working away

[terry198920]

Evening all!

Started working away a few weeks ago..If you had work which was away.. And you paid your apprentice/trainee minimum wage..what would you pay him/her to be working away? 12 hour shifts for 5 days.. Commercial jobs.. If thats any help

 

[Octopus]

An overnight allowance plus food. Maybe a bit of overtime.

 

[MDJ]

Evening all!

Started working away a few weeks ago..If you had work which was away.. And you paid your apprentice/trainee minimum wage..what would you pay him/her to be working away? 12 hour shifts for 5 days.. Commercial jobs.. If thats any help

A decent wage to start, I don't agree with the minimum wage either, 4 quid odd is appalling, I would recommend you pay him double time for the time away and buy all his beer, food and treat him properly.

 

[terry198920]

Evening all!

Started working away a few weeks ago..If you had work which was away.. And you paid your apprentice/trainee minimum wage..what would you pay him/her to be working away? 12 hour shifts for 5 days.. Commercial jobs.. If thats any help

A decent wage to start, I don't agree with the minimum wage either, 4 quid odd is appalling, I would recommend you pay him double time for the time away and buy all his beer, food and treat him properly.

Minimum wage as in 6:30 ( actually pays a penny less lol ) he currently gives 7:30.. Extra pound an hour..

 

[MDJ]

Minimum wage as in 6:30 ( actually pays a penny less lol ) he currently gives 7:30.. Extra pound an hour..

Well my apologies to you Terry, good man, I like you already.

 

[glasgospark]

i started on £4.28 an hour at 18 £600+ a month in my first year i think thats acceptable especially as your un skilled and learning a trade

 

[terry198920]

The work we do i wouldn't say 'unskilled' left alone to do armoured,Tray work, conduit, trunking 1st fix second fix.. I get what you mean.. Only had 9 months experience but me and the other ' apprentice' are left to rewire houses ect.. It is so easy to get wound up about pay.. But just something that will come with being qualified i suppose.. Doesn't help when he told us 8:50 working away.. And when we got away.. Pay turns up at 7:30 an hour.. Just wondering what other sparks would pay a trainee working away.. Basically electricians mates we are.

 

[Sintra]

Our company pays £1.50 per hour on top of standard rate, pays all accommodation and travel costs plus £35 per day tax free subsistence.

 

[terry198920]

Extra £ an hour we get and £15 a night allowance plus digs

 

[GMES]

Don't forget funds to get em into a gentlemans club

 

[guest119]

And how much is that Glenn????

Boydy

 

[netblindpaul]

I don't see why people should be paid more on their basic rate, for working away, the job is the same wherever it is.
They should be however, paid from door to door, plus mileage if they use their own vehicle, plus accommodation, plus meals, breakfast if leaving home early enough, definitely if in digs/hotel, lunch, if staying away, and evening meal.
These should be at realistic levels, and TBH, breakfast should not be capped, as it will be at the value the accommodation charges.
A small, out of pocket allowance yes, but not too much, else HMRC will be interested.
However, overtime should be paid at reasonable rates.
Travel @ x1 regardless I could live with.
Work over 8 hrs/day should be x1.5 in the week.
Sat a.m. x1.5, Sat pm x2, Sunday & BH x2, with BH plus a day in Lieu with holiday pay.
After & before certain hours, night rates should be paid, at least x1.3.
Times when away should be door to door from/to the hotel also.
The actual base rate they are paid is another debate.

 

[Sintra]

NBP yes you are correct with everything in that statement. Our firm pay an extra £1.50 per hour as goodwill gesture not because they are obliged to.

 

[Dizzy_Maskell]

I don't see why people should be paid more on their basic rate, for working away, the job is the same wherever it is.
They should be however, paid from door to door, plus mileage if they use their own vehicle, plus accommodation, plus meals, breakfast if leaving home early enough, definitely if in digs/hotel, lunch, if staying away, and evening meal.
These should be at realistic levels, and TBH, breakfast should not be capped, as it will be at the value the accommodation charges.
A small, out of pocket allowance yes, but not too much, else HMRC will be interested.
However, overtime should be paid at reasonable rates.
Travel @ x1 regardless I could live with.
Work over 8 hrs/day should be x1.5 in the week.
Sat a.m. x1.5, Sat pm x2, Sunday & BH x2, with BH plus a day in Lieu with holiday pay.
After & before certain hours, night rates should be paid, at least x1.3.
Times when away should be door to door from/to the hotel also.
The actual base rate they are paid is another debate.

