A Calibrated Question (Multi Meters)

[OnlQQker]

I have a Kewtech KT63 which I picked up a couple of years ago for testing stuff in the shed.
It has just run out of calibration and I'm not sure whether to contact Kewtech and ask them who to calibrate it or what?

I know on Ebay people are calibrating but you have to package it up and send it away, but my mate who works in Edmunson's, Leighton Buzzard (who I popped in and saw earlier) has just given me this flyer, he also mentioned that if it wasn't ready the same day and I needed to pick it up Friday, then they have a free burger van and drinks.

What he doesn't know is I can eat at least 25 quid's worth of bacon rolls, let alone free coffee!

 

[LukeD]

Why does it need calibrating ? £60 I think is still expensive when these guys do a Daily special offer . If its not been used for site testing etc then why a 63?

 

[UNG]

I'm not a fan of while you wait / on the day calibration events as the meter isn't calibrated under the same verifiable environmental conditions as it would if you took it to a calibration company who usually leave it to aclimatise in their calibration lab for 24 hours before calibration

 

[LukeD]

I'm not a fan of while you wait / on the day calibration events as the meter isn't calibrated under the same verifiable environmental conditions as it would if you took it to a calibration company who usually leave it to aclimatise in their calibration lab for 24 hours before calibration

THis.....Its like a "drive by EICR" .Its another business that is not really regulated well

 

[LukeD]

What qualifications are required to "calibrate " and what would the start up cost be to buy the right gear etc ?

 

[pc1966]

What qualifications are required to "calibrate " and what would the start up cost be to buy the right gear etc ?

Not sure about qualifications, but Time Electronics make all sorts of precision standards and cal kits. This one is about £5k and does MFT:

5030 Electrical Tester Calibrator

Clearly displays measurements and settings via Large LCD. For calibration of RCD, loop, insulation, earth testers and multifunction installation testers.

www.timeelectronics.com

Of course you need to have the cal kit calibrated by someone with even better equipment...all the way to the NPL or similar!

I have a couple of Time products, including their 1068 resistor standard (0.01% to 0.1% depending on value) and 1044 DC voltage/current calibrator (0.05%) but after work changes they have not been back for factory/standards lab cal.

 

[Lister1987]

I've had positive experiences with Paul Hanlon and thr team at Calibration Centre

 

[pc1966]

Anyone know if such "calibrate in on the day" cal services run in Scotland?

 

[UNG]

If you look at some of the big wholesalers sites they have quite often have a branch events section, there might be one near you running one
The only other option may be to ask at local wholesaler branches if enough people ask they may run one

 

[pc1966]

If you look at some of the big wholesalers sites they have quite often have a branch events section, there might be one near you running one

That seems to get nowhere, for example, I can't find the OP's event mentioned on the Edmundson site!

The only other option may be to ask at local wholesaler branches if enough people ask they may run one

That might be worth a try. I know there are some cal places around Glasgow but usually you have to send them and with for return. That I can live with, just don't have original boxes to post safely any more!

 

[ferg]

CEF and others have a calibration day every now and then.
Due to my location they usually pick it up on one delivery day and return it the next.
I'm about 120 miles from my nearest wholesaler so popping in isn't really an option.

Probably better just to phone the usual suspects where you are and find out when their calibration days are.

 

[pc1966]

CEF and others have a calibration day every now and then.
Due to my location they usually pick it up on one delivery day and return it the next.
I'm about 120 miles from my nearest wholesaler so popping in isn't really an option.

Probably better just to phone the usual suspects where you are and find out when their calibration days are.

I checked with the Dundee branch of CEF and they are doing a day on the 10th May so will take my MFT along, maybe my Megger IR tester and I think somewhere we have a PAT tester that ought to be checked as well.

 

[Lister1987]

If you look at some of the big wholesalers sites they have quite often have a branch events section, there might be one near you running one
The only other option may be to ask at local wholesaler branches if enough people ask they may run one

Hit up yellow pages; you may find some that will come to you.

 

[OnlQQker]

That seems to get nowhere, for example, I can't find the OP's event mentioned on the Edmundson site!

I think it's to do with management. The management in a lot of these kind of places (Builders merchants/plumbing/electrical/tiling/decorating chains etc, etc) don't have that critical edge thinking.
They couldn't care less if you brought something or not. They're on fixed wage with bonuses attached but they have to work there butt off to reach that level.

