Advice wanted - unhappy with rewire

[Astris]

the purpose of separating the cpc's into separate terminals is in case 1 becomes loose or snapped, you'll still have earthing (protective and functional) to equipment .

Yes, I understand what you are saying and don't dispute the point. If you think about it, one or two terminals can suffer the same fate.

I was trying to explain why problems can occur with RCD protection on modern equipment (e.g. computers with switched mode PSUs drawing several amps at 230V) - by design, current will flow through the cpc and unbalance the RCD. Not everybody understands that.

 

[telectrix]

agree with some leakage on IT eqwuipment, but each item should typically have a leakage current of 3 - 4 mA. this will only upset a RCD if too many items are on 1 RCD.

 

[AJshep]

Yes, I understand what you are saying and don't dispute the point. If you think about it, one or two terminals can suffer the same fate.

I was trying to explain why problems can occur with RCD protection on modern equipment (e.g. computers with switched mode PSUs drawing several amps at 230V) - by design, current will flow through the cpc and unbalance the RCD. Not everybody understands that.

I think this is maybe what Stuey was getting at when he stated 543.7.2 but this is a separate issue. We generally work through the regs book and earth leakage is mentioned previously in 531.3.2 , we should select the correct type of RCD for the installation as per 531.3.4

You are right in what you say, this is becoming more of an issue.
But on the other hand this is different issue to putting two CPC of a Domestic RFC in the same terminal, especially where most of the switching PSUs will most likely be small types like phone chargers which are mostly double insulated phone chargers.

 

[Pete999]

We are talking about high integrity earthing are we not? I'll wait for an answer before I carry on, if that's OK.

 

[Astris]

We are talking about high integrity earthing are we not? I'll wait for an answer before I carry on, if that's OK.

Probably should continue under a new thread?

 

[Astris]

But on the other hand this is different issue to putting two CPC of a Domestic RFC in the same terminal, especially where most of the switching PSUs will most likely be small types like phone chargers which are mostly double insulated phone chargers.

Yes, I agree.

Would you consider a domestic installation as unlikely to need consideration for high integrity earthing unless there is a specific reason (e.g. medical equipment)?

 

[Pete999]

Yes, I agree.

Would you consider a domestic installation as unlikely to need consideration for high integrity earthing unless there is a specific reason (e.g. medical equipment)?

No not unless the copulative earth leakage current exceeded 10mA Regulation 543.7.1

 

[DPG]

Copulative leakage. Brill

 

[Pete999]

Copulative leakage. Brill

For that read cumulative, predictive text, my foot sorry all for the gaff.

 

[ruston]

Copulative leakage. Brill

I have an answer for that but I have never had a warning so far.

 

[Pete999]

I have an answer for that but I have never had a warning so far.

Always a first time Mate

 

[AJshep]

Would you consider a domestic installation as unlikely to need consideration for high integrity earthing unless there is a specific reason (e.g. medical equipment)?

Yes, if a circuit was intended to supply alot of high earth leakage equipment or upon measurement leaked 10mA or more then I would protect that circuit/ split accordingly eg. with type A/B RCD. And high integrity earthing.
But like you mentioned this would most likley be Radials with a seperate earth run as a ring.

I dont think its really necessary to install high integrity earthing in most domestic cases, but it is important to protect with the right type RCD to avoid nuisance tripping, and make sure the RCD would not be effected by the leakage and operate correctly

 

[Toneyz]

For that read cumulative, predictive text, my foot sorry all for the gaff.

Where is that bad spelling button that you keep on using on my posts?

 

[Midwest]

Where is that bad spelling button that you keep on using on my posts?

Tempting isn't it.

 

[Pete999]

Where is that bad spelling button that you keep on using on my posts?

Ah well someone else got in first Ant, so damage control has been activated, better luck next time, I'll be waiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Pete999]

Tempting isn't it.

Yes very, as are the dislike and disagree but you get far to much flak when hitting those two.

 

[Pete999]

Tempting isn't it.

Yes very, as are the dislike and disagree but you get far to much flak when hitting those two.

 

[ipf]

Yes very, as are the dislike and disagree but you get far to much flak when hitting those two.

Nearly as much as repeating messages, Pedro

 

[Pete999]

Nearly as much as repeating messages, Pedro

I'm not the only one with this problem.

 

[Toneyz]

Ah well someone else got in first Ant, so damage control has been activated, better luck next time, I'll be waiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Probably not for long.And you have put one too many spaces between control and has.

 

[Pete999]

Probably not for long.And you have put one too many spaces between control and has.

No I haven't keep trying.

 

[ipf]

I'm not the only one with this problem.

Yep, I have the odd prob, too...…..
Just blame it on the specs.
Just delete one?

 

[electrix]

Hi Sarah, the chasing is certainly untidy and if the wall had crumbled away I would have plastered around the sockets myself before second fixing. The wire should not have come out of the socket even with it being moved around. The melted socket is more than likely down to what the builder plugged in(to much load). Certificate needs to be issued within 25 days (NICEIC) and should have been registered online.
On the upside they have used MK gear which is generally better quality.