People should be entitled to a little extra for working away for the following:

They miss time with their family whilst in hotel rooms

Miss out so coaling with friends

Unable to do jobs around the home so have a weekend to do all house work etc

Miss numerous occasions birthdays etc

Have to arrange extra things due to only one person being home e.g baby sitting etc.

People miss a lot working away but if the employers recognise this and provide accordingly then that's fine but please don't think it's just like a normal day but "away" as there aw lots of other factors to take into account

 

[Sintra]

People should be entitled to a little extra for working away for the following:

They miss time with their family whilst in hotel rooms

Miss out so coaling with friends

Unable to do jobs around the home so have a weekend to do all house work etc

Miss numerous occasions birthdays etc

Have to arrange extra things due to only one person being home e.g baby sitting etc.

People miss a lot working away but if the employers recognise this and provide accordingly then that's fine but please don't think it's just like a normal day but "away" as there aw lots of other factors to take into account

I have missed a hell of a lot through working away. Sports days,kids birthdays, carol services etc etc the list is endless. I'm lucky as I work for an employer who appreciates what I do and what I miss. Saying that when you've worked away for as long as I have it becomes normal.

 

[netblindpaul]

I have worked away a LOT also, I'm not going to get into a slanging match, but why should the same job get more money because you are away in the UK?

 

[terry198920]

every other trade on our site does ..labourers are getting £10 an hour for knocking walls down! My boss gets 15 for home and 25 for working away lol

 

[Octopus]

I have worked away a LOT also, I'm not going to get into a slanging match, but why should the same job get more money because you are away in the UK?

In business, decent employers will often provide a bonus payment for working away and the usual digs/allowance for food. You can't put a value on missing home time. In a previous life I was often away for a week at a time, only seeing my kids on Friday evening and Sat/Sun!

 

[shanky887614]

every other trade on our site does ..labourers are getting £10 an hour for knocking walls down! My boss gets 15 for home and 25 for working away lol

Nothing like that where im working.

Im getting under £4 an hour no overtime pay etc.
Your labourers are better paid than most sparkies where I work inc approved

 

[netblindpaul]

Not what I said, why should the working on the JOB get more money because you are away?
It's the same JOB, whether home or away.
What extra you get for being away, should be different.
The JOB is the same.

 

[trev]

I have worked away a LOT also, I'm not going to get into a slanging match, but why should the same job get more money because you are away in the UK?

You should be compensated for the inconvenience (for want of a better word) of working away. If that is deemed to be a premium on your hourly rate then fine but all incidental expenses incurred should be stumped up by the employer.
A few years ago I had to go and work in Romford, my employer arranged accommodation at (just in case anyone knows it) The Coach House which was very nice but a bit pricey, we all had to pay our own bills then claim it back. The expenses reclaim process often took many days which I didn't think was fair, if an employee has to shell out for everything it's unreasonable imho.
As another example, many years ago I worked in Saudi. Now according to NBP's posts I should have been paid the same rate as a UK spark however, I missed out on a lot of very precious things. Kid's birthdays, family Christmases etc etc. Was it therefore wrong that I expected to be and was paid a lot more than a spark doing an equivalent job on his doorstep?

 

[Sintra]

It's probably easier for an employer to add to your rate rather than add it as an allowance.

 

[netblindpaul]

OK,trev, I give in to your example, I was ONLY talking about UK works, outside the UK, I feel that different rules should apply.

I still say that the job is the same, clarifying. going on trev's post, IN THE UK.

