Unqualified, inexperienced badged "electricians"

[grimysparks80]

The words Domestic Installer make me puke and makes me boil with pure rage.
Cant watch this thread anymore, I now wont sleep as it is.uke::32::banghead::veryangry2::83:

Lol. Quick everyone. send him a PM with the heading Domestic installer:troll:

 

[OllieNotts]

The solution has been said advertise asking for JIB approved and part p registered lads. That way the qualifications needed are the real ones that take a few years!

The JIB card is something I really want to aim for, but my college are telling the students "you dont need a JIB card to earn money in this game". One told lads they will walk out next year on £40 an hour self emplyed earning 60k a year S/E haha

 

[i=p/u]

one more year get my jib card, gonna pay £10 quid for adverisement in my local paper to advertise for jib sparks and tell them the importance of being jib qualified, roll on a year .. we can defeat them together.. kepp the enimies close

 

[alarm man]

The JIB card is something I really want to aim for, but my college are telling the students "you dont need a JIB card to earn money in this game". One told lads they will walk out next year on £40 self emplyed earning 60k a year S/E haha

a jib card is all good and well,but without the rates and benefits it should carry its as good as your blockbuster card,but thats another thread.

 

[smiley1609]

i dont think that most forum members here are tarring all with the same brush.....but these 5 week wonders keep coming in here asking the most base questions on how to do stuff that usually start with the eternal words "i`m an electrician"...or something like that....can get really annoying.....basic stuff about where and where not to apply diversity,...."what size MCB should i use"....this without any attempt at looking through the relevent books first ....no...non of that....its straight in here...and so someone has to answer thise questions just because they know the anser and did their homework........really irritating stuff like that....

fair enough guys...

I do also tend to agree with many of the comments on this subject as well...there are many out there that don't have a clue...and as you have suggested, in the main forum there are often some totally ridiculous questions being asked by guys that quite obviously don't have any idea about the subject !

I entirely agree with earlier posts about some form of practical training...i.e. drilling joists...chasing walls... and although these classroom courses for the building regs will help to understand the Part A requirements for depth of chases... allowable areas to drill joists...Part M requirements for mobility...and bathroom zonal restrictions...and many other regulations... however, these courses don't give a full knowledge of the execution of these tasks !

When I finish my current job...I am luck enough to have the possibility to work alongside a fully trained spark...and a good redundancy package to allow me to get by on a minimal wage for some time...although to have a full apprenticeship at my age and with mortgage and family commitments would be an impossibility !

I hope that within a few month period, that it should give me enough knowledge and know how...to at least be able to make an informed decision whether this is going to be the right industry for me !

Heck, after doing the job for a few months...I might realise that I do not wish to spend the rest of my days crawling around roof spaces...and lifting floorboards !

 

[alarm man]

fair enough guys...

I do also tend to agree with many of the comments on this subject as well...there are many out there that don't have a clue...and as you have suggested, in the main forum there are often some totally ridiculous questions being asked by guys that quite obviously don't have any idea about the subject !

I entirely agree with earlier posts about some form of practical training...i.e. drilling joists...chasing walls... and although these classroom courses for the building regs will help to understand the Part A requirements for depth of chases... allowable areas to drill joists...Part M requirements for mobility...and bathroom zonal restrictions...and many other regulations... however, these courses don't give a full knowledge of the execution of these tasks !

When I finish my current job...I am luck enough to have the possibility to work alongside a fully trained spark...and a good redundancy package to allow me to get by on a minimal wage for some time...although to have a full apprenticeship at my age and with mortgage and family commitments would be an impossibility !

I hope that within a few month period, that it should give me enough knowledge and know how...to at least be able to make an informed decision whether this is going to be the right industry for me !

Heck, after doing the job for a few months...I might realise that I do not wish to spend the rest of my days crawling around roof spaces...and lifting floorboards !

to be fair man,a few months you wont know much more than you do now,and im a believer in you learn something new everyday

 

[OllieNotts]

a jib card is all good and well,but without the rates and benefits it should carry its as good as your blockbuster card,but thats another thread.

I know, I have been reading. It seems that while all industries feel the pinch the men at the top dont give up their share of the money and just keeping getting richer. Meh.
And anyone who missed my earlier post, I am free for training wed-sun till june then full time till sept when I do level 3

 

[Mark_Burgess]

I know, I have been reading. It seems that while all industries feel the pinch the men at the top dont give up their share of the money and just keeping getting richer. Meh.
And anyone who missed my earlier post, I am free for training wed-sun till june then full time till sept when I do level 3

Without saying the area you live, the less likely you are to get a response.

 

[OllieNotts]

Without saying the area you live, the less likely you are to get a response.

OllieNotts as in Nottingham, thought the clue was in the name sorry. Nottingham or Derby are both accessible

 

[Adam W]

a jib card is all good and well,but without the rates and benefits it should carry its as good as your blockbuster card,but thats another thread.

This isn't about companies paying JIB rates, it's about domestic customers knowing that they are employing a qualified tradesman.

 

[alarm man]

This isn't about companies paying JIB rates, it's about domestic customers knowing that they are employing a qualified tradesman.

well a-they dont want too,b-and they dont know...

 

[ample current]

I would dearly loooove to work along side a fully qualified spark to learn onsite to gain some hands on experiance and guidence. nothing would please me more, even if it was for one day a week.


any one on here in the Bristol area want a part time, very hard working, reliable, enthusiastic, conscientious worker

 

[ipf]

fair enough guys...

I do also tend to agree with many of the comments on this subject as well...there are many out there that don't have a clue...and as you have suggested, in the main forum there are often some totally ridiculous questions being asked by guys that quite obviously don't have any idea about the subject !

