Board Change with Asbestos Flash Guards

[MBEINST]

I have been asked to quote for the above board change. Having read the COSHH guidance it doesn't appear to be anything that I can't handle. However, do I need to be licensed to undertake any work with asbestos and would I need to inform my 3rd party insurance providers.

I am aware that I need to factor the cost of disposal into my quote but any further advice prior to me quoting would be greatly appreciated.

Prior to reading the COSHH sheet I got very twitchy at the very word 'Asbestos' but I need the work and intend to use a full face respirator whilst removing the old board and sanitizing the area.

 

[markc123]

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/guidance/a33.pdf

 

[Marvo]

My advice would be to wear a mask, try and disturb them as little as possible, double bag the board once it's removed and dispose of properly. Clean up without using a vacuum cleaner.

*edit* the hse guide linked by mark doesn't entirely agree with my method

 

[MBEINST]

Cheers

That's the COSHH guidance that I read.

 

[R G]

Best you go about it properly , is the customer aware of the situation , if they are and you don't go about this the right way , they could put you right in the kart,,

 

[netblindpaul]

That's NOT COSHH guidance its CAWR guidance.
You MUST have training and be competent to do this work.
You MUST be insured, which you are going to arrange, thus you MUST comply with the requirements of your insurer, you need to find out what these are before you start.
You MUST follow the requirements of a33 and its associated documents fully.

IF you can do this crack on if not, get someone in who can/will.
Remember CAWR is statute law, break it & get done, and say bye bye to any chance of visiting the USA for example, amongst other things.

 

[MBEINST]

Paul,

Please accept my apologies for using the wrong terminology.

Since the tab at the top of the Pdf states 'COSHH MC3 - a33.pdf' I obviously but eroneously thought that COSHH was the overall policy and CAWR was one aspect of COSHH.

I fully intend to follow the guidance but would like to know if I need to be licenced. What training course MUST I attend and who determines my competence.

Is it another governing/notification body that I need to pay off to allow me to do my job?

 

[eddiecme]

Paul,

Please accept my apologies for using the wrong terminology.

Since the tab at the top of the Pdf states 'COSHH MC3 - a33.pdf' I obviously but eroneously thought that COSHH was the overall policy and CAWR was one aspect of COSHH.

I fully intend to follow the guidance but would like to know if I need to be licenced. What training course MUST I attend and who determines my competence.

Is it another governing/notification body that I need to pay off to allow me to do my job?

I can tell you first hand from someone that does a lot of this, that someone in your position should get a contractor in and adjust your price accordingly. It's never worth it for just one job. Thats a fairly quick and easy job for a licensed contractor.

 

[Knobhead]

There’s little raw asbestos in woven cloth. If you’re that bloody worried spray it with adhesive first. Sling it in a skip!

It’s wittering on about minuscule things that keeps the H&S industry feeding on it’s self. The parasites feed on induced fear.

 

[Engineer54]

Here we go again, ....what a load of old crap!!

 

[markc123]

Here we go again, ....what a load of old crap!!

Haha, so true - i kept my post to a bare minimum, showing the relevant HSE document, because i know how strict some people are on the subject...

I once went on an asbestos course, when i was employed - got the documentation still cobweb ridden somewhere, but if i remember rightly theres white, blue and brown ? ...i also remember that, especially for fuse-carriers, the amount of asbestos is at a bare minimum and the best thing is to use it as backfill somewhere lol.

Ill put my tin-hat on, and be ready, sword in hand for any abuse heading my way :86:

 

[GLENNSPARK]

There’s little raw asbestos in woven cloth. If you’re that bloody worried spray it with adhesive first. Sling it in a skip!

It’s wittering on about minuscule things that keeps the H&S industry feeding on it’s self. The parasites feed on induced fear.

i was gonna say..

the way folk were bleatin on about it...like it was a mini crisis or something...

just due care taken will be enough.....

 

[Knobhead]

ready, sword in hand for any abuse heading my way

Not from me.

I’ve demolished three kilns that were insulated with blue asbestos plaster. Total cocoon with airlocks. Now that was a problem.

 

[Marvo]

There's common sense and there's legal requirements, I guess it's up to the OP which way he wants to go as long as he's aware of the legal side of things and the consequences for ignoring them if he so chooses.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

There's common sense and there's legal requirements, I guess it's up to the OP which way he wants to go as long as he's aware of the legal side of things and the consequences for ignoring them if he so chooses.

oh not you as well Marvo..

look, all it is is some crappy asbestos cloth (with very little asbestos in it)...i`v changed loads of these BS3036s...just due care & attention...

dispose of carefully (i like the idea of Tony`s with a spray of contact adhesive)..sling in a skip..

job done...

 

[GLENNSPARK]

legal this, legal that, legal`t other...

its all a con...

 

[Knobhead]

According to the HSE I should be dead. Sorry to disappoint you all.