 

[terry198920]

I see both points of view.. But unless you work away yourself ( which u may ) only then do you get frustrated.. IMO working away should be more money simply because you are away from home comforts, family, friends social life.. If nobody else on site got more for working away i wouldn't be too bothered if I'm honest.

 

[Sintra]

That's where I beg to differ. To me working away is anywhere that you aren't going home to your family and comforts. The work is the same I agree but the employers must have all the additional expense factored into their price.

 

[trev]

Paul I see what you're getting at mate but if for example an employer wants me to work away in December, January and February when all the kids, Mrs Trev and me grandson's birthdays are and I'm going to miss them all to service that employer's requirements is it not fair that the company should compensate me accordingly? After all, if they get a contract in another area they could employ temp sparks down there.

 

[MDJ]

When I worked away a few years back we used to work 8 hours and charge 12 to the company, plus they paid for B&B and we always had a job and knock on a friday, sometimes we were home by 2pm and it was pretty good really, you had to graft during the week but definately made money, unfortunately we spent most nights away in the german cruser drinking all the money we made lol

 

[trev]

Working away is crap anyway, you're miles away from everyone you love and the only thing that most of your workmates want to do is go out on the lash which defeats the purpose of working away. Half the time the lads are not the people you would choose to go out for a beer with anyway.
Ok, contact with home is a lot easier now than it was because of technology but talking to a child on Skype is absolutely not the same as being at home reading him/her a bedtime story then getting a cuddle and tucking them in

 

[guest119]

Ive worked away a lot and thats why i need glasses!

Boydy

 

[trev]

Ive worked away a lot and thats why i need glasses!

Boydy

Proof positive that it really does make you go blind

 

[R G]

I worked away from 1992 up to 3 years ago , and I wouldn't recommend it to anybody , most of the time as a subby on price work , but if I had to stay away and employed I would definitely want some payment for it ,

 

[Stuuk1]

Worked away for 2 years solid, back at weekends to see the gf and then off again, sometimes working weekends too.

Was paid 12hrs (7.5 hrs flat rate and the rest time + half). Accommodation, food and one drink paid for by company.

 

[PEG]

I have done the away stints,UK and abroad,and you need and deserve to be recompensed accordingly. When missus become more permanent and kids looked impending,i jacked,save very rare and very expensive exceptions. As mentioned,extra money becomes mesmerising and habit forming,lads drink the slack times and the wifes left back home doing everything including funding a lifestyle that compensates for no partner...as Trev said,there are events in my childrens calendar that i would not have traded for thousands,and those that do,are welcome to it :biggrin5:

 

[trev]

Peg I have to admit that there were many MASSIVE milestones that I missed, first steps, first words, first days at school etc etc. If I had that time again would I do it? Not a bloody chance.
The other side of working overseas is the down time, that's when you get to spend full days with the kids during which you can kid yourself that you're making up for being a part time dad.
That's an itch that can never be scratched

 

[Dcf]

I'm no stranger to an away day and I find it ok for anything between a week and a 4 weeks
after that it becomes a ball ache ( at times)
the jib lodging allowance is/was unrealistic tbf as that was what most firms paid you.
anytime I've been away and had someone with me they get paid a decent rate plus their lodge and food/ beer is on my tab
i did a job for an offshore lad who is out in brazil on a pipe lay ship the week.
he would give anything to get a job onshore so he wasn't away all the time
but he was compensated handsomely though!

 

[wozz]

We get £25 per night for short stay (up to 12 nights) plus food around £30-40 a day plus accommodation. You get paid it as we are site based and can get asked to stay away for training ect.

 

[JD6400]

I have done on average two nights away for the last 7 years , as the MD I am lucky in the respect of being able to chose which days they are or even if I go at all some weeks / even the odd month around Christmas .
But even with that amount of control it is in my opinion no way to live , given the choice !
Although I have not yet missed most of the things with the kids like birthdays and important things at school I have still missed so much even over only those two nights / three days , I have missed other family birthdays and events and even the passing of family members .

And I can assure you that nothing compares to receiving that frantic phone call from your other half , whilst she is waiting for the ambulance to take your 2 week old son into intensive care and thankfully save his life !
On that occasion I managed a 120 mile trip in rush hour traffic to the hospital faster than the ambulance on a 25 mile round trip !

