wired under seventeenth would it require rcd protection????
Im just putting this out there to see opinions as i see arguments for both sides but its for fun as i dont need to implement this in any job.

 

[ian.settle1]

If the cabling is on the surface why would it nee an RCD?

 

[Guest123]

Well technically they are socket outlets rated at less then 20A allbeit high up on the purlins. I assume this is Darkwoods querey???

 

[Darkwood]

If the cabling is on the surface why would it nee an RCD?

Dont get to do much 17th edition as im on breakdown machine repair but correct me if im wrong i thought all sockets required rcd protection irrespective of installation method, in a sense this is what this is rows of sockets with lights plugged in, they are just 25ft in the air which is the only noticable difference oh an the mcb rating too 10A (c)

 

[Notsosmart]

Their location & the setting (factory) means that they are likely to be maintained by a competent person therefore they are exempt from the rcd requirement.

As an aside even though there are sockets who the hell is going to reach to plug any thing into them.
Oh yeh Peter Crouch

 

[lamb]

Protection by 30mA RCD not required for socket outlets under the control of skilled or instructed persons.

 

[Darkwood]

The unit is empty but already aware of the skilled person clause its just common sense i think that it dosnt require rcd but put this one out there for the debate as it could be a grey area as it crosses the boundary of regulation against common sense.
Thanks for your input.

 

[electro]

Hi


I would not fit an RCD to the high level lights on the balance of risk.

Risk for fitting RCD

• The risk is they could be used as normal socket outlets (very unlikely).
• They may not be under the control of skilled or instructed persons (very unlikely in factory environment).

Risk of fitting RCD

• Factory environment, to avoid hazards and minimize inconvenience in the event of a fault, very dangerous if the lights go out in a factory.
• Take into account of danger that may arise from the failure of a single circuit as a lighting circuit. (Dependant on set up).
• Does the system have emergency lighting that is suitable under circuit failure situation.?

That's how I would decide if to fit an RCD, but I would not fit socket outlets in the first place (not your fault I know) you could recommend to fit Greg/Rock Roses instead. what do you think?


Regards

 

[Darkwood]

Found the reg' i was searching for 411-3-3 this states that sockets require rcd protection if they are intended for general use by an ordinary person, these sockets are not so dont require it, so i dont see anything wrong with this method, was just finding difficulty located above reg.

 

[electro]

Hi Darkwood

Reg 411.3.3 I think (a) is so open, I believe the wording will be changed in the amendment 1 (b) you could stick a label on each socket outlet?

Regards

 

[Darkwood]

Hi Darkwood

Reg 411.3.3 I think (a) is so open, I believe the wording will be changed in the amendment 1 (b) you could stick a label on each socket outlet?

Regards

They are 25ft up hidden in a pearling so out off reach and only a maintenance (trained) person or sparky would spend all the money on a scissor lift to change any faulty fittings so not going to code it, and all he will do is unplug the fitting making the task safe.

 

[electro]

They are 25ft up hidden in a pearling so out off reach and only a maintenance (trained) person or sparky would spend all the money on a scissor lift to change any faulty fittings so not going to code it, and all he will do is unplug the fitting making the task safe.

Hi Darkwood


He might plug in a lawn mower while he's up there. I know what your saying that's why I would go back to the risks of to fit or not to fit a RCD.

Regards

 

[Guest123]

Hi all.

I've used the plug and socket outlet method before on a few installs, but we used MK "T" earth socket outlets and plugs thereby making them non-standard sockets and eliminating the need for RCD.

I've used kliks many a time too, only issue I have is terminating the bleeders into a galv conduit box.....particularly when wired in 4mm 3c swa due to loading and VD.

 

[Phil Mumford]

No RCD required a stated due to the nature of the install.

One other thing to consider: If the fluorescents are high frequency they will leak current to earth or they will not work. Try putting large quantities of these babies on an RCD and watch it trip !

 

[mechelec]

Are they standard socket outlets? the reason I ask is that if they are non standard ie pins turned 90 degrees etc only the lighting could be plugged in.

 

[Gravid]

I've installed like this before a few times in the past, they were just standard metal clad skt's. Is it not good practice ?

 

[Darkwood]

Are they standard socket outlets? the reason I ask is that if they are non standard ie pins turned 90 degrees etc only the lighting could be plugged in.

Standard sockets but its not a problem they are 25ft up in the perlings i like to see the cleaner try use them

 

[supasparxs]

Protection by 30mA RCD not required for socket outlets under the control of skilled or instructed persons.

Does this mean that I don't need an RCD in my house

I can say that I'm com.... compe.... compet..... competent person (got there in the end) and my other half, her son, and my mother in law are all people under instruction?


Can I be a cheapscape and just use main switch and MCB?


(I am taking the pee here and just debating)