Rewireable fuses have been with us for yonks.

The only time I’ve ever been bothered was testing a 1600A 3.3KV ACB. Damp had got in and the arc chutes were breaking up. Read up on cementitious asbestos.

 

[Engineer54]

Haha, so true - i kept my post to a bare minimum, showing the relevant HSE document, because i know how strict some people are on the subject...

I once went on an asbestos course, when i was employed - got the documentation still cobweb ridden somewhere, but if i remember rightly theres white, blue and brown ? ...i also remember that, especially for fuse-carriers, the amount of asbestos is at a bare minimum and the best thing is to use it as backfill somewhere lol.

Ill put my tin-hat on, and be ready, sword in hand for any abuse heading my way :86:

I've been on a few of those awareness courses over the years, and at every one of them, i've brought up 3036 fuse flash guards, and every time the guy taking the course has had to admit the extremely low level of risk.

Next time any of you that take this course, ask why all such fuse boards haven't been condemned, and haven't been ordered to be replaced across the board (excuse the pun) by law, if they have been deemed so dangerous for an electrician to replace a fuse element. You'll see them start wriggling and then waffling and moving away on to the real dangerous stuff!!

 

[Knobhead]

I'd got a better way Glenn, sling it in the furnace, lock, stock and barrel.

PS we were the disposal site for three police forces fire arms.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I'd got a better way Glenn, sling it in the furnace, lock, stock and barrel.

PS we were the disposal site for three police forces fire arms.

either way...some of the waffle that goes on in here

really...:nonod:

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Asbestos ...asbestos

there is a lot of scaremongering done simply to generate income.

I have mentioned before that the councils have an asbestos skip that you can take your asbestos to, just book a slot (its all free!).

this was for a lean to made from asbestos sheets. None was broken, we wore masks, it was bagged to kingdom come. Besides, it had been outside for 40 years why it suddenly became like fukashima all of a sudden I'll never know.

as it was the builder thought we were mad. He would have just buried it at the bottom of garden and saved the 4 quid in fuel and cost of bags......

Tonys idea is a good one. (With the spray glue).

 

[ian.settle1]

My advice would be to wear a mask, try and disturb them as little as possible, double bag the board once it's removed and dispose of properly. Clean up without using a vacuum cleaner.

*edit* the hse guide linked by mark doesn't entirely agree with my method

Not allowed in this country has to be specialist contractor

 

[Deleted member 72666]

C'mon guys! You don't really need to disturb the asbestos flash guards anyway, just chop the cables before they enter the fuses, simples!

 

[Knobhead]

Asbestos banded from all existing electrical equipment.

Stop press! British industry sunk without trace.

 

[Dan]

I'm led to believe there are three grades of asbestos, some more serious than others. They're named by colour. Not sure which colour is most serious.

I'd seriously consider getting it professional cleared out.

I have a friend who's father recently died of asbestosis. The particles in asbestos are like Xmas tree shapes and stick in your lung sacks and only go in, don't come out. As a result of that he ended up with cancer of the lungs (I'm led to believe) over a period of time.

Horrible way to go.

For the sake of a job that is a customers, either let them clear it out, or get it cleared out yourself. You're not paid enough to die earlier.

There is scare mongering, but sod that, 1 job in what? 100 - 1000? - Get it cleared out by somebody who's willing to.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I'm led to believe there are three grades of asbestos, some more serious than others. They're named by colour. Not sure which colour is most serious.

I'd seriously consider getting it professional cleared out.

I have a friend who's father recently died of asbestosis. The particles in asbestos are like Xmas tree shapes and stick in your lung sacks and only go in, don't come out. As a result of that he ended up with cancer of the lungs (I'm led to believe) over a period of time.

Horrible way to go.

For the sake of a job that is a customers, either let them clear it out, or get it cleared out yourself. You're not paid enough to die earlier.

There is scare mongering, but sod that, 1 job in what? 100 - 1000? - Get it cleared out by somebody who's willing to.

come on Dan...read post #23

 

[Dan]

come on Dan...read post #23

Good advice.
Let's go with that one.

 

[Geordie Spark]

I'm led to believe there are three grades of asbestos, some more serious than others. They're named by colour. Not sure which colour is most serious.

I'd seriously consider getting it professional cleared out.

I have a friend who's father recently died of asbestosis. The particles in asbestos are like Xmas tree shapes and stick in your lung sacks and only go in, don't come out. As a result of that he ended up with cancer of the lungs (I'm led to believe) over a period of time.

Horrible way to go.

For the sake of a job that is a customers, either let them clear it out, or get it cleared out yourself. You're not paid enough to die earlier.

There is scare mongering, but sod that, 1 job in what? 100 - 1000? - Get it cleared out by somebody who's willing to.

Haven't you got some software glitches to sort out??

My F5 key is almost worn out.

