NICEIC Certification Scheme 2391 V NICEIC - Whats the point in 2391??

[Dillb]

That’s it, since the scams to light everything seems to have been watered down, these Get rich companies sorry my mistake I meant Electrical Trainee training companies have a lot to answer for too. Yet we seem to just sit back and allow it too continue, 2-3 years ago there was a mass influx of members on here who had gone down that route. Yet when challenged on here we were told if we couldn’t answer their query not to reply at all. I genuinely don’t know what members are like on here now but hopefully we can at least express our opinions and tell people they need to maybe get more help when out of there depth.

I initially joined this forum first time round as I felt I had something to offer to it and will help anyone in any way I can, but if they can’t take that advice on board then what chance do we have?

 

[Strima]

Yet we seem to just sit back and allow it too continue, 2-3 years ago there was a mass influx of members on here who had gone down that route. Yet when challenged on here we were told if we couldn’t answer their query not to reply at all. I genuinely don’t know what members are like on here now but hopefully we can at least express our opinions and tell people they need to maybe get more help when out of there depth.

I'm still here asking stupid questions... Welcome back mate...

 

[Dillb]

I'm still here asking stupid questions... Welcome back mate...

I will be in good company then

 

[JAWS]

I thought the 2391 qualification on a scheme put you on the approved contractors list rather then the domestic installer list.

 

[Dillb]

I thought the 2391 qualification on a scheme put you on the approved contractors list rather then the domestic installer list.

No No No No, the difference between either a “approved contractor” or “domestic installer” is £££££££££ Sadly that is what speaks loudest to the scams and nothing else.

For the record there is no difference between either of them you either a electrician or your not, yet again the scams have created a nothing job to make people sound more qualified than they actually are, I have even been asked if I am a domestic installer before even though they knew I was a electrician by trade.

 

[Dillb]

My apologises massive, didn’t realise you was a trainee when I posted. Please don’t take my post as a dig at you.

 

[JAWS]

My apologises massive, didn’t realise you was a trainee when I posted. Please don’t take my post as a dig at you.

That's absolutely fine Dillb

 

[The Ghost]

I did the 2394/95 with total 11 hours practical and written answers to a set of questions in sections. I am with Stroma (did a year with NIC did not and would not renew) and they do things differently to NIC. If you want to be domestic installer thats one set of requirements and exams. If you want to say you do EICR you must have extra insurance (P.I. £250.000) and 2391 or 2394/95 or they will not "grade you" for that. So I joined the scheme purely to do domestic but mostly do light commercial. So for me it makes sense to join a scheme and have 2394/95. And don't get me started with NIC! Very rude bunch of people, like I am going to pay their exorbitant fees with absolutely no conception of customer service!

 

[Deleted member 26818]

A little bit of history:
The 2391 was introduced by C&G at the behest of the NICEIC as a qualification to be required to be a QS.
As so many failed, the NICEIC dropped it as a requirement.

 

[PEG]

A little bit of history:
The 2391 was introduced by C&G at the behest of the NICEIC as a qualification to be required to be a QS.
As so many failed, the NICEIC dropped it as a requirement.

Yep,i have kept some relevant paperwork,from moons back,where the schemes mentioned,had the 2391 as a "requirement",and a few years later,the blurb stated members should confirm that they are "working towards the 2391"

It would be equally comforting to know,that the surgeon,about to do an eye operation,is "working towards his qualifications"

 

[westward10]

Most years I am asked by these people if I am thinking of doing the 2391, I just stare at them. I have been a QS and still am under the NICEIC ( no longer), ECA and ELESCA and have no intention of furthering my knowledge with it. Having a 2391 means nowt and in have met plenty of people with it who I would deem totally incompetent to do testing.

 

[Midwest]

No No No No, the difference between either a “approved contractor” or “domestic installer” is £££££££££ Sadly that is what speaks loudest to the scams and nothing else.

For the record there is no difference between either of them you either a electrician or your not, yet again the scams have created a nothing job to make people sound more qualified than they actually are, I have even been asked if I am a domestic installer before even though they knew I was a electrician by trade.

Not quite true. NICEIC has domestic installer & approved contractor, whereas Elecsa's has just approved contractor, in their 'Part P' scheme. I think the fees for the domestic installer & Elecsa approved contractor are similar, whereas NIC approved contractor is some more ££'s.

By the way on another subject, I did my electrical apprenticeship in the late 60's, and it was really hard. Not like easy peezy ones that turned up later. I have a wealth of knowledge, that simply surpasses all those that have done their training in the last few years. There's nothing you can tell me about anything, electrically speaking. I don't know why some people bother trying to learn how to be an electrician, 'cos they are on loosing wicket compared to me.

 

[Rpa07]

Or perhaps this one @Midwest!
Ps it’s nothing personal!

 

[Midwest]

Its more like this

Sorry that's telectrix.

This is me

 

[Ian1981]

Most years I am asked by these people if I am thinking of doing the 2391, I just stare at them. I have been a QS and still am under the NICEIC ( no longer), ECA and ELESCA and have no intention of furthering my knowledge with it. Having a 2391 means nowt and in have met plenty of people with it who I would deem totally incompetent to do testing.

If your boss said ‘“hey if I pay for you to do the 2391 will you do it “ would you still not consider it tho?
Might learn something

 

[Ian1981]

Not quite true. NICEIC has domestic installer & approved contractor, whereas Elecsa's has just approved contractor, in their 'Part P' scheme. I think the fees for the domestic installer & Elecsa approved contractor are similar, whereas NIC approved contractor is some more ££'s.

