which panel schott or schucco !!!

[Ducati]

Hi guys, any one can advise im having a 4kw pv fitted and stuck between schuco poly 225 @ £9995
and schott mono 190 @ £11300 both with a sma inverter
any impartial views which is better thanks

 

[SolarCity]

Do you know which SMA inverter they have priced for?

Let me know and I'll try and give you an idea of how each system is likely to perform.

 

[Ducati]

Hi Big solar , thanks for the reply ,
i'm stuck between 2 systems quoted

1, schuco 18 x215 poly panel giving 3870kw with either a sunny boy 4000TL20 or a 3800 my choice,
@ £9995

2, schott 21 x 190 mono panel giving 3990kw with a sunny boy sb3300 @ £11400,

its doing my head in !!
is it worth paying the extra £1400 ! thanks

 

[SolarCity]

Okay, I've run both systems through my software:

3.87kWp system with 18no. 215 Schuco panels:

With the SB3800: Yields 3,103kWh annually

WIth the SB4000TL: Yields 3,123kWh annually

3.99kWp system with 21 Schott 190 mono panels:

SB3300: Yields 3,440 kWh annually


These figures are based on Birmingham. Where are you based?

 

[Ducati]

hi, thanks for that, i'm in peterborough, total south facing garden, no shade ,
is it worth the xtra £1400 to generate 317w over a time period , what would you have
cheers

forgot to add is it also normal that a 3.99kw system only produces 3440kw thats about 12-15 % loss ?

 

[SolarCity]

That extra would be worth around £160 a year. It's a judgement call.

Do any of the firms seem more professional? Don't let price be the only factor.

Both systems are VERY cheap when compared to the market in general.

 

[solarsavings]

If the guy who has priced the install is Stuart from Norfolk(sounds about right for him),then he is very professional and will do a good job.

 

[Ducati]

I dont know his name , schuco panels is a roofing/electrical company from Essex, and the other schott is local cambridgeshire roofing/electrical, its become a total minefield of quality and junk materials " it looks like its going to be another double glazing issue everyman and his dog doing it, hence i only want German build and the rest is who can do the job professionaly, back up and price
thanks for your advise guys

 

[solarsavings]

Just goes to show how competitive it's getting around this way.

 

[funboy57]

Wonder where these guys buy their kit from thats a incredible price!

 

[Worcester]

Simple, there was a big cancelled governement contract recently (not UK, elsewhere in the EU) and the net effect was that brand new paid for Schuco panels were being sold off to offset the cancelled project costs, minimum purchase a full container, and at prices below normal wholesale and well below what any of the UK wholesalers can buy at. It'll be shortlived and all things will return to normal when the stock's gone.

 

[MorganPVI]

I disagree in part, the market in the south is cut throat and ruthless. Lots of new firms and cheap panel / inverter combos - sub 10k is almost usual.

Fotunately there are still many people who understand you get exactly what you pay for and cheap tier 3 imports with lowest priced inverter is not such a good deal over 25 years.

But it will be nice when the Schuco panel situaton works it way through the market.

 

[Ducati]

Simple, there was a big cancelled governement contract recently (not UK, elsewhere in the EU) and the net effect was that brand new paid for Schuco panels were being sold off to offset the cancelled project costs, minimum purchase a full container, and at prices below normal wholesale and well below what any of the UK wholesalers can buy at. It'll be shortlived and all things will return to normal when the stock's gone.

Thanks for your input , some one of your understanding of the market both systems with a sma 4000tl transformer less, which would you have if it was for you schott or schucco !!! £1400 difference
thanks rob

 

[MorganPVI]

Neither. Sanyo all the way.

 

[Superspark23]

When i worked for an Solar installer we used to travel to a place near Birmingham on a regular basis to pick up pannels I believe they where called all eco energy. My company was based in Norfolk.

 

[cjapeterborough]

Just spotted this thread and am also in Peterborough.
I am not ideal with an ESE facing roof but having done a lot of research over about 3mths the return
makes sense with the pricing that is currently available.
Coincidentally I chose the Schuco 19 X 210 with SMA 4000TL at just under the £10K
Panels fitted today with completion by Sat.
I have been very impressed with the panel installation(completed in a day) and hope this will continue.
There has been some debate re the location of the inverter ie roofspace or near consumer
unit in our linked garage(approx 25m cable run)
This should probably be on another thread of its own but what is best?
Roofspace and have the higher ambient temps and also not so easy to access?? or the DC voltage
drop with the extra cabling(or use higher gauge cable -4mm is cable diameter spec on the
config)
Maybe the 1% loss is not worth worrying about....!

 

[Ducati]

but your refering to hybrid panels or mono, 20% more efficient but so is the price
can you fit a sanyo 4k sytem fitted under 10k !!