I / We moved from Buckinghamshire ( where I now commute to work ) , up to Lincolnshire . So all of my friends are about if I wanted to socialise whilst at my digs , but personally I could never do so just in case of receiving another call like the above one .

So as far as I see it , whilst agreeing with Netblindpaul about the actual job being the same , I still say it needs to be well rewarded for the inconvenience and stress it causes .

 

[Knobhead]

I rarely worked away from my base.

If I did:
Normal rate + overtime if it was required.
Mileage at the company agreed rate for your own car, otherwise a hire car.
Accommodation 3* minimum.
All meals and in house bar bills.
Entertainment allowance (invoices required) + a small out of pocket allowance. (About £15 per night).

Several times I’ve phoned home (work), “I’m taking XXXX out to dinner. It’s going on my personal card.” “OK it will be covered now we know.”

If the company expected me to entertain people then they issued a company AmEx card.

At the end of the day it’s down to agreement, you want Joe to leave the GF/Wife/Family. Some recompense should be there.

I don’t know what size your company is but working away from family? Do you value you’re employee.
It’s not just the employee, there’s the family to take in to account.

 

[terry198920]

Glad most of us are on the same page

 

[Rockingit]

I've a slightly skewed view on this given my years of touring. In fact, I packed in the touring (more or less) in order to set up the business when I relocated to Somerset and concentrate on family life. That being said, I think I've done 9 nights away from home in Feb on work and there's another half dozen scheduled for March. I'll still keep my hand in if asked and it's interesting.

Your pay is your pay, simple. Why does stripping a cable suddenly become a more worthwhile and costly exercise if it's in Scotland not Brighton? The expectation is that in consideration of being away, you get looked after. Accommodation, meals all at a reasonable standard and some pocket money for beers (known in rock and roll parlance as "PD's - per diems" (daily allowance)).

Two years ago, we took the kids to Disney on hols and the Mrs was reading the departure board at T3 Heathrow looking for our flight...I was reading it for a different reason - there were only three places on that entire board that I hadn't been to on work at some time or another, and that was just one terminal. I can pack for three months in about 10 mins even now, and it's a lifelong obsession to keep duplicate toiletries always packed and ready to go. In fact, I've still always got a semi-(un)packed bag somewhere to hand.

So, to those lads who moan about a couple of nights in a travelodge during the week, wanna try boarding an aeroplane when you're so knackered and half asleep you don't fully know where exactly it's landing or how long you'll be there for? Or do so much of it that you actually need two passports? Trust me...it aint as glamorous as it sounds!! To this day, whenever I call my father on the phone his first question is always 'whereabouts are you?'.

Oh....and this was all before the days of Skype (which now allows me to still do bedtime stories with the little apprentice wherever I may be).

 

[shanky887614]

I've a slightly skewed view on this given my years of touring. In fact, I packed in the touring (more or less) in order to set up the business when I relocated to Somerset and concentrate on family life. That being said, I think I've done 9 nights away from home in Feb on work and there's another half dozen scheduled for March. I'll still keep my hand in if asked and it's interesting.

Your pay is your pay, simple. Why does stripping a cable suddenly become a more worthwhile and costly exercise if it's in Scotland not Brighton? The expectation is that in consideration of being away, you get looked after. Accommodation, meals all at a reasonable standard and some pocket money for beers (known in rock and roll parlance as "PD's - per diems" (daily allowance)).

Two years ago, we took the kids to Disney on hols and the Mrs was reading the departure board at T3 Heathrow looking for our flight...I was reading it for a different reason - there were only three places on that entire board that I hadn't been to on work at some time or another, and that was just one terminal. I can pack for three months in about 10 mins even now, and it's a lifelong obsession to keep duplicate toiletries always packed and ready to go. In fact, I've still always got a semi-(un)packed bag somewhere to hand.

