Discuss What percentage of Sparks voted Brexit? in the Business Related area at ElectriciansForums.net

A post was made that suggested only brexiteers were duped with lies and misinformation.
Let's just make a few clear points about remain camps attempts including national governmental bodies who should remain impartial to the vote.

-The public purse was raided of 10million pound for a pro-EU leaflet campaign.
(Reality Brexit campaign get found guilty of overspending of half a million on the campaign budget of 7 million, remain campaign remain silent throughout as they really have no grounds to complain given the extra monies pumped into remain campaign through the back doors by the likes of Soros etc and no mention of the 10million above)
-Obama declared the UK would be at the back of the queue if we voted Brexit even though he would not be in office thus has no grounds to make such claims (how did that work out ;) )

-Cameron claims brexit could lead to Europe declining into war, there is no evidence to suggest such and is based on nothing more than historical values in times when many countries in Europe were political enemies of which they are not now. (Reality - nothing has changed that wasn't already an issue in Europe, member states rebutted the comment expressing we live in different times and it is unlikely we will see a return to those days regardless of brexit)

-Bank of England makes a statement that even the vote of Brexit would almost certainly bring on another recession (it didn't happen and was not based on any credible evidence, it was a political address that the BoE are not supposed to do, by law they should be impartial, they claimed they had concerns and needed to express them - no action was taken on this breach of office and since then have done it a few more time without consequence, noted all in Pro EU position of fear if we left) since this the BoE has failed twice more in its predictions making anything it says on Brexit holds little credible value. (Reality - no recession, BoE admits it had plenty of reserves to cope Oops they failed to mention that and in fact since then the UK has seen record foreign investment in 2017)

-Treasury backs the BoE on recession claims and add that we can expect half million job loses on the vote alone, this is based on selective information and worst case scenarios of which they failed to mention (reality - employment went up to record highs).

I could go on and yes there were plenty done by Brexit but my point is that this was not one sided and we were given just as much if not more lies and fearmongering from remain.
Since the vote only 1 in 10 of the project fear came to fruition on the vote alone and that was the pound value but we have a floating pound and you don't need to be a rocket scientist to predict the market on that and on the pound, it has its positives for been low like boosted exports, a high pound in reflection which we had damaged our exports although inversely for both imports see the opposite effect (reality - most remainers point out that they get less alcohol abroad per pound so they were right and the world is falling in ;) ).
 
that would have taken me about an hour. then another half hour correcting.
 
Oh yes, the "brainwashing and propaganda" - anyone who votes Tory is not only a "nasty racist bigot", but a "stupid nasty racist bigot" who needs to be told who to vote for, unlike those clever university professors who make a living out of reading books and watching telly instead of providing services which people will pay for.

... And the Tories want to privatise the NHS. Any day now. They're building up to it.
 
@johnduffell

'Seems no one is debating whether we could or should have a better EU, it seems to be a more fundamental argument than that.'

It would be a nice thought but here lies the problem, the EU has a design plan, it was hidden for decades and denied and only now have they admitted their goal, anyone or thing gets in the way of this direction is forced to take it one way or another. If you do you EU history you will be shocked at the way they treat members who oppose the EU ideology and on many occasion the EU has ignored or forced reruns on democratic votes, it is no coincidence the way the trade talks are going, it is not at all in their interest to allow brexit to happen in full and they will try anything to keep us aligned or in the customs union to preserve power and control over our destiny.
 
So dark wood i guess that's a : yes you'd like some kind of better common organisation for common good (i shouldn't have called it a better EU) but you don't believe it's possible (without starting from scratch? or at all due to the nature of large organisations? or due to cultural difference across the countries?)
 
The eu is a spent force it just doesn't know it yet. Their arrogant posturing on a daily basis and anti british daily briefings about how we need to accept eu reality is
Spiteful. They can't seem to accept that anyone wouldn't want to be a member of their club. But all they are really bothered about is our subscription fees.
Its easier to leave the mafia than extracate yourself from the e.u.
As soon as we are out there will be a stampede of other nations wanting out.
As ever it will be Britain that leads the way in Europe.
 
