Access 2 Tade Careers

[guitargraham]

Hi

Altough i just want to be a house basher i may at a later stage want to progress to other things, so signed up to the full course to get it out of the way.

just googled both of these exams and found the following

http://www.cityandguilds.com/documents/ind_construction_electrical/2330-FAQ.pdf

City and Guilds 2391 and 2392 Qualifications - Building Regulations Compliance - Specifiers and LandLords - NICEIC Group

Feel happy with what i am doing and the information Access have given me.

Hopefully at the end of next week i will have full filled step 1 and have 17th edtion and the C & G 2392-10 level 10 and can apply to join a governing body, ( which one still not sure?)

Thanks to all for imput and hope that between us we are helping other people.

Graham

 

[dimspark]

You've certainly helped me Graham, good luck with the rest of the course, i'll be in touch if I ending going with access 2 trade,

All the best

 

[Besim10]

Hi Graham, i'm not sure Basim is saying he has a problem with the course you are doing, he is simply saying that it won't legally allow you to work in a commercial premises.
The problem is Access are saying it will, someone has got it wrong I just haven't found any other info to justify either yet.
But what I don't understand is if you just want to be a house basher why do the 2391 qualification which allows you to test commercial premises? I will be rewiring office blocks (hopefully!), and I can't afford to invest £6k in something that offers a "professional electrician course" but won't allow me to operate as one.

Fingers crossed it will all become clear soon.......

Totally agree with your comment here dimspark

 

[Ossie]

Graham..... Your a legend - thanks!

Guitar Graham..... You're a legend - thanks!

Guitar Graham..... You're a legend - thanks!

 

[Rook45]

I am not long finished my first week. You get a first class set of tools check you have everything and do it quick as you dont get long. The first week is really busy you start in on a lighting system two way switch, single way switch and a down lighter There are also quite a lot of exams to do in the classroom but if I can do it anyone can the tutors are very good but I would say Wade is the main man if you have any problems.
Cheers Rook45

 

[DougGlen]

ok so what you guys are saying is to work in the industry as an "electrician" you need C&G 2330??

what do you need to do this ?

I'm currently on the access to trade careers "professional" electrician and now a bit annoyed to find out about this C&G 2330 not being on my course.

could I do the 2330 while still doing my access course? And if so when would be the best time to do this during the course, or after??

any help would be very much appreciated, im still kinda confused as to what i need to have in the industry; from what i understand the access course is kinda skipping a step by not having the 2330? confused :S lol

any help would be much appreciated

Also would like to know what exams etc are in the first week if any one can tell me

 

[guitargraham]

Hi all, has promised my week 3 update?

It was 1 hell of a week, totally fried my brains.But its only what i thought it would be.
Monday 17th edtion exam, all seem to go pair shape, but got through and got a pass.

Tuesday, dead and live testing, morning in the class room and afternoon in the testing bay, my head was totally gone, Jason the tutour was giving me and another lad a really hard time, but we where struggling? Wednesday back to the bay we had it sorted, Jason,s technique was spot on, just what we needed.
Thursday morning go threw the tests then in the afternoon in to the testing bay, 2 hours pratical exam doing dead and live testing, must of lost a stone? only 4 of us in the class and all passed.
Friday morning, 1 hour prep for the theory testing, 2 hours later all 4 passed. Mission complete, now quaified has a domestic electrician.

Big thanks to Jason the tutour, he really pushed me hard and got me through it.

to Doug, the 2330 is the apprentice route, check out the links in the thread for more info.

Thanks to all who PM,ed me, my next update will be in the New Year when i start on my own.

Graham

 

[Besim10]

Hi all, has promised my week 3 update?

It was 1 hell of a week, totally fried my brains.But its only what i thought it would be.
Monday 17th edtion exam, all seem to go pair shape, but got through and got a pass.

Tuesday, dead and live testing, morning in the class room and afternoon in the testing bay, my head was totally gone, Jason the tutour was giving me and another lad a really hard time, but we where struggling? Wednesday back to the bay we had it sorted, Jason,s technique was spot on, just what we needed.
Thursday morning go threw the tests then in the afternoon in to the testing bay, 2 hours pratical exam doing dead and live testing, must of lost a stone? only 4 of us in the class and all passed.
Friday morning, 1 hour prep for the theory testing, 2 hours later all 4 passed. Mission complete, now quaified has a domestic electrician.

Big thanks to Jason the tutour, he really pushed me hard and got me through it.

to Doug, the 2330 is the apprentice route, check out the links in the thread for more info.

Thanks to all who PM,ed me, my next update will be in the New Year when i start on my own.

