Wholesaler prices lately.

[nicebutdim]

The funny thing is, I work in a few different areas and its the independent type wholesalers that are usually the best with pricing, I walk into them with a fear that I'm going to get shafted but they always seem to treat you great, I managed to get a Crabtree shower pull from an independant the other week and it was the cheapest one I've ever bought. Its the "chain" type wholesalers that always try to shaft me even though some of them already have my details as I use other branches so its not as if I'm a stranger to them.

I'm not sure why you think they're trying to shaft you. CEF are one of the most well known nationally, and I'm not exactly a fan of their pricing or often lengthy wait at their counters, but they advertise all prices on a website.

Independents and just as the name suggests and free to price goods as they see fit. National wholesalers will have policies, to which staff are obliged to adhere. You and I might not understand or appreciate those policies, but it's likely that they benefit the business. Perhaps they feel it's only worthwhile taking the time to deal with small orders at list price, whereas sizeable accounts are profitable enough to warrant decent discounts? I honestly don't know but, at the risk of repeating the same points, they have significantly higher overheads than online operations and can't hope to match the buying power of large retail chains.

Spend your money where you see fit and don't think too much about how other business owners choose to run their operations.

We buy groceries in Lidl and Asda. I couldn't care less about the prices in more expensive supermarkets.

 

[oscar21]

I'm not sure why you think they're trying to shaft you. CEF are one of the most well known nationally, and I'm not exactly a fan of their pricing or often lengthy wait at their counters, but they advertise all prices on a website.

Independents and just as the name suggests and free to price goods as they see fit. National wholesalers will have policies, to which staff are obliged to adhere. You and I might not understand or appreciate those policies, but it's likely that they benefit the business. Perhaps they feel it's only worthwhile taking the time to deal with small orders at list price, whereas sizeable accounts are profitable enough to warrant decent discounts? I honestly don't know but, at the risk of repeating the same points, they have significantly higher overheads than online operations and can't hope to match the buying power of large retail chains.

Spend your money where you see fit and don't think too much about how other business owners choose to run their operations.

We buy groceries in Lidl and Asda. I couldn't care less about the prices in more expensive supermarkets.

Its because wholesalers should (and used to be) the go to place to get your stuff. If you were a DIY'er you went to B&Q or more recently screwfix/toolstaiton, if you were in the trade you went to a wholesaler and got things cheaper than the DIYer or householder so you could make a markup on it which paid for the time and effort of sourcing it and getting it.

Nowadays wholesalers are just a retail outlet trying to maximise their proffits in any way they can.

 

[pirate]

Starbucks and Costa...best example ever. There's a book about it, and it makes interesting reading. I am fortunate with my occasional work, so I don't have the hassles of wholesalers and 30 or 60 day credit, however I well remember the collapse of a huge contractor in Scotland who just went bust owing hundreds of small businesses lots of money...the Laff**ty group killed so many small guys, and nothing could be done. Rule One: Do not put all your eggs in that one basket.
Rule two: If you do occasional stuff, get paid for materials up-front...or at least before they are installed.
My local jobs are for a few clients. They ask for a quote, I give it, and if they accept it I bill them for the materials, and once that's paid I do the work. They always pay me my labour costs promptly because nothing works until I am paid...I have the "key".
The beauty of this model is that they know I will do the job properly, so they don't fek about when it comes to paying.
Thus, wherever I buy the cable or other accessories, the cost, without uplift, is the price I have paid to the supplier, which is important to the client, particularly when the customer is a charity.
The only possible points of contention are:
1. The supplies might be cheaper elsewhere
2. I am too expensive
Given these are small jobs, point 1 is not really significant, so if they want me to leave them with the last 5m of a drum of t&e, so be it. It may come in handy for the next job on their site. They've paid for it, so it's theirs.
As for point 2...well, it's their choice...as my jobs are usually small ones, they either take my price or leave it. £200 or £300, it's nothing really.
I fully appreciate my situation isn't the most common one, but thought it might be worth mentioning it, because as a model for business, it suits me very well and may suit those who are not working 24/7 to support a family, such as a retired bloke like me who does it for fun.
I go to Screwfix and pick up the cable and accessories...ok, it's £20 more than last week...but it's only £20 on the bill.
For those who do huge contracts, that's a big problem. If you are buying 10 drums of 2.5mm, or 100 drums even, there's a huge cost differential. If you stick to small jobs, the cost isn't too significant.
Small is beautiful!

 

[nicebutdim]

Its because wholesalers should (and used to be) the go to place to get your stuff. If you were a DIY'er you went to B&Q or more recently screwfix/toolstaiton, if you were in the trade you went to a wholesaler and got things cheaper than the DIYer or householder so you could make a markup on it which paid for the time and effort of sourcing it and getting it.

Nowadays wholesalers are just a retail outlet trying to maximise their proffits in any way they can.

Wholesalers haven't changed, but you have and so has the world. Wholesalers are doing what they have always done.

 

[LukeD]

Wholesalers haven't changed, but you have and so has the world. Wholesalers are doing what they have always done.