Yet, the whole game isn't just about money.

I've only met one manager in my life that has shown a way of thinking which makes you feel part of the bigger picture, and he's running the branch I posted about!

Let's face it, you're better off having friendly customers than ----ed off ones, unless you couldn't care 2 hoots about the company you're working for, then I guess you go for the latter approach.

 

[WallaceP]

Anyone know if such "calibrate in on the day" cal services run in Scotland?

CEF usualy have a summer and winter day in branch drop off in the morning and have it back that night

 

[pc1966]

Dropped off our MFT & PAT testers at the Dundee CEF on Monday, collected after calibration yesterday afternoon. Quite convenient and good value at £25+VAT each.

 

[LukeD]

Dropped off our MFT & PAT testers at the Dundee CEF on Monday, collected after calibration yesterday afternoon. Quite convenient and good value at £25+VAT each.

Thats super cheap

 

[pc1966]

Thats super cheap

I was surprised, maybe CEF subsidize it? Maybe they just get enough in one go to make the day pay well enough?

 

[LukeD]

I was surprised, maybe CEF subsidize it? Maybe they just get enough in one go to make the day pay well enough?

for those costs , to collect . test then return .something is wrong ......

 

[pc1966]

for those costs , to collect . test then return .something is wrong ......

I think they come to the CEF branch and sit down to process all that have been handed in. So one trip for the tester(s) and probably 20 odd items to do.

 

[LukeD]

I think they come to the CEF branch and sit down to process all that have been handed in. So one trip for the tester(s) and probably 20 odd items to do.

Not a Huge amount ...Especially if CEF want a fee etc

 

[DPG]

Not a Huge amount ...Especially if CEF want a fee etc

I reckon CEF probably waive any fee because they will probably sell more stuff when all the people come in for cheap calibration.

 

[pc1966]

I reckon CEF probably waive any fee because they will probably sell more stuff when all the people come in for cheap calibration.

LOL - you are assuming they have it in stock!

 

[mattg4321]

I think they come to the CEF branch and sit down to process all that have been handed in. So one trip for the tester(s) and probably 20 odd items to do.

They do more like 80-100 in my local branch on the CEF day. All at £30 a pop. Work it out…

 

[westward10]

Never trust these calibration days. I have said before we sent some in and mixed in by accident was an analogue insulation continuity tester which just read open continuity all the time. Came back with a calibration certificate so i tried it, still open continuity even with various leads.

 

[LukeD]

Never trust these calibration days. I have said before we sent some in and mixed in by accident was an analogue insulation continuity tester which just read open continuity all the time. Came back with a calibration certificate so i tried it, still open continuity even with various leads.

Exactly .... its a "Drive by calibration" service .

 

[LukeD]

They do more like 80-100 in my local branch on the CEF day. All at £30 a pop. Work it out…

How many guys carrying out the tests?

 

[mattg4321]

Two I think. It’s a good earner for them

 

[Mike Johnson]

I use a CalCard, keeping a record of last and current readings gives me what I need to know.

 

[DPG]

I use a CalCard, keeping a record of last and current readings gives me what I need to know.

I use a check box in a similar way. Good to use inbetween 'proper' calibrations. Covers resistance and IR, but obviously not RCD trip times and levels.

 

[pc1966]

Covers resistance and IR, but obviously not RCD trip times and levels.

That is the aspect of my MFT I can't check myself. The closest I can do is test one of my home sockets to see it has not changed much which, while better than nothing, is not quite enough to be sure.

I have a CalCard and really would recommend it as a handy way to check the low/high R ranges. I also have other meters that can be used to verify AC volts but the Zs & RCD stuff then I only have the one MFT.

 

[DPG]

That is the aspect of my MFT I can't check myself. The closest I can do is test one of my home sockets to see it has not changed much which, while better than nothing, is not quite enough to be sure.

I have a CalCard and really would recommend it as a handy way to check the low/high R ranges. I also have other meters that can be used to verify AC volts but the Zs & RCD stuff then I only have the one MFT.

The Metrel Eurocheck checkbox is very good as it does RCD and Zs tests as well as the IR/resistance checks. But I've just checked the current price is nearly £350.