Graham

The 2330 is not the apprentice route. It's the electrician Route. It can be done via college or through private companies. If you were a school leaver or adult apprentice and you approached your local college to become an electrician they would put you through the 2330 L2 (2 years for most colleges) and 2330 L3 (1 year). Doing this course distance learning (Theory from home) will take around 6 months each level (give or take).

The most important thing is the 2330 will train you and certify you to work in commercial, industrial and domestic rather than just domestic which is what you can work in with the course you are doing. Once the NVQ3 2356 is achieved, your are an approved electrician, add a part p and 17th edition, you can get a JIB S grade gold card (one of the most presteigous in the industry).

Please read my previous posts Doug but if you want to know more, let me know

This Link may help

Electrician Job Profile

 

[DougGlen]

Ok so would I be right in saying that as well as doing

EAL VRQ Level 2 Certificate for Domestic Electrical Installers
City & Guilds 2382-10 Level 3 Certificate in the Requirements for Electrical Installation (17th Edition)
City & Guilds 2392-10 Level 2 Certificate in the Fundamental Inspection, Testing and Initial Verification
City & Guilds 2391-10 Level 3 Certificate in Inspection, Testing and Certification of Electrical Installations
City & Guilds 2377-12 Level 3 Certificate for the Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment

I would also need to do the

2330 AND NVQ3 2356 or just one??

thanks Besim10 for your help

 

[Jurasic Spark]

EAWR 1989 Regulation 16

"No person shall engage in work that requires technical knowledge or experience to prevent danger or injury, unless he has that knowledge or experience, or is under appropriate supervision.
Standard of duty - absolute."

There is no mention of any C & G qualifications, but I guess they are 1 way of proving a level of competence.

 

[Besim10]

Ok so would I be right in saying that as well as doing

EAL VRQ Level 2 Certificate for Domestic Electrical Installers
City & Guilds 2382-10 Level 3 Certificate in the Requirements for Electrical Installation (17th Edition)
City & Guilds 2392-10 Level 2 Certificate in the Fundamental Inspection, Testing and Initial Verification
City & Guilds 2391-10 Level 3 Certificate in Inspection, Testing and Certification of Electrical Installations
City & Guilds 2377-12 Level 3 Certificate for the Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment

I would also need to do the

2330 AND NVQ3 2356 or just one??

thanks Besim10 for your help

To be a qualified electrician you will need both

 

[dimspark]

ok so what you guys are saying is to work in the industry as an "electrician" you need C&G 2330??

what do you need to do this ?

I'm currently on the access to trade careers "professional" electrician and now a bit annoyed to find out about this C&G 2330 not being on my course.

could I do the 2330 while still doing my access course? And if so when would be the best time to do this during the course, or after??

any help would be very much appreciated, im still kinda confused as to what i need to have in the industry; from what i understand the access course is kinda skipping a step by not having the 2330? confused :S lol

any help would be much appreciated

Also would like to know what exams etc are in the first week if any one can tell me

Doug, you don't "need" the 2330 to work in the industry as an electrician. I have spoken to NICEIC and they have said that I will be able to work legally under their scheme provided I have my 17th edition and have work that they can inspect. The most important thing seems to be experience and the 2330 does give a certain amount of that, but there are other ways! As far as I know you need your 2330 and 2356 to be on the JIB scheme but this isn't fundamental to you working as an electrician. Please somebody correct me if i'm wrong!?

 

[Jurasic Spark]

You are correct.
The 2356 is a Log book based on onsite assessments so if you are not already working in the areas needed to be assessed in order to achieve the NVQ then you are not going to get it.

 

[WayneL]

Hi,

No disrespect to anyone with my following comments - just want to get things into perspective.

You don't need anything to work legally as an electrician - the requirement is COMPETENCE.

What the 2330 gives you, that a three week 'wonder course' doesn't, is the fundemental basics and theory, along with practical work, to help you on the way to being COMPETENT.

You can take all the shortcuts that you like into this trade but, at the end of the day, it's you that has to be happy with your competence to do the work that you undertake and you that will be asked to prove that competence when the fire engines have been to a job that you did and you're up in court (god forbid!)

If you're happy calling yourself a domestic electrician after 3 weeks training, thats fine.

I've done the 2330 level2, 17th edition, I've took my 2391 and I'm half way through my 2330 level3 - I still wouldn't call myself an electrician (domestic or otherwise)

When I am completely happy with my competence I am going self employed - and not before. I still have a lot to learn.

The 'domestic electricians' reading this might be interested in a question we were given in college today - it might give a good idea of the difference in understanding dealt with in the two courses.