UK should be like certain parts of the world .where many items cannot be sold to members of the public as id has to be shown .mainly gas, water and electrical stuff . And should a client ever pull out a screwfix etc catalogue out and question a quote it would be 'Have it all here the day before I start work .None of it will carry any form of warrantee from me and anything missing or wrong needs to be sorted out by you and if necessary a hourly rate will be charged if it slows down the job."


You dont take your own meat and veg to a restaurant !

 

[DPG]

UK should be like certain parts of the world .where many items cannot be sold to members of the public as id has to be shown .mainly gas, water and electrical stuff . And should a client ever pull out a screwfix etc catalogue out and question a quote it would be 'Have it all here the day before I start work .None of it will carry any form of warrantee from me and anything missing or wrong needs to be sorted out by you and if necessary a hourly rate will be charged if it slows down the job."


You dont take your own meat and veg to a restaurant !

I get your point. But don't you think I should be allowed to repair the brakes on my car as I have for many years? It's only the same thing.

 

[oscar21]

Wholesalers haven't changed, but you have and so has the world. Wholesalers are doing what they have always done.

They have changed, do you not remember years ago, the manufacturer would send a rep round to the wholesalers or even retail outlet and had a price list, one one page was the price list you could buy stuff from the manufacturer for, and on the next page was the price list for what you could sell it for, you had to adhere to these prices otherwise the manufacturer wouldn't deal with you. It stopped loads of undercutting and driving other business's out of existence just for pure proffitt.

 

[Dustydazzler]

There is no way the sale of cable and pipe will be restricted , not a chance

 

[nicebutdim]

UK should be like certain parts of the world .where many items cannot be sold to members of the public as id has to be shown .mainly gas, water and electrical stuff . And should a client ever pull out a screwfix etc catalogue out and question a quote it would be 'Have it all here the day before I start work .None of it will carry any form of warrantee from me and anything missing or wrong needs to be sorted out by you and if necessary a hourly rate will be charged if it slows down the job."


You dont take your own meat and veg to a restaurant !

While you raise a valid point about gas, electric and water, I don't like the idea of regulation for this reason and the argument is somewhat undermined when you go on to clarify the actual objection to be one based on profit.

There are plenty of tradespeople who are happy for customers buy materials as it helps ensure their turnover remains below vat threshold and, perhaps cynically, places onus on customer where warranty of materials is concerned.

In days gone by, a system (similar to that which you describe) existed and was self-regulating. Wholesalers only discounted prices to proven trade customers and only discounted by a significant margin where large accounts were concerned. This served wholesalers well as small customers went to a convenient distributor and availed of the same prices, while ensuring wholesale trade counter wasn't overburdened with small orders. Those distributors made a profit and appreciated that the wholesaler stuck rigidly to this model and allowed the distributor to make a profit. Small trade customers were happy as they received a discount, but...

those small trade customers were paying through the nose. In many instances, a manufacturing customer or distributor received huge discounts of anything from 25%-80% (depending on product range in question), while the little guys received maybe 5%-20%. Retail customers paid list price and it is important to acknowledge who set these list prices - the wholesaler.

You often make the point that you choose who to work for and who to avoid, well that's often what wholesalers do. The only difference being they don't decline your business, but accept it at a price they deem to be agreeable. I find it incredible to learn that, instead of being happy with the huge range of options now available in terms of suppliers, anyone might wish to return to the days when few options existed for the procurement of goods.

 

[nicebutdim]

They have changed, do you not remember years ago, the manufacturer would send a rep round to the wholesalers or even retail outlet and had a price list, one one page was the price list you could buy stuff from the manufacturer for, and on the next page was the price list for what you could sell it for, you had to adhere to these prices otherwise the manufacturer wouldn't deal with you. It stopped loads of undercutting and driving other business's out of existence just for pure proffitt.

So your issue is with manufacturers no longer fixing prices (now illegal) and other oulets selling too cheaply?

Forgive my confusion, but you initially stated that wholesalers should sell to you at lower prices and now lament the demise of the days when they had to sell at a minimum price.

If you're worried about 'loads of undercutting and driving other business's out of existence just for pure profit. then surely you'd want to support the wholesalers who are hammered on price by large DIY chains?

 

[oscar21]

So your issue is with manufacturers no longer fixing prices (now illegal) and other oulets selling too cheaply?

Forgive my confusion, but you initially stated that wholesalers should sell to you at lower prices and now lament the demise of the days when they had to sell at a minimum price.

If you're worried about 'loads of undercutting and driving other business's out of existence just for pure profit. then surely you'd want to support the wholesalers who are hammered on price by large DIY chains?

No because they didn't have the same pricelist for everyone. Trade places would have to sell at trade rates which would be the same as other trade places and retail outlets would have to sell at retail prices and wholesalers wouldn't be able to sell to the public, it was just a fairer way of doing things, you knew what price you would pay almost before you even walked in the door.