By the way on another subject, I did my electrical apprenticeship in the late 60's, and it was really hard. Not like easy peezy ones that turned up later. I have a wealth of knowledge, that simply surpasses all those that have done their training in the last few years. There's nothing you can tell me about anything, electrically speaking. I don't know why some people bother trying to learn how to be an electrician, 'cos they are on loosing wicket compared to me.

As Ali G would say
Respect!!!

 

[westward10]

If your boss said ‘“hey if I pay for you to do the 2391 will you do it “ would you still not consider it tho?
Might learn something

Maybe and he probably would.

 

[Noaksie]

All the trade bidies "competent persons schemes" are more about membership fees than checking competence unfortunately. The original C&G 2391 inspection and testing exam was not an open book exam. It had a bad name due to the low pass rate. However it did sort the men from the boys!
I passed the original 2391 exam. It was hard work but in my view worthwhile. Going through the motions of the testing not really understanding the tests being carried out is a waste of time.
My view is to test and sign off works as compliant with the regs. Should require passing this exam. I have heard the new version is watered down which is a retrograde step in my opinion.

 

[Noaksie]

All the trade bidies "competent persons schemes" are more about membership fees than checking competence unfortunately. The original C&G 2391 inspection and testing exam was not an open book exam. It had a bad name due to the low pass rate. However it did sort the men from the boys!
I passed the original 2391 exam. It was hard work but in my view worthwhile. Going through the motions of the testing not really understanding the tests being carried out is a waste of time.
My view is to test and sign off works as compliant with the regs. Should require passing this exam. I have heard the new version is watered down which is a retrograde step in my opinion.

 

[Noaksie]

All the trade bidies "competent persons schemes" are more about membership fees than checking competence unfortunately. The original C&G 2391 inspection and testing exam was not an open book exam. It had a bad name due to the low pass rate. However it did sort the men from the boys!
I passed the original 2391 exam. It was hard work but in my view worthwhile. Going through the motions of the testing not really understanding the tests being carried out is a waste of time.
My view is to test and sign off works as compliant with the regs. Should require passing this exam. I have heard the new version is watered down which is a retrograde step in my opinion.

 

[Pete999]

Hi Guys,

A debate at work and im slightly confused and thought maybe someone here may shed some light.

What is the point in doing your 2391 Testing course? Apparently to be NIC Registered you do not need to have 2391 Inspection & Testing & You are able to sign work off.
However if you have your 2391 you are still unable to sign work off as your are not NIC Registered?

It seems all a bit backward if you ask me how can you be unqualified and sign work off? but maybe there is truth in what i am being told.

If so why do the 2391 when you could sign up to NIC for less then half the price.

Thanks Guys

Another retrograde scheme now 2391 has been dumbed down by the Part P CPS IMO

 

[Midwest]

All the trade bidies "competent persons schemes" are more about membership fees than checking competence unfortunately. The original C&G 2391 inspection and testing exam was not an open book exam. It had a bad name due to the low pass rate. However it did sort the men from the boys!
I passed the original 2391 exam. It was hard work but in my view worthwhile. Going through the motions of the testing not really understanding the tests being carried out is a waste of time.
My view is to test and sign off works as compliant with the regs. Should require passing this exam. I have heard the new version is watered down which is a retrograde step in my opinion.

Didn't teach just to hit the button once though, did it

 

[Dillb]

Another retrograde scheme now 2391 has been dumbed down by the Part P CPS IMO

Didnt one of the scams (sorry I must stop calling them that) I mean schemes even run their own "2391" course at one time? If memory serves me correctly it was NAPIT

 

[Pete999]

Don't apologise Mate SCAMS is the right description. 2391 used to be a worthwhile course, now though I'm not so sure!

 

[Midwest]

I expect those taking the newer 2391, might have a different opinion to those expressed.

I took O-Levels when I was at school. Replaced by the much easier less testing GCSE's.

That doesn't mean there's loads of thicko's out there now, does it.

 

[westward10]

Things have definitely been watered down, I never did the 2391 but got a distinction in the 2400. You can only pass what is put in front of you but the biggest failing is people sitting these exams without supplementing it with practical experience from experienced people, that is when you start learning.

 

[Pete999]

I expect those taking the newer 2391, might have a different opinion to those expressed.

I took O-Levels when I was at school. Replaced by the much easier less testing GCSE's.

That doesn't mean there's loads of thicko's out there now, does it.

Quite right, but the dumb down make any exam easier to pass regardless of what exam, it doesn't make the examinees any dumber as you say, but you are correct.

 

[Dillb]

I expect those taking the newer 2391, might have a different opinion to those expressed.

I took O-Levels when I was at school. Replaced by the much easier less testing GCSE's.

That doesn't mean there's loads of thicko's out there now, does it.

You can only do whats in front of you, the problem is there will be more people with the 2391 claiming they are competant testers when there not leading to a saturation of the market. You only have to look at I&T jobs and see they pay a pittance per circuit tested, but those will get filled by those who know no better.

 

[westward10]

I always considered the 2391 to be a dumbed down version of the 2400.

 

[Midwest]

You can only do whats in front of you, the problem is there will be more people with the 2391 claiming they are competant testers when there not leading to a saturation of the market. You only have to look at I&T jobs and see they pay a pittance per circuit tested, but those will get filled by those who know no better.

But in deference to your good self, you're not always going to be around to be testing to 2391. Someone else will take up the baton.

I'll expect them to be moaning about those new young thrusters in 30 years from now.