This is a 2330 level 3 question - it threw me for a while until I got my head around it

Mrs Jones wants a new cooker circuit installing for her 6 KW cooker.
The supply is 230v 50 hz. The ambient temperature is 35 degrees and protection is by a BS3036 fuse.
The cable is 70 degree thermoplastic pvc/pvc T&E, and is to be installed in earthed metalic conduit, buried in the wall, for mechanical protection.
The length of the run from CU to cooker is 30 meters and a socket outlet is to be incorporated in the cooker connection unit.
Volt drop must not exceed 6v.

Give:

Rating of the protective device

Conductor CSA of cable selected

Confirm volt drop is within limit

A nice little domestic scenario - might be your first job

Have fun,


Wayne

 

[Jurasic Spark]

Looks pretty basic stuff really which is covered on all the courses debated on this thread.
Do you need any help with this homework or are you ok?

 

[WayneL]

Hi,

Probably is basic to anyone used to cable calcs, but I'd say 90% of our level 3 class were struggling a bit with this, so I have my doubts as to whether anyone on a short course would grasp it that easily - I'd like to be proven wrong

I think I've got it now but, anyone wants to volunteer an answer, feel free.

I think the second part of the question asked what would happen to your answers if you swapped out the 3036 for mcb/rcbo instead.


Cheers,


Wayne

 

[Jurasic Spark]

The first thing you need to calc' is the design current (Ib) of your circuit. So what have you got for this and how did you come by that value?

Why have you been given 6v for vd?

 

[WayneL]

Why have you been given 6v for vd?

Hi,

I think it's just so that we get used to being able to check it - I know the regs would allow higher than that.

I doubt that the whole scenario makes sense - it's just to get us to practise the calcs, I think.

I remember touching on this when I did the 17th edition but it hasn't really been mentioned since - it's mostly come back to me now, but I wasn't joking about most of the lads at college struggling with it.

Wayne

 

[Jurasic Spark]

Hi,
but I wasn't joking about most of the lads at college struggling with it.
Wayne

Wayne,
I'm sure this is true but doesn't that kind of undermine the arguement about the 2330 college route being superior?

Anyway back to Mrs Jones' cooker, do you reckon it needs any additional protection?

 

[WayneL]

Hi,

I don't know - this is what I'm trying to suss out - the levels of teaching in the different courses and the level of understanding that you come away with - I'm just going about it badly.

I don't think it undermines the course - It could be that the course is too difficult to be taken if you're not actually working in the industry - most of the lads at college aren't!


Sorry, forgot to answer your question,

I got Ib at 19.8A (after diversity) or 26.09A if your applying full rating.

So then selected a 20A BS3036

And yes, it would require additional protection because of the socket outlet, regardless of the cables being mechanically protected.

Cheers,

Wayne

 

[Jurasic Spark]

Hi,

I got Ib at 19.8A (after diversity) CORRECT or 26.09A if your applying full rating.

So then selected a 20A BS3036

And yes, it would require additional protection because of the socket outlet, regardless of the cables being mechanically protected.

Cheers,

Wayne

Ok, so how does your college tutor wish you to provide the required additional protection with a rewireable fuse?

 

[WayneL]

Like I said, I think it's more to get us used to the calcs - or maybe thats why they threw in the second part of the question regarding the rcbo.

I did consider the rcd issue myself and thought probably an inline rcd next to the CU for additional protection and the 3036 for overcurrent, if this was an actual situation - failing that, splash out on a seperate rcbo in its own little enclosure - or lose the socket outlet ha ha

 

[Jurasic Spark]

Like I said, I think it's more to get us used to the calcs - or maybe thats why they threw in the second part of the question regarding the rcbo.

Or maybe a case of the 2330 lecturers not realising that they are giving a none valid problem.

Anyway regardless, what is the min amount of current your cable needs to be able to carry and what size cable have you selected?

 

[WayneL]

I got it to 29A for the cable and selected 6mm - and the volt drop worked out fine.I think the socket was mentioned purely so we had to remember to allow for it in the diversity - and the 3036 is thrown in so that you have to apply the correction factor - as I say, purely a calcs exersise.

When do you do your 2391 prac, by the way, or have you already done it - got mine in the third week in January

 

[bcwood16]

Hi to all,

Just wanted to say thanks to this community and this thread. I work as a computer technician, but last year I decided for a career change to an Electrician. Something I have always thought about.