 

[cjapeterborough]

If you download the sunnydesign software you can model various panel scenarios.
Loading 4kw sanyos/schuco/schott etc will show you the output differences per annum
for a south facing roof unshaded with the 4000TL

Schott 190 mono 3514
Schuco 210 poly 3370
Sanyo 250 hit 3429

When I compared the Sanyo hit 250's to the Schuco MPE 210's then the difference for
my ESE location is around 100kwh/a.
It may be more or less but the Schuco panels have a 0 to +5% tolerance so if I am lucky
then this could be much closer.
looking at the numbers I maybe should have looked at the Schott monos but there are hundreds
to choose from........you pay your money and take your choice!
As sma is probably impartial re panels then I view the comparison data as likley more accurate.
I doubt the differences per annum will be recovered against the extra initial cost outlay
unless you intend to live signifcantly longer than another 25 years.
If you have the roof size then the panel choice is easier imho re value

 

[MorganPVI]

I'm confident that over the course of 25 years installing Sanyo panels will be the best option, i've put my money where my mouth is.

I can fully understand people wanting smaller up-front costs but I feel Sanyo is worth the extra mone not only for the quality and performance but for the 10 year guarantee and the piece of mind it provides.

Ducati - you have a great system and very good price, i'm sure you'll be very happy with, but for me Sanyo is the way I wanted to go.

 

[cjapeterborough]

I think you will find that the Schuco guarantee is slightly better at 5year,12year 90% output and 25year 80% versus 5year 10year 90% output and 25 year 80%?

Dont get me wrong the Sanyo panels I believe are the best however I wouldnt consider the cost differential worth it as up front cost are probably 15-20% more.

There is always a place for premium branding but the risk is less business and lower market share ultimately.

When the uk market is expanding so fast perhaps there is plenty of business to go around,but without doubt it will get more and more competitive with money to be made- until the government uturns or reduces the fit benefits off course.

 

[MorganPVI]

I was refering to the 10 warranty on the frames, not the power output. undoubtably it is nice to have a power warranty but the strucual integrity of the panels is far more important in my opinion. Also it is difficult to compare a 210w Schuco panel to a 250w Sanyo, your going to have to buy an extra Schuco to make up the numbers

We've calculated that it would take 6 - 10 years of +20% generation to cover the extra up-front cost. Due to the link to RPI, 20% extra generation at 2021 FIT payment level, also considing the potenial cost of electric in 2021, extra generation is going to be very, very valuable. Even if you invested the up front savings I don't think you could match the potenial returns in 10 years time.

It really is horses for courses, and difficuly to say one panel is better than the other due to the multiple variables.

 

[cjapeterborough]

The datasheet on the Segen site for the HIT-H250E01 states 5 years for workmanship not 10 unless I am looking at the wrong or old panel?

If indeed there is a 20% differential in performance per 4kw system then the additional 15% cost would be justified however everything I
have seen and read about this has made me believe the differences are likely in the 5% range.

If you look at Sanyo's output spec it is -5 to +10% so if you are unlucky you end up the same or really lucky maybe 10% better.
I prefer the panels that show minimum output with the likelihood of a +ve upside ie "they can be no worse than"

If you look at the UkSolarCaseStudy site there are 7 user systems with unbiased historical data with a cross section of manufacturers panels.

The reality is that most are over achieving on expectation and £ in the end there is little to chose between them other than the price paid at point of sale.

Systems purchased this time last year >£15K now £10K seems to be the benchmark I'm afraid.

I was refering to the 10 warranty on the frames, not the power output. undoubtably it is nice to have a power warranty but the strucual integrity of the panels is far more important in my opinion. Also it is difficult to compare a 210w Schuco panel to a 250w Sanyo, your going to have to buy an extra Schuco to make up the numbers

We've calculated that it would take 6 - 10 years of +20% generation to cover the extra up-front cost. Due to the link to RPI, 20% extra generation at 2021 FIT payment level, also considing the potenial cost of electric in 2021, extra generation is going to be very, very valuable. Even if you invested the up front savings I don't think you could match the potenial returns in 10 years time.

It really is horses for courses, and difficuly to say one panel is better than the other due to the multiple variables.

 

[MorganPVI]

No, your looking at the right panel. Sanyo made the announment recently and probaly Segen / Sanyo have not updated the sheets.

We keep a close eye on the solarcase study page, as we installed one of the systems that is linked on the site. Looking to add some of our Sanyo installs to give a comparison, because nothing but actual results will settle the numerous debates on panels.

 

[whlphil]

If your making the choice between Schott / Schueco I'd go Schott as they are German made cells, the Schueco are good well made frames (as they should be Schueco make aluminium window frames and they are good at it) but the cells are chinese and assembled in china, I think it'll be worth it for the piece of mind alone.