 

[nicebutdim]

No because they didn't have the same pricelist for everyone. Trade places would have to sell at trade rates which would be the same as other trade places and retail outlets would have to sell at retail prices and wholesalers wouldn't be able to sell to the public, it was just a fairer way of doing things, you knew what price you would pay almost before you even walked in the door.

I'm no longer certain of the issue under discussion, but have commented at length on the original points raised and don't feel I can add much to that.

 

[Marvo]

........In many instances, a manufacturing customer or distributor received huge discounts of anything from 25%-80% (depending on product range in question), while the little guys received maybe 5%-20%. Retail customers paid list price....

We have at least 2 suppliers where we get 60% discount or more from the list price or official retail price. It's mostly main agents for EU origin motors, pumps and compressors etc they sell. Ive never understood how the retail price could be 2.5 times higher than the trade price.

 

[ipf]

Its because wholesalers should (and used to be) the go to place to get your stuff. If you were a DIY'er you went to B&Q or more recently screwfix/toolstaiton, if you were in the trade you went to a wholesaler and got things cheaper than the DIYer or householder so you could make a markup on it which paid for the time and effort of sourcing it and getting it.

Nowadays wholesalers are just a retail outlet trying to maximise their proffits in any way they can.

That's why you don't get the same range of stock, too.
Anything that's been standing on the shelves for long at audit time is just got rid of, one way or another, to make room for more saleable items.
I'm talking long before B&Q and ages before Screwfix....when trade price at a wholesalers was the cheapest.......FOR A TRADESMAN.
Some asked for ID and folk off the street were turned away, even people from other trades.

 

[nicebutdim]

We have at least 2 suppliers where we get 60% discount or more from the list price or official retail price. It's mostly main agents for EU origin motors, pumps and compressors etc they sell. Ive never understood how the retail price could be 2.5 times higher than the trade price.

Clearly much depends on how a wholesaler chooses to structure pricing, but large distributors and equipment manufacturers would usually receive greatest discounts. The former allows for sub-distribution.

Smaller distributors, manufacturers and trade customers would receive lower discounts, generally on a sliding scale commensurate with the level of business received anually.

'Retail' prices are plucked out of thin air or, more accurately, based on a large mark up of supplier ex-works pricing. If a trade customer finds out one of their customers has bought directly from the wholesaler, they would expect that pricing would have been identical with their own. When things worked in this way, everyone was (for the most part) happy. If a distributor's customer received a discount directly from the wholesaler, then complained to the distributor about their pricing, you were guaranteed a long and uncomfortable phone conversation.

I guess this system was something of a cartel, but most people were content with how it worked as evidenced by OP lamenting its demise in the electrical trade.

 

[nicebutdim]

That's why you don't get the same range of stock, too.
Anything that's been standing on the shelves for long at audit time is just got rid of, one way or another, to make room for more saleable items.
I'm talking long before B&Q and ages before Screwfix....when trade price at a wholesalers was the cheapest.......FOR A TRADESMAN.
Some asked for ID and folk of the street were turned away, even people from other trades.

That about sums it up. Buy huge quantities of a limited range of items, then pile them high and sell them cheap. Everyone is happy until they need something less common and find the only local source has closed their doors.

If wholesalers want to compete, they'd have to turn over sigificant amounts of shelf space to items on which they'd make minimal profit - in all probability, wholesalers would never be able to buy popular goods more cheaper than large DIY sheds, so efforts to compete would be wasted as trade prices would never be lower than retail prices of those retail outlets.

The only way to restore the old system would be if manufacturers refused to sell as cheaply to DIY outlets, but they'd simply lose sales to other, or 'own', brands.

In 2021, Kingfisher Group (parent company of Screwfix and B&Q) made sales of £13.2 billion globally, whereas in the same year CEF turned over £751 million. Hopefully this helps put the issue in perspective and aids understanding with regard to buying power and why manufacturers might choose to offer preferential prices to certain companies.

 

[LukeD]

Interesting post I read about screwfix .... They 'dodge " retail planning consent as they claim they are only TRADE . THis caused them issues during CV19 and covid grants for retailers !

 

[ipf]

Interesting post I read about screwfix .... They 'dodge " retail planning consent as they claim they are only TRADE . THis caused them issues during CV19 and covid grants for retailers !

Obviously, then, there is still a difference between trade and retail.
So I can't see how they could be trade if they have retail customers.
Maybe, in some cases, you actually can't have your cake and eat it.

B&Q must use 'TradePoint as a separate business, then. Easy to see with it's own counters, I suppose.

 

[oscar21]

Well so much for wholesalers, I need a 6 way 3 phase MCG board this morning and neither of the two closest CEF's have any in stock, it's their own brand, he said I will have to order one online

 

[nicebutdim]

Well so much for wholesalers, I need a 6 way 3 phase MCG board this morning and neither of the two closest CEF's have any in stock, it's their own brand, he said I will have to order one online

45 in stock for next day delivery. Seems they also cater to those who prefer online wholesalers.

6 Way Triple Pole and Neutral Distribution Board with 125 Amp 4 Pole Incoming Isolator Solid Door

4 Pole 125A incomer included

www.cef.co.uk