So, to those lads who moan about a couple of nights in a travelodge during the week, wanna try boarding an aeroplane when you're so knackered and half asleep you don't fully know where exactly it's landing or how long you'll be there for? Or do so much of it that you actually need two passports? Trust me...it aint as glamorous as it sounds!! To this day, whenever I call my father on the phone his first question is always 'whereabouts are you?'.

Oh....and this was all before the days of Skype (which now allows me to still do bedtime stories with the little apprentice wherever I may be).

There is a guy on my firm that wanted to work away.

After 2-3 days he was sick of it.

Me and my supervisor were down there mon-fri for about a month,

Did we complain? No, we were there to do a job so that's what we did

 

[terry198920]

Who said anything about complaining? My original post was about wages.

 

[netblindpaul]

I also keep a toiletry bag packed!
Though TBH, it does not bother me these days of 24hr supermarkets, just to call in and buy what I need on the way, client will end up paying if they want me that badly.
I can pack for a week or two by phone, as long as Mrs. is home!
Any longer does take a little thought as to where I am going.
IF your job requires you work away, yes you should be compensated, but, the job is the job, as has been said, terminating a cable is terminating a cable.
Within the UK your rate should cover the work, your PD's as they have been described should cover the rest.
I once had an employee complain that he did not have an overnight allowance, because it was apparently the "done" thing according to his mates.
His "mates" got cheap B&B, and a daily allowance, he got 3/4/5 star hotel, breakfast, lunch, evening meal, & drinks etc. all covered, on receipts.
I sent him packing, there was no way was I paying an "unlimited" expenses bill & giving him an allowance!
He was on an enhanced rate anyway, above that he would have had for working local only.

 

[rmc86uk]

My last job away was back in Jan and it was for only two weeks. I'm a subbie and I think I got £20 a day extra in wages and I got £100 tax free in OTA. But the second week down there we stopped in Travel Lodge and because it was cheaper and more in a room we got slightly more expenses. The problem with this company I have been subbing to for nearly three years is they don't have any structure with wages and expenses. Everyone is on a different rate no matter what Grade they are and you have Mates on more than Electricians. When you work out of town it seems to be job dependant on expenses everytime.

 

[rozzerboy]

Whats OTA stand for?

 

[guest119]

Out (of) town allowance.

 

[netblindpaul]

I suppose that we were less inclined to look for extra, the last time I was employed & working away was 8 years ago & I was on £35k + overtime, and other "stuff", to make it worth my while, amongst which was working from home, co car, phones, internet etc. paid @ home.

 

[UNG]

Having seen it from both sides as an employer and employed there has to be a compromise reached between both parties when it comes to working out of town, as an employer I like to think I looked after the lads that worked for me and treated them as I would expect to be treated as an employee.

There are some urine taking employers out there who expect everything to be done on less than a shoe string and want you to go out of town for peanuts with poor quality accommodation and meal allowances that wouldn't get you a burger and don't want you working more than 8 hours because they will have to pay overtime and then expect loyalty and wonder why people move on. An employer I worked for was like this I was told their staff turnover was low when I started in the 2 and a bit years I was there 28 people had left they only employed 24 people in total. I stopped going out of town when they started disputing overtime payments and travelling time because I could not average 70mph going to sites which would have meant exceeding the speed limits and I see no point going out of town for flat hours I was eventually given the push after a couple of arguments with the directors over promised bonus payments not materialising and on another occasion when one of them hired a 7.5 ton vehicle in and wanted one of the lads who had a post 97 licence to drive it and they also had no operating licence to use it and didn't like it when I pointed out the error of their thinking all quite laughable when the wife of one of the directors was a lawyer and they always cited legal reasons for not working or paying overtime or anything else they could wriggle out of

If employees are treated fair for out of town work then there is no argument but the ground rules have to be negotiated and agreed so no one feels short changed and the job gets done

 

[terry198920]

Well it got better today, pay turned up with a pound an hour less, for the last 2 weeks.. Without even talking to us about it!?? Surely thats not acceptable? Gone from £8.50 to £7:30 to £6:30!!

 

[Octopus]

Are you a spark or an apprentice?? Do you have an employment contract?