 

[telectrix]

MK gear is crap.

 

[EalingBadger]

MK gear is crap.

An increasingly prevalent opinion.

Could you put some meat on those bones?

 

[Des 56]

An increasingly prevalent opinion.

Could you put some meat on those bones?

In times of old MK stood for quality with robust and long lasting equipment
Its domestic range these days (and for the last 20 years) has stood for Mediocre (crap) Kit

 

[Midwest]

IMO MK stuff is quite well put together; some of their terminal screws aren't so good and leaning mcb’s. But the rests ok, and they look good.

There's a lot else there thats much worse.

 

[123]

IMO MK stuff is quite well put together; some of their terminal screws aren't so good and leaning mcb’s. But the rests ok, and they look good.

There's a lot else there thats much worse.

There's also a lot else that's much better

 

[Midwest]

There's also a lot else that's much better

What, and how much better; name your enemy of choice, we are all friends here . Quite like the Click Scholmore range, but still think the MK stuff (talking basic white plastic) looks………………………………………………………...nice!

 

[ipf]

Been installing plenty MK Aspect top of the range, flat plate on one job. No problems....but still much prefer the Schneider 'Ultimate' (GET) range.....a bit cheaper, better to work with and better looking, for me. Class stuff.

 

[rapparee]

Been installing plenty MK Aspect top of the range, flat plate on one job. No problems....but still much prefer the Schneider 'Ultimate' (GET) range.....a bit cheaper, better to work with and better looking, for me. Class stuff.

Hate that stuff with a passion.

It looks cr@p too if the plasterer isn't perfect.

 

[TheReturnOfHightower]

I've measured circuits running computers loads of times, never gets close to the 3.5mA that is suggested per device. We've even got one room (not my work, soon to be moved) with 30 computers on the same rcbo, and I can't ever recall being asked to reset the device. (And yes, the rcbo is functional)

I tend to get MK sockets as a) they offer outboard rockers and b) they have two earth terminals. Only other brand I can remember offering two earth terminals (apart from LAP CRAP) is Crabtree. Used to install Schneider when in the housing game and sure they were only single earth terminals.

 

[ruston]

Hager and Click do too.
Hager is my first choice , but I like click too.

 

[TheReturnOfHightower]

Hager and Click do too.
Hager is my first choice , but I like click too.

Love Hager boards, never come across their accessories. Click feels a little flimsy for me to be honest.

 

[ipf]

Hate that stuff with a passion.

It looks cr@p too if the plasterer isn't perfect.

Maybe....but this ain't your 'run of your mill' rewire..
.. on some jobs the plastering HAS to be perfect......and what is specified is installed.

 

[ruston]

Love Hager boards, never come across their accessories. Click feels a little flimsy for me to be honest.

Yes , the boards are great . Their light switches have a neutral terminal which is handy if you like it neat.
Click sockets are good , so is the cooker switch /socket, but I tend to agree with on their light switches.
Their cooker duel outlets are superb.

 

[ipf]

I tend to get MK sockets as a) they offer outboard rockers and b) they have two earth terminals. Only other brand I can remember offering two earth terminals (apart from LAP CRAP) is Crabtree. Used to install Schneider when in the housing game and sure they were only single earth terminals.

Schneider/GET Ultimate...…

 

[123]

What, and how much better; name your enemy of choice, we are all friends here . Quite like the Click Scholmore range, but still think the MK stuff (talking basic white plastic) looks………………………………………………………...nice!

Appearance wise most look similar, even the no brands look near enough the same. Quality wise MK is lacking, it's well over priced pruck.

I use Click.

 

[Toneyz]

IMO MK stuff is quite well put together; some of their terminal screws aren't so good and leaning mcb’s. But the rests ok, and they look good.

There's a lot else there thats much worse.

If I was MK I would forget doing consumer units.

 

[Stuey]

There is no need to seperate earth terminals on a Domestic install. You are right Stuey in what you say but lets not take things to the extreme.
This sounds like regurgitated carp from some college lecturer.
Switching PSUs are a slight problem we are all aware DC equipment has a higher earth leakage but how many does the average house have ?
Do you know how this installation is used by looking at a picture ? This install could be a elderly couple house, not a hackers house with multiple USB sockets and PSUs plugged in.
Led lighting is not usually applicable to either as this on the lighting circuit.

Lets not jump in and insult someones work, leave all this rubbish to the Facebook groups

I Did neither. Don't Jump to conclusions,
It appears that most domestic Electricians don't or won't take this into account .
As I stated in my first ( Other post ) .I have recently returned from Australia after working in Industrial , Commercial and marine. Ring circuits are not even allowed in Australia ( NOT final circuits anyway ) .After reading and catching up with the regs ( 18th) , I came across this regulation and others that state shall and recommended .It appears that these regulations are Ignored. To be called dumb is a ridiculous statement as it's a very valid point . To take a back step the easy answer would have been we don't bother to look at that possibility.
Earth leakage is a growing problem as is the related nuisance tripping of RCDs.
I Did not rubbish anyone's work , I even stated sorry if you took it the wrong way .The trouble with the written word , people can and do misunderstand the point !