UK 3rd Party Testing

[AngelLaHash]

I got a TEXT message (i dont know them and i cant find out who they are from the phone number)
"Hi speaking from Indeed
Are you available to give electrical certification for a job at Melton Mowbray?"

Guessing they have seen my CV online on Indeed and found my phone number and wated me to Sign off and Reg some circuits for them that i didnt install!

This is like Dark Area for me, as to me that is 3rd Party and when i talked to Napit about it, they ripped my head off for talking even about it
NICEIC where saying you can do it but Not great to get in to it.

I think the way around it, is if these where People that worked for me and i was just doing the testing and signing off. So i MUST be able to see that the cable is the right size all around the circuit (no chop and change and cheating) as my name is on the Cert. This would be ok.
I played to the rule, but this can be bent a LOT.

JUST me THINKING over the TOP HERE..
If i hire myself to another company just to do the Testing for them and the Report.. is that 3rd Party Testing
But if i Hired these guys to do the Wiring and I tested it that is OK

I did have once a guy offer me £50 to do the testing and Reg the circuit and i said no



Now wondering if i should just twisted things and said im just testing and reporting it than play within the Napit/NICEIC 3rd Party rules (some years ago now) so im not sure what the rules are now.
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I guess it gets complex if i am testing it and its wrong, and i've put my hand prints on it

 

[Mikegh]

Hard to see any upside to testing some randommers work

 

[Dustydazzler]

Unless they are offering up a big bag of cash to give them a certificate for their already finsihed job, I would walk away

 

[westward10]

There is more to this than just testing and as you say you haven't seen the bare bones of the installation. Initial verification is verifying the installation meets the relevant parts of BS7671 and that comprises more than just testing. Walk away.

 

[Retroelectric]

Building control around my area will accept a EICR if there is no Part P sign off so seems pointless registering with a scheme sometimes if its costing you £1200 a year and £4+ per sign off if you can just bang out an EICR for nothing.
Nobody really seems to be following up any work carried out by non certified people as far as I am aware, but willing to be proved wrong.
I wont sign anyone's work off, as why should I be the one who has to have all the books, scheme fees and liability etc because someone else cant be bothered to do it themselves, or shouldn't be doing the work in the first place.

 

[SparkySy]

As with our local BC they too will accept an EICR if the original installer has disappeared or not returned to finish the job! I have done this a couple of times now for customers who have been led down the garden path with all in builders that have had unregistered sparks on their books! But with lots of not verified's in boxes on the report as how do I know where the cables have been routed or what lurks beneath the surface, and I don't like doing it!

I wouldn't put a part P cert on something that I haven't installed, that is just asking for trouble in the long run!
Sy

 

[AngelLaHash]

Good point SparkySy , i didnt think about "If they would of Routed the cables correctly" would be a hell of a lot of trust

doing a job for a Rubbish Manager (i want to use bad words for him but i must be Angelic) putting lights in a Unit and he wants the whole system wired on the ground and then Pushed in to the units Drivers/Connection box, so the Holes between joists are 52mm big .. To me we should be pointing in the middle of the Joist, as little hole as posible
This guy said he has passed his 17th and 18th Wiring Regs but i feel he HAS NEVER read them at all and doesnt use them, Pass the Exam and Burn the Book, Why i want out of the current place before i get my hands burnt with being linked to him.

My Ex Manager told me i have to stick it out till i find a new job to walk in to, pointed out id sooner stack shelfs at ASDA than this. He told me they dont like Breaks like that in the building trade

 

[SparkySy]

They must be some very thick joists to accept a 52mm hole, most I have come across you can if your lucky get a 32mm but most are nearly always 25mm due the the lack of meat in modern builds!
Sounds like you would be much better off out of there imho!

 

[Retroelectric]

As with our local BC they too will accept an EICR if the original installer has disappeared or not returned to finish the job! I have done this a couple of times now for customers who have been led down the garden path with all in builders that have had unregistered sparks on their books! But with lots of not verified's in boxes on the report as how do I know where the cables have been routed or what lurks beneath the surface, and I don't like doing it!

I honestly do not believe that an EICR report gets much reading from BC past page 1, after the address ant the word satisfactory has been seen.
In the extent and limitations you could probably put this certificate only covers the correct address and current date and nobody would think anything of it!
All they see is another satisfactory installation at 123 Limitation Lane!!!

 

[westward10]

Limitation Lane I like it must remember that.

 

[SparkySy]

Tbh judging by the caliber of most of the building inspectors on our BC I wonder if they would even know what one is (test report that is) apart from the fact it should be there!

 

[Julie.]

I never really understand the outraged and strenuous objections to third party testing, after all the EIC is designed for this very thing.

On large projects I would receive the EICs for me to complete as the designer, they would already be installed and signed by one "installer " - usually the supervisor of the team of electricians who completed the installation to my design, and signed by another as the "inspector" - usually the one individual who completed the testing.

Yes, sometimes the designer, "installer", and tester worked for the same company, but not always.

In many cases when the tester was third party the tester would highlight the extent of testing/inspection possible (not able to verify zones etc).

So it is not beyond the wit of man (woman) to do the same for smaller installations and the part P notification when applicable.

 

[DPG]

I never really understand the outraged and strenuous objections to third party testing, after all the EIC is designed for this very thing.

On large projects I would receive the EICs for me to complete as the designer, they would already be installed and signed by one "installer " - usually the supervisor of the team of electricians who completed the installation to my design, and signed by another as the "inspector" - usually the one individual who completed the testing.

Yes, sometimes the designer, "installer", and tester worked for the same company, but not always.

In many cases when the tester was third party the tester would highlight the extent of testing/inspection possible (not able to verify zones etc).

So it is not beyond the wit of man (woman) to do the same for smaller installations and the part P notification when applicable.

Yes, but it's not really in the spirit of the regulations for some random non registered spark to fit some new sockets then try and find a registered spark who is willing to give him a ticket for it, despite him never even having seen the job before.

 

[Julie.]

Yes, but it's not really in the spirit of the regulations for some random non registered spark to fit some new sockets then try and find a registered spark who is willing to give him a ticket for it, despite him never even having seen the job before.

That example isn't, but just because there can be bad situations, doesn't mean that every other case is.

Hence I can't understand the outright objections.

Sure object in the right circumstances, but also accept it's a valid arrangement when it is.

 

[DPG]

That example isn't, but just because there can be bad situations, doesn't mean that every other case is.

Hence I can't understand the outright objections.

Sure object in the right circumstances, but also accept it's a valid arrangement when it is.

I think the outright objections are generally aimed at the type of thing I mentioned though, rather than anybody objecting to legitimate jobs where there may be a different designer/installer/tester.

 

[plugsandsparks]

I have 3rd part signed off, i think, twice. Once for an apprentice who was doing his own place, i followed NAPITs rules to the letter, checking cable runs before plastering etc and asked him not to terminate at the board end and leave all accessories unscrewed. It worked out quite well, but it was never energised before i had completed the tests and signed off. I think this is where it goes wrong. I know a firm that had energised a cct (to keep the lights on) in a commercial setting prior to testing and signing off and the next electrician (doing another job) got a belt and it all got messy. I was asked to help be the "impartial" opinion.

The second job was when i was working with the local electricians in an industrial setting, i was the designer and tester and they were the installer. As Julie says , this can work very well.

However, rocking up to an installation that has been designed , installed and probably energised and then asking me to test it is simply a *iss take. As mentioned there is no upside.