 

[pc1966]

The Metrel Eurocheck checkbox is very good as it does RCD and Zs tests as well as the IR/resistance checks. But I've just checked the current price is nearly £350.

Interesting to see, a lot cheaper than the usual cal systems (they are £5k-15k I believe) but not quite enough for a single MFT, given the cal box needs cal'd as well!

If you were in a small company though it would make financial sense so 5 or so MFT could be regularly checked against it, and once a year the cal box sent out for a full check.

 

[DPG]

Interesting to see, a lot cheaper than the usual cal systems (they are £5k-15k I believe) but not quite enough for a single MFT, given the cal box needs cal'd as well!

If you were in a small company though it would make financial sense so 5 or so MFT could be regularly checked against it, and once a year the cal box sent out for a full check.

Exactly my thoughts. If it was under £200 I'd say everybody should have one.

 

[pc1966]

For general info, it is Automated Calibration Services who do the CEF cal day work:

ACS

The certificates I received says they use this bit of test kit (at least for MFT/PAT use I think):

Electrical Test Equipment Calibrator | Transmille

www.transmille.com

I don't see a UK price but a USA site is saying "Starting at $13,800.00" so around £11.3k
Others I see mentioned are more affordable (for a given definition of "affordable") such as this one:

5030 Electrical Tester Calibrator

Clearly displays measurements and settings via Large LCD. For calibration of RCD, loop, insulation, earth testers and multifunction installation testers.

www.timeelectronics.com

Is it currently on sale at £4,209+VAT from here:

Time Electronics 5030 Electrical Tester Calibrator

Calibrate RCD, loop, insulation, earth, and multifunction testers Large, clear LCD with intuitive menus Simulate RCD trip times, loop impedance, insulation resistance, and measure test voltage and currents

www.tester.co.uk

It looks less flash, so maybe less automation so not as good for quick turn-around use.

Another one I see mentioned around is this, though it is not claiming to be MFT style calibration:

Rent or Buy Fluke 5502A Multi-Product Calibrator

You can rent or buy a Fluke 5502A from Axiom Test Equipment. Contact us for additional details.

www.axiomtest.com

Again, only a USA site coming up with a price on a quick search and they are saying it is usually sold at $22,822 so around £18.6k

 

[Mike Johnson]

I use a CalCard, keeping a record of last and current readings gives me what I need to know.

Didn't mention that I test RCD/RCBO's in my own home on the same socket each time, and take a note of times etc and check against last readings, but then I am retried, and only do very small works for family and friends, in fact none this year yet.

 

[LukeD]

What is the expected time for a MFT calibration ? is it 10 mins? 20 mins etc ????

 

[LukeD]

For general info, it is Automated Calibration Services who do the CEF cal day work:

ACS

The certificates I received says they use this bit of test kit (at least for MFT/PAT use I think):

Electrical Test Equipment Calibrator | Transmille

www.transmille.com

I don't see a UK price but a USA site is saying "Starting at $13,800.00" so around £11.3k
Others I see mentioned are more affordable (for a given definition of "affordable") such as this one:

5030 Electrical Tester Calibrator

Clearly displays measurements and settings via Large LCD. For calibration of RCD, loop, insulation, earth testers and multifunction installation testers.

www.timeelectronics.com

Is it currently on sale at £4,209+VAT from here:

Time Electronics 5030 Electrical Tester Calibrator

Calibrate RCD, loop, insulation, earth, and multifunction testers Large, clear LCD with intuitive menus Simulate RCD trip times, loop impedance, insulation resistance, and measure test voltage and currents

www.tester.co.uk

It looks less flash, so maybe less automation so not as good for quick turn-around use.

Another one I see mentioned around is this, though it is not claiming to be MFT style calibration:

Rent or Buy Fluke 5502A Multi-Product Calibrator

You can rent or buy a Fluke 5502A from Axiom Test Equipment. Contact us for additional details.

www.axiomtest.com

Again, only a USA site coming up with a price on a quick search and they are saying it is usually sold at $22,822 so around £18.6k

Someone mentioned "Time" offer ex demo /used once/ maybe the packaging is bashed offers to boost sales ....

 

[pc1966]

What is the expected time for a MFT calibration ? is it 10 mins? 20 mins etc ????