@johnduffell

When we joined it as the E.E.C. was presented as purely a trade group designed to bring countries together to make trade better and easier, it then became the EU that used power creep and an ideology that destroyed many of the original benefits that existed, it became a controlling entity and no longer was seen as simply a trading agreement, a few decades on it became all to obvious why as they revealed their plans for a superstate EU with its own army, one currency and one overall governing body, this plan can only be achieved if member release all individual powers over, if we all sign up to the common currency and if we surrender democracy and sovereignty.
We can only have what was originally on the table like the E.E.C if either we leave and set up a separate trade deal or the EU disbands and reverts back to a simple trading body and gives back all powers and controls to each nation member.

What are the chances of the EU back stepping 3 decades --- zero imho, it would have to collapse to get anywhere near, it is run by too many deluded stubborn ideolistic minds who are power hungry so that only leaves the option to leave regain all that was lost and set up a individual trade deal.

Many say it's impossible to have our cake and eat it yet the EU has shot itself in the foot twice recently by giving Canada and Japan exactly this, over 95% free trade without commitment to the ECJ ruling, freedom of movement or been a member of the customs union or single market.. these 2 countries trade a 10th of what the uk does and we have the advantage of having a massive trade deficit to lever a better deal, the only thing blocking that deal is the EU itself which is intent on us remaining in the customs union in some form or fashion, it will maintain its sluggish stance and dismissive attitude until the 5mins to midnight when it has exhausted all options - my worry is we have May who is a remainer at heart and she seems to be dancing to the EU's song here and trying to keep us tied to EU customs regulatory control meaning we haven't left and cannot make those trade deals across the world without EU intervention IE Bexit in name only, that is why we saw Boris and Davis resign as they know this is not Brexit what she has proposed - it is likely the EU will play ball on it as they keep customs control yet she is taking a massive gamble in defying the electorate decision hence she is presenting it as what we asked for when it clearly is not.. she is relying on the publics general lack of understanding here to keep here position... it gets me how she has to both keep the brexiteers happy and the remainers happy at the same time - no she doesn't, Brexit won and those are the ones you need to keep happy, remainers need to learn what a democratic decision is and why it is the core of our society, undermining it will carry forward consequences that could destroy public confidence in our whole system for decades to come.
 
What gets my goat is I was against the EU long before Brexit was ever conceived, it wasn't a daily topic in the biased media (on both sides) yet it influenced everyone's lives, now I get accused of been racist, bigoted, brainwashed, deluded by a brigade of beermat experts who probably didn't have the first clue about the EU until 'we' voted to leave... all of a sudden my decades of interest and following of EU politics is irrelevant and they act like they are the all knowing oracles, the superior knowledge.
Don't get me wrong I appreciate and respect anyone's opinion but simply disagreeing with a post and not bringing anything to the table to support your own opinions is not making for a strong defence. (PS no aimed at anyone, just generalising)

The very fact we were taken into the EU through an illegal arrangment and act by Edward Heath seems to be lost, as it was illegal we are not for all intents or purposes a legal member of the EU but I guess the 10billion a year they received was a nice way to overlook that technicality.
It is and always has been part of the British law that what Heath did should have been done by consultation of the people either with a referendum or general election, he didn't and when asked many yrs later why he never asked the people or his own party he responded 'because they would have said no'. Its so ironic the storm this kicked up at the time that when we actually do give the people the say as is required by law then we have an outcry of people complaining we didn't know what we were voting for, I have yet to find 1 person who fits that claim.
 
Well that balances nicely Adam, all us 'whiney, self-loathing lefty sheep' were brainwashed by leftie teachers at school.