I entirely agree with earlier posts about some form of practical training...i.e. drilling joists...chasing walls... and although these classroom courses for the building regs will help to understand the Part A requirements for depth of chases... allowable areas to drill joists...Part M requirements for mobility...and bathroom zonal restrictions...and many other regulations... however, these courses don't give a full knowledge of the execution of these tasks !

When I finish my current job...I am luck enough to have the possibility to work alongside a fully trained spark...and a good redundancy package to allow me to get by on a minimal wage for some time...although to have a full apprenticeship at my age and with mortgage and family commitments would be an impossibility !

I hope that within a few month period, that it should give me enough knowledge and know how...to at least be able to make an informed decision whether this is going to be the right industry for me !

Heck, after doing the job for a few months...I might realise that I do not wish to spend the rest of my days crawling around roof spaces...and lifting floorboards !

Try crawling under floorboards and lifting roof slates.
:sweatdrop:

 

[GLENNSPARK]

thing is n all is you get folk going through the likes of ratedpeople...and other parasites like that....wanting stuff doing for practically nowt and in unrealistic timeframes........they dont help themselves do they......

 

[sparkiegaz]

customers dont give crap about badges fancy cert coloured cards etc etc all they want is cheap,,,,,cheapest feller gets the job,,,,,as long as the lights turn on and off when asked and the tv can work from the white thingy in the wall there happy look at cowboy builders on channel five bet the home owners went with the cheapest quote and ended up in the mess on all of them,,

 

[Engineer54]

My own personal circumstances mean that I am currently retraining in the electrical sector... I am a mature student at the age of 40...and I have got 20 years of electronic engineering experience, as well as 7 years of study through C&G , ONC and HNC qualifications in other engineering disciplines.

I am now retraining through the Part P Domestic installer, 17th edition, and C&G2395 inspection and testing courses over the period of a few months of courses. My previous engineering training and experience mean that making engineering calculations for ohms law...voltage drop...transposing adiabatic equations and likewise are all second nature. Also, with my skills and knowledge learn't from previous BTEC and C&G courses within engineering, it means there are a lot of 'transferrable skills' which are common to both industries...

I am also going to become a member of one of the competent schemes...get my insurances...and ensure everything is above board... However, I am not under any misconception that I am going to be able to walk straight into customer premises and start doing full house rewiring, or carrying out full periodicals... or taking on large scale jobs. On the contrary...I am organising to go out on the tools with a fully trained spark for a few months to gain the essential practical experience before making a decision to go out on my own...

I understand everyones comments (and anger) on this subject...and that there are also many cowboys out there currently practicing bad electrics ... However, i don't think it is appropriate to group everyone in the same bracket... who decide to retrain and to take their hand to this route of training...there are also many experienced and clever guys that are taking this domestic installer route of training !

You can't really call yourself a Electrical Trainee can you?? As you say yourself, you have quite a few transferable skills, you will also have a knowledge of the industry, as your skill base isn't a million miles away from that of an electrician either.

Doesn't Matter how clever anyone is, if your a mature guy, that has come from say an office based occupation, banking, insurance and the like isn't really the same thing or the same as your situation is it?? Many of these types of mature students are being cohered into the electrical industry by training centres convincing them to part with redundancy monies to retrain in 5 Weeks on the promise of being competent an high monetary rewards.

So think about it, these guy's have gone from working in an office for maybe 20 years, many never even handling a screwdriver. And 5 weeks later and a few thousand quid lighter, thinking they are competent electricians!! And what makes it even worse, you have these Scam Providers reinforcing that belief by giving them a pseudo official registration confirming that competency. Every man and his dog knows that this just isn't possible, but they are still officially recognised as such, by the LABC's and other bodies...

No you can't lump/group everyone into the same bracket, but then you can't easily differentiate between newcomers either. The truth is, there are very few newcomers into the industry that have the the required training and experience. Most of the available training these day's has been specifically geared towards this numbty designation ''Domestic Installer'' ....What's one of those one might ask, ...certainly not a qualified electrician

 

[ipf]

You would think that the people employed by these so called 'training organisations' as lecturers, or whatever, have been brought up in the trade. If so, they are selling their fellow tradesmen down the river. Anything for cash and no thought whatsoever for those who matter. It's alright the authorities going on about a lack of tradesmen, but a decent grounding is required rather than a quick fix.

 

[Guest112]

all i can say is i have a jib gold card the Electrical Trainee dont i have 2391 they dont i can work in commercial and industrial environments they cant unless the pick up a brush and start cleaning up behind the real sparkies lol

 

[gdr7671]

I like these practising Electrical Trainee that have NO IDEA at all, because then recommendation for a decent electrician leads on to me, and I go and do the job properly.

What I really do not understand is that although someone can pass the BS7671 and 2391 in a classroom has no idea on how to remove floor boards, chase a wall use a hammer and chisel. They should not be allowed out on their own without some sort of general skills, there should be a bolt on course that covers that, a bit like the theory and practical driving test.

which is NVQ3 and AMT2

 

[stv292]

i'm a DI, i work 4 on 4 off. have done a lot of house bashing over the last 10 years inc plastering and woodwork on my 4 days off, renovated 2 of my own houses. wanted to learn about electrics so took a course. the course told me what i needed to learn and where and how to find the information. i never go into a job blind i always research what i gotta do 1st, i work with an experianced electricians mate who's installation skills are second to none, so i dont take on any work on my own, confident in testing and will continue keeping my head in the books most nights, all cable calcs are written in the back of my on site guide. haven't finished courses yet and will try to do at least one a year..
having 4 days off gives me time to plan a job and not to rush it.
go easy on me