The Schott do perform better in PVSOL - REC (from Norway) are another good option that will perform even better than the Schott at a similar price, but like the guys have said if it was my money on my house (as a PV man) then I would be installing Sanyo with Fronius inverters, all the german installers I know say the same thing!

 

[Narrowfocus]

Hi, Ducati: I'm in the Cambridgeshire area and currently getting quotes on pv panels etc for my house. Would you be able to let me know which installers gave you your quotes? I've had quotes from Solaressence and Playfords so far.

 

[Ducati]

Hi there, sorry about the delay ,i have not been near the comp for a while
my sytem was finaly installed this week and up and running and it only took 1 day mechanical and electrical incl commisioning, but the best part it did not take 3 weeks to get the mcs cert which is an issue about fits so the sooner this is achieved the quicker you start earning money , within 2 days ,emailed and hard copy sent.
who ever you use get this sorted quick ,hold back some money till your completely happy ,and it gives you the edge,
I am completly happy with the service , few problems ,but were resolved
company called www.greenerpowersolutions.co.uk based in Essex. 2 directors Basim office and Floyd on site. clean ,quick and efficient , back up service is always a stab in the dark you never know until you call them who ever they are. £9995 for a 4 kwh system sma 4000tl-20 bluetooth inverter best deal on the market yet,

Hi, Ducati: I'm in the Cambridgeshire area and currently getting quotes on pv panels etc for my house. Would you be able to let me know which installers gave you your quotes? I've had quotes from Solaressence and Playfords so far.

 

[Ducati]

you can never please every one ,because we all think different but want the best for the least.
so many parrameters to consider. adjust the angle of panel by 3-5 deg and performance changes by a 1%. i am south facing ,no obsticles sun all day, " when it shines" and pay back is 6 yrs for me, longer if you pay more ,and you benefit by £100-£200
so for me it works. but i would like to thank all out there for there input.

 

[iqdiving]

Hi
Which panel should I buy the shortlist is schuco MPE 245 MS 96 or REc 245 Pe both with a SMA 4000TL need to move pretty quick re 3 March.
Brain cooked and can't make my mind up, can't afford sanyo so has to be one of these.
cheers
Pat
:welcome:

 

[cjapeterborough]

More or less the same decision I had last year -I went for Schuco but mainly on price in the end as I would have preferred the REC (better performing panel and available in black now I believe)
At about £1200 differential at the time and perhaps 150kwh per annum performance difference at most its 20years at least to get the difference back.
I havent been dissappointed with the Schuco and should hit around 3500Kwh for the year and the roof isnt ideal just slightly south of east in Peterborough.
IMHO panels if the panels are mcs approved the differences between them are small in reality.

 

[SolarCity]

IMHO panels if the panels are mcs approved the differences between them are small in reality.

More and more I am starting to think that this isn't the case. The difference between our best performing modules and worst performing modules is starting to show. Our worst performing install - by some distance - is the Sharp 185s (which happen to be on my roof :-( ) and the Sanyo installs seem to be far outperforming our other installs. We've installed a lot of Linuo panels and they're performing very well too - just haven't got annual figures for them yet.

As for Iqdiving's question.

I'd strongly go for REC panels but they should be a little cheaper than the Schuco.

 

[whlphil]

[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Go REC you won't regret it, I was in the factory at the weekend in Singapore the quality control is fantastic, all robot handling so little risk of human induced problems![/FONT]

 

[cjapeterborough]

My main point remains the same even if say Sanyo outperform by say 10% pa this in real money is £70 pa extra (or who knows with FIT changes) so you will never get your money back............
From the previously published Photon survey results that I looked at last year there are probably 20 different panels that are all within 5% and from memory the REC panels came out top btw

 

[iqdiving]

Hi Guys
Thanks for that it looks like its going to be the REC's then. My roof is south facing at 33 deg with no shading. The guy is fitting 16 245 rec panels on schuco mounting and the sma 4000tl inverter in the loft all at £9999 and is throwing in a sunny beam monitor.

This is the best price i have had and he is local is this a good deal?
Pat

 

[cjapeterborough]

Sounds a pretty good deal although you dont really need the sunnybeam as a bluetooth dongle and sunnyexplorer does an excellent job on its own and is FOC
I paid just under £10K for the 4KW Schuco (with the 4000TL)the REC quote was just over £11K and I worked very hard to get the best deal at the time.

 

[whlphil]

We've done a few REC 245 / SMA 4000TL systems its a nice match we've had some stonking output curves, price is good, remember its about yield / price performance over a lifetime so its all about how long it lasts and how well it performs over a lifetime. Ive no qualms about REC's ability to last a lifetime.

 

[iqdiving]

Hi
Just a quick update the Rec 245pe and sunnyboy 4000tl commisioned this morning at 1100hr and produced 8.51kwh by sutdown this evening. I think this seems very good. I know its early days but seems like a good system match.
cheers again for the advice.