LOL the difference here is there are strong statistics to back that claim up, their are certain trades, industries and positions that tend to be dominated by left wingers

Teaching
Acting
Singers
Comedians etc ... it's not just a accusation it is very real, the real question that needs asking is whether as in a teacher this effects the way they teach and evidence suggests they do indeed promote more liberal left views and tend to shut down right wing views... quite disturbing to be honest that you are institutionally taught in a left wing environment.
How Politically Biased Is Each Industry? Check These Charts - https://mic.com/articles/103600/how-politically-biased-is-each-industry-check-these-charts#.Y9ewaG9rz
 
Just to add, this is why most comedy and satirical panel shows are very left wing attitudes, take your pic the list is endless regardless of channel but try to find a right wing biased comedy panel show and get back to me ;) .... there are right wing comedians but they are a rare find and usually keep quiet given the left wing atmosphere they tend to mingle in, it can see you black balled even in this day and age... the irony is its funny watching them all squirm knowing they are not in power and the best they can do is Corbyn and Abbot :D now that's entertainment :)
 
What gets my goat is I was against the EU long before Brexit was ever conceived, it wasn't a daily topic in the biased media (on both sides) yet it influenced everyone's lives, now I get accused of been racist, bigoted, brainwashed, deluded by a brigade of beermat experts who probably didn't have the first clue about the EU until 'we' voted to leave... all of a sudden my decades of interest and following of EU politics is irrelevant and they act like they are the all knowing oracles, the superior knowledge.
Don't get me wrong I appreciate and respect anyone's opinion but simply disagreeing with a post and not bringing anything to the table to support your own opinions is not making for a strong defence. (PS no aimed at anyone, just generalising)

The very fact we were taken into the EU through an illegal arrangment and act by Edward Heath seems to be lost, as it was illegal we are not for all intents or purposes a legal member of the EU but I guess the 10billion a year they received was a nice way to overlook that technicality.
It is and always has been part of the British law that what Heath did should have been done by consultation of the people either with a referendum or general election, he didn't and when asked many yrs later why he never asked the people or his own party he responded 'because they would have said no'. Its so ironic the storm this kicked up at the time that when we actually do give the people the say as is required by law then we have an outcry of people complaining we didn't know what we were voting for, I have yet to find 1 person who fits that claim.

darkwood you might have a point, but the point is you talk too much. Just saying.
 
Just to add, this is why most comedy and satirical panel shows are very left wing attitudes, take your pic the list is endless regardless of channel but try to find a right wing biased comedy panel show and get back to me ;) .... there are right wing comedians but they are a rare find and usually keep quiet given the left wing atmosphere they tend to mingle in, it can see you black balled even in this day and age... the irony is its funny watching them all squirm knowing they are not in power and the best they can do is Corbyn and Abbot :D now that's entertainment :)

You've lived a sheltered life;
:)
 
Was the reality of leaving the EU explained to the voters?not for one moment
Every day something such as the below comes to light.
There is not a day goes by where practical reality goes against the wild claims of those who duped you into voting leave


Asked whether the UK was making plans to stockpile food
Is UK preparing to stockpile food? - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-44972582/brexit-is-uk-planning-to-stockpile-food

Regarding new drugs that become available and front line research that drives the industry
Must see this to get a glimpse of what will become of the UK in practice and not what the dreamers have you believe

Brexit guide: Medicines - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-43118667/chris-morris-explores-how-brexit-could-affect-medicines-and-medical-research

Realities such as these are everywhere to be seen and come to light more and more as the silly decision gets ever greater scrutiny

Each day the realities of leaving are finally being made aware to the public

The Irish border was a subject that hardly anybody contemplated, yet this issue (that cannot and will not be resolved) has fearful consequences
The solid border that will "have" to be implemented if we leave,it could restart the troubled times that were so hard fought to leave in the past

You may likely get a second chance to put right your poor decision to leave,don't waste that chance by voting for the silly party once again
 
the question of the Irish border is an issue that should be discussed between the British government and the Irish. the meddling eourocrats need to be told to get their noses out of our business and stick them back into the trough that they feed from, albeit without the millions they.ve been siphoning off us for the lat 40 years.
 