As im in full time employment, I needed a course I work at on my own pace. I looked around and finally decided to go for Access2Carreers. It was a tough decision as there are plenty of different options, but this course seemed right. Also due to feed back here, that made my final decisional. I signed up min November. The people I have spoken to so far have been kind, positive and very supportive. I received books and study material really quickly and before I knew it, well into study

I have not done my first week practical yet, but will be calling up about available dates very shortly. Im hoping to get my first practical out the way by the end of Fed, preferably sooner.

So still pretty much a newbie to this course, but so far good feedback.

Hope that is to some help to people deciding. I realise it is not the cheapest course around, but at the end of the day I want what is best for me (learning is individual) and if that means a little bit more for a better experience, then that is not a problem for me.

If anybody has any questions im more then happy to respond and I shall keep my progress updated. However, im well behind other people already on this course.


(GOOD LUCK - WayneL for your next practical) !!!

Barry

 

[guitargraham]

Hi all

just received the following e-mail

"It is with the very greatest regret that I have to write to you to tell you that having tried our very best we have been unable to secure ongoing funding for the company and accordingly as matters currently stand we are unable to continue to provide your training.

Arrangements are being made for an insolvency practitioner to be appointed and I am sure you will be hearing from him. No doubt you will want to discuss the position with him or an adviser.

Yours sincerely

Access2 Trade Careers"

Hope this gives any body who has recently signed up yhe heads up.

Will update when info comes available

I paid with a credit card so going to see if i can claim any money back, ut done 3 of the 4 modules to wont hols my breath ?

Graham

 

[paulred75]

Yeah, just got the same email too.

How would this work with the finance?

 

[Dan]

You might want to checkout the threads on our plumbing forum too guys: Plumbing Forum | Plumbing Advice | Plumbers Forums | A forum for plumbers advice in the UK

Lots of unhappy trainee's will suffer from this.

 

[pete3]

Not very happy tonight having got the email from Access2Trades i was booked on the electrical week 3 practical next week with two c & g exams, the first one being on Monday.

Still, i have only paid about half so i am hoping they wont try and take any more payments on the credit card. I am going to try and stop any more by contacting the credit card company.

I was also going to try contacting C & G to see if i am booked to do the exam on Monday and if so explain the situation and see if i can go to another C & G training centre on Monday to take the exam.

I hope this may give a couple of ideas to to some other trainees in a similar position as it may help rescue the situation a bit for me.

I'll keep updating as i get more info.

 

[richj]

Hi All

Have just got home from hartlebury received a call at around 6pm telling us the site had closed down and not to turn up in the morning.....

Was on my 3rd week training session

 

[colinhills]

hi all very unhappy at moment to. just finished the 2391 mock exam and looking for my 4th week. now can not do it. and very unhappy at now have to try and get money back and then still find a place to do my course. i still have 2391 and 2377 to go and they are the money makes. this sucks buig time well i think they owe me about 975 pounds for the 2 outstanding courses

 

[bcwood16]

Hi,

Just received the same email, good job I checked here too as it went into my 'Junk' folder, so most likely would not have seen it.

This totally sucks! I was just about to start my 'first' week practical on Monday 8th Feb.

I payed the full amount on credit card, so I am hoping I have protection and get 'all' my money back because as far as im concerned I have not even started yet, all I have done is read a few books! Most expensive books I ever bought!

I researched around every were and thought this was the better company to use. I relaise their premisis and building is all new, but the company has been around for a while, thought they just expanded and 'upgraded' everything! - doing well for them selves!

I feel totally let down now and what a waste of a few months!

Barry

 

[colinhills]

if you have payed by credit card i think you can go to the credit card company and tell them to do a refund as you never receved the service and they chase the money back for you. talk to citizans advice.

 

[pete3]

If you are paying by installments on a credit card you cannot stop them from charging additional payments to it, so it was suggested to me that you cancel your credit card and get a new one sent to you. Then access2trades will not be able to get any more money without coming and asking for it.

Peter

I was due to take my 2382 exam on Monday and have asked city and guilds if there was any way i coul;d still take the exam but at a different centre.

Their response was that i need go onto their web site and find my local exam centres and contact them directly to see if they can enrol me and there would also be a fee to pay for enrlolment and exam.

I think other exams would need a full course if there are practical assessments to be done.

I hope this is of use.

Peter

 

[paulred75]

I paid for mine through Barclays Finance,
I spoke to them yesterday and they said that they would be in touch soon with the next steps. The T&C's talk about sueing them if a service/product is not received, I hope they come up with a suitable resolution to this without the hassle of courts etc...

 

[Spudnik]

This topic is already discussed here:

http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...2993-access-2-trade-careers-closing-down.html