I have no idea.

Based on my new certificate, it has 24 measurements so at 30s per test that is 12 minutes. Which is realistic but assumes the operator is familiar with that type of MFT, etc.

But I don't know if MFT have a secret test connector that would allow an automated stepping throgugh the tests and recording of results. That might take it below 5 min per instrument.

 

[westward10]

These calibration days I would guess as long as it takes to print off the Certificate and put some tamper stickers on it.

 

[LukeD]

These calibration days I would guess as long as it takes to print off the Certificate and put some tamper stickers on it.

I think you might be right in a lot of cases .....

 

[DPG]

Automated testing can speed cal processes up no end. Calibration has moved on significantly over the years

 

[Mike Johnson]

I would have thought that operating temperatures within the MFT would have to be stabilised before any meaningful tests can be carried out against the manufacturers specification, this can't be accomplished by a walk in test?

 

[LukeD]

I would have thought that operating temperatures within the MFT would have to be stabilised before any meaningful tests can be carried out against the manufacturers specification, this can't be accomplished by a walk in test?

I would guess many dont really care.They want their MFT back and as cheap as possible .They just presume they work until something really goes wrong with it .

 

[sparksfly]

That is the aspect of my MFT I can't check myself. The closest I can do is test one of my home sockets to see it has not changed much which, while better than nothing, is not quite enough to be sure.

I have a CalCard and really would recommend it as a handy way to check the low/high R ranges. I also have other meters that can be used to verify AC volts but the Zs & RCD stuff then I only have the one MFT.

I have a non-rcd socket near my CSU for testing Zs and using an RCD plug only for testing MFT, I also use 50m reel cable for resistance. These are solid state devices, the connections,clips leads are more susceptible to variation...keep a history of tests. Any real variation after replacing leads etc ...get it calibrated....every year is OTT.

 

[OnlQQker]

Well I thought I would update the Leighton Buzzard Edmundson's info as free food and drinks and the fact it states 'Stratton Food Hall' I imagine it's top nosh. That's breakfast and dinner sorted, I'm banking on loads of other freebies

 

[nicebutdim]

Well I thought I would update the Leighton Buzzard Edmundson's info as free food and drinks and the fact it states 'Stratton Food Hall' I imagine it's top nosh. That's breakfast and dinner sorted, I'm banking on loads of other freebies

View attachment 98244

Dilog only - at least I shouldn't have too long a queue ahead of me

 

[mainline]

Not sure about qualifications, but Time Electronics make all sorts of precision standards and cal kits. This one is about £5k and does MFT:

5030 Electrical Tester Calibrator

Clearly displays measurements and settings via Large LCD. For calibration of RCD, loop, insulation, earth testers and multifunction installation testers.

www.timeelectronics.com

Of course you need to have the cal kit calibrated by someone with even better equipment...all the way to the NPL or similar!

I have a couple of Time products, including their 1068 resistor standard (0.01% to 0.1% depending on value) and 1044 DC voltage/current calibrator (0.05%) but after work changes they have not been back for factory/standards lab cal.

I don't think any qualifications needed, just an understanding of using the kit.

There is also of course the expense of the various programming leads and software.

£60 for pushing a few buttons most of the time.

 

[freddo]

All calibration services seem to be poor and appear to be nothing more than a calibration 'check' and a piece of paper to say how far out the calibration is. OK so a range is out by 0.3, but they don't adjust the internal settings to correct this, which seems pointless. I have an inaccurate Fluke clamp meter in one of my MFT kits, when you switch it on, no cable clamped, it reads 0.5Amps. That was passed as all OK!

I also sent in a KT63 to Kewtechs repair and calibration service as the IR function provided no voltage output. They said all it needed was new software and they loaded a crappy newer version onto the tester (the previous version worked better), 'calibrated' it and sent it back as passing all tests. The insulation test still had no output!!!!! I ended up repairing it myself by resoldering the joints on the high voltage transformer as all the joints were badly cracked.

 

[stevethesparks]

Never trust these calibration days. I have said before we sent some in and mixed in by accident was an analogue insulation continuity tester which just read open continuity all the time. Came back with a calibration certificate so i tried it, still open continuity even with various leads.

I hope you took it up with them?