@Des

Firstly on the Irish border, this is one of the biggest red herrings of all it is purposely been blown all out of proportion fuelled by the EU and backed by the Irish PM who is under pressure to follow suit.
Before we joined the EEC that then became the EU we already had an informal common travel area policy which worked fine for all its purposes, we already have a successfully operating financial border without the need for a hard border, let's take N'Ireland for instance, in 2016 it only exported 3billion of goods to the whole of the EU given that it's total exports amount to just under 80billion then it is not a big issue to do the paperwork at source and delivery point as is often done in other EU countries not part of the Customs union, of that 80billion only 4billion goes to Ireland and again the trade is so small it is completely manageable with the suggested methods by our goverment.
Why won't the EU agree, the EU biggest fear is a domino effect, skipping past all the initial scaremongering running up to the vote most of the major financial institutes are reflecting very positive predictions for the UK's future trade position, this is reflected strongly by record breaking investment in 2017 into the UK, any other EU member seeing brexit as a success will take a close look at its own position and especially countries that are suffering under the EU flag like Greece, Italy Spain etc ... making a massive issue out of the Border and even dragging the peace agreement into it will make it look like it's a very bad path to take give all the other EU nations are bordering directly excluding Ireland.
We know this is been overplayed because when Brexit first happened and the first round of talks were taking place, the Irish border was a non issue and even Ireland agreed practical solutions would be easy to implement to keep the borders soft, funny how since the EU needed a desperate reason to stall and try scupper brexit that the Irish PM has U-turned on this and taken the EU's stance, I suggest rather than listen to the voices of the negotiating opposition and the biased reporting of the BBC you talk to the paramilitary for real feedback The ex-IRA men: ‘United Ireland? It’s all guff’ - https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/the-ex-ira-men-united-ireland-it-s-all-guff-1.3041131

The Irony here is the massive elephant in the room regarding the IRA, while people speculate a return to violence over N-Ireland it seems oblivious to the Irish government handing vast amounts of power to Brussels over the last few decades, strange that a group who wants a return to 1 full autonomous Ireland is willingly giving powers away.
 
On medicines, in the eventuality of a no Brexit and a WTO arrangement then we need to ensure we are not going to fall short of medical supplies, it will take a bit of time to arrange things following a no deal WTO result so quite rightly we are taking steps to protect ourselves just in case. I would be surprised if you think getting prepared for both deal or no deal is a bad move.
 
Was the reality of leaving the EU explained to the voters?not for one moment
Every day something such as the below comes to light.
There is not a day goes by where practical reality goes against the wild claims of those who duped you into voting leave


Asked whether the UK was making plans to stockpile food
Is UK preparing to stockpile food? - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-44972582/brexit-is-uk-planning-to-stockpile-food

Regarding new drugs that become available and front line research that drives the industry
Must see this to get a glimpse of what will become of the UK in practice and not what the dreamers have you believe

Brexit guide: Medicines - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-43118667/chris-morris-explores-how-brexit-could-affect-medicines-and-medical-research

Realities such as these are everywhere to be seen and come to light more and more as the silly decision gets ever greater scrutiny

Each day the realities of leaving are finally being made aware to the public

The Irish border was a subject that hardly anybody contemplated, yet this issue (that cannot and will not be resolved) has fearful consequences
The solid border that will "have" to be implemented if we leave,it could restart the troubled times that were so hard fought to leave in the past

You may likely get a second chance to put right your poor decision to leave,don't waste that chance by voting for the silly party once again

Give it up Des, darkwoods humongous dissertations are hurting my head. o_O
 
Your probably right @Midwest ... i have my views and shown why others have there own and tbh no one knows what will be the outcome or what will happen 'positive or negative' I'm sure camp leave will rally on all the positive outcomes and vice versa the remain camp on the negatives for yrs to come but as long as we thrive with a better economy then a few sacrifices are going to be expected from such a massive change.
I just hope we get what the electorate was promised and not a fudged half in half out scenario because that would be bad
 
I'm still waiting. Can't go into realms on that one, can ya. Some people get they priorities all wrong. Get the basics right, everything else will fall into place. :praying:
 
Are you refering to your duty free lol... it's like an earlier comment i made, some people rate the damage of brexit on how much beer they get to the pound on holiday and they think that this is the main priority :eek:
 
Are you refering to your duty free lol... it's like an earlier comment i made, some people rate the damage of brexit on how much beer they get to the pound on holiday and they think that this is the main priority :eek:
theyt should go to turkey. it's nbow 6 lira for a quid, whereas before it was 3. twice as much cat pi$$ for your £.
 
Was the reality of leaving the EU explained to the voters?not for one moment
Every day something such as the below comes to light.
There is not a day goes by where practical reality goes against the wild claims of those who duped you into voting leave


Asked whether the UK was making plans to stockpile food
Is UK preparing to stockpile food? - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-44972582/brexit-is-uk-planning-to-stockpile-food

Regarding new drugs that become available and front line research that drives the industry
Must see this to get a glimpse of what will become of the UK in practice and not what the dreamers have you believe

Brexit guide: Medicines - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-43118667/chris-morris-explores-how-brexit-could-affect-medicines-and-medical-research

Realities such as these are everywhere to be seen and come to light more and more as the silly decision gets ever greater scrutiny

Each day the realities of leaving are finally being made aware to the public

The Irish border was a subject that hardly anybody contemplated, yet this issue (that cannot and will not be resolved) has fearful consequences
The solid border that will "have" to be implemented if we leave,it could restart the troubled times that were so hard fought to leave in the past

You may likely get a second chance to put right your poor decision to leave,don't waste that chance by voting for the silly party once again
The Reality did not need explaining to the majority of the population, it was a very simply question "leave or stay" we voted leave :)
Leave the EU end of.

If thats too complicated I am sure there are some knowledgable people here who could explain it to you in small words so you and your fellow remoaners can understand what the vast majority of people understood two years ago.
As for the rest of your post I am struggling to find anything worthy of a response.
 
Are you refering to your duty free lol... it's like an earlier comment i made, some people rate the damage of brexit on how much beer they get to the pound on holiday and they think that this is the main priority :eek:

At the end of the day, its what floats your boat in your own little bubble.

You don't know the answer, do ya :)
 
was thart when it was the Ottoman Empire.? we went in 2013 and it was 2.8l to £1.
1988, so a while ago. Since then either their economy has drastically improved or they've fudged the figures around a bit.

From 1999 (according to t'internet) this is the 50bin (50,000) Lira coin, so presumably things got worse after I was there, although I'm not saying me leaving had anything to do with it.

50000-50-bin-lira-1999_309_44921533b865346dL.jpg
 
in 2013 we missed our transfer at Dalaman due to the inept areseholes at the airport delaying us ( no we were not smuggling cocaine).taxi was £150 lira which translated to £55.
 
Eh? When I was there it was about 2000TL to the pound sterling!
think they must have had a rethink, like the frogs did back in the 60's where they introduced new Franks, 1 NF being 100 ( or was it 1000) old francs.
 
Wot about my duty free? You so called experts on Remain or Leave, can't even answer such a simple question. You are all talking ******** :rolleyes:
just do what you ( and us) have always done.... smuggle it.
 
The Reality did not need explaining to the majority of the population, it was a very simply question "leave or stay" we voted leave :)
Leave the EU end of.If thats too complicated I am sure there are some knowledgable people here who could explain it to you in small words so you and your fellow remoaners can understand what the vast majority of people understood two years ago.
I'm afraid you're wrong, the reality did and still does need explaining.
No one knew the outcome of leaving and it still needs finalizing, if as you say you know and have allways known then please explain it to Theresa May and the rest of the idiots in the Conservative party. They still havent a clue.

As for the rest of your post I am struggling to find anything worthy of a response.
So, the serious and revelent questions about stock piling of food, medicne and blood, and the NI border are below you?
I suggest that you haven't a clue and are doing what the all the other brexiters are doing and blustering intill it's sorted when you will say you knew all along and this is what you voted for.
 
think they must have had a rethink, like the frogs did back in the 60's where they introduced new Franks, 1 NF being 100 ( or was it 1000) old francs.
Is there a similar story behind the "New Pence" 2p coins that used to be in circulation?
Perhaps because they're a similar size to the old penny?
 
allthis scaremongering about shortages. does it mean i need to stockpile beer?
 

Reply to What percentage of Sparks voted Brexit? in the Business Related area at ElectriciansForums.net

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