 

[BES]

My brother-in-law is a survey engineer who looks for asbestos day in day out when I asked about this he told me there was very little danger from these flash gaurds and as long as you don't mess about and remove them from the board and as said before double bag before disposing of offer no real risk.

 

[Andrewr3]

I find this HSE page useful Notifiable non-licensed work

Extracts of interest being:-

"It is the responsibility of the person in charge of the job to assess the ACM to be worked on and decide if the work is Notifiable Non-Licensed Work or non-licensed work."

"Notifiable Non Licensed Work will not normally include the following, which will continue to be categorised as non-licensed work (which is not notifiable), (assuming in all cases exposure is sporadic and of low intensity and will not exceed the control limit):
.........

..... removal, for example, of gaskets or asbestos rope cords from heating appliances, which can be left in situ for disposal or can be lifted out virtually intact, without substantial breakage;

and

....work to enclose or seal asbestos materials that are in good condition (and that do not require a licence);


I would ensure I was fully aware of the consequences of handling different types of asbestos containing materials and decide the level of disturbance to the asbestos you are going to cause in this particular job. My gut feeling would be the removal of a single DB would be Non notifiable and could be undertaken by non licensed contractors. But it would still need to be someone who fully understands the implications and of course would reference recommended HSE working practices to complete the work.

The resulting waste flashguard components will be classed as Hazardous waste which in itself has complications with transportation and disposal.The person taking them out will be classed as the waste producer. Using the Environment Agency document WM2 as reference you will see it is the waste producers responsibility to decide if a waste is Hazardous waste. Basically it is Hazardous Waste if it (any part of the waste) has something in it that looks (using naked eye) like it is asbestos or is understood to contain more than 0.1% asbestos. Small amounts of Asbestos Hazardous Waste is relatively expensive to get taken away properly. One flash guard might cost the same as a cubic metre of roofing material to get rid of.


In summary you need inform yourself adequately to be able to make the necessary judgments and decisions with asbestos, otherwise get someone else to deal with it.

 

[ipf]

Asbestosis is a terrible way to go. I've worked in asbestos production (not as much as the old fella) and there's no doubt that a great deal of suffering has been caused by the ignorance and greed of past factory and business owners. There were cases of children playing in streets outside certain premeses breathing in vast amounts of 'dust' resulting from production. Not, I would like to say, in the areas that I worked ...at least it was treated with care, not disdain.

However, when it comes to flashguards, we really are talking in the sphere of crossing the road, at a crossing, during the rush hour. Take reasonable care.............and bin it.

 

[Dan]

Haven't you got some software glitches to sort out??

My F5 key is almost worn out.

What's going on? You lagging?

 

[Geordie Spark]

Lagging?? You mean wrapping Asbestos around pipes, boilers and roof spaces??

Certainly not!!

That stuff is too dangerous for me to be messing about with!

 

[MBEINST]

Thanks for all the feedback gents.

I must say that I am more confused than ever now.

It appears that some wouldn't touch this job with a barge pole and some would do the job with a devil may care attitude. There are all points in between.

If I do end up doing the job I will close off the area whilst working and I will wear a full face respirator. The area will then be cleaned with damp cloths. Waste will be double bagged and then thrown into the canal.

Hope that adheres to the varying opinions on this.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Thanks for all the feedback gents.

I must say that I am more confused than ever now.

It appears that some wouldn't touch this job with a barge pole and some would do the job with a devil may care attitude. There are all points in between.

If I do end up doing the job I will close off the area whilst working and I will wear a full face respirator. The area will then be cleaned with damp cloths. Waste will be double bagged and then thrown into the canal.

Hope that adheres to the varying opinions on this.

stop fussing....and apply common sense...take the advice from members here.

hope this adheres to the `just get on with it` attitude...

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Thanks for all the feedback gents.

I must say that I am more confused than ever now.

It appears that some wouldn't touch this job with a barge pole and some would do the job with a devil may care attitude. There are all points in between.

If I do end up doing the job I will close off the area whilst working and I will wear a full face respirator. The area will then be cleaned with damp cloths. Waste will be double bagged and then thrown into the canal.

Hope that adheres to the varying opinions on this.

OK but dont go out into the street to throw the old board away with this on.....or the local kids will throw stones at you....

 

[MBEINST]

I have been told that its difficult to distinguish if I'm wearing it or not.

It is a very handsome respirator.

- - - Updated - - -

I have been told that its difficult to distinguish if I'm wearing it or not.

It is a very handsome respirator.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I have been told that its difficult to distinguish if I'm wearing it or not.

It is a very handsome respirator.

- - - Updated - - -

I have been told that its difficult to distinguish if I'm wearing it or not.

It is a very handsome respirator.

are you sure your going into the right kind of niteclubs?

 

[MBEINST]

How good does that look!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

How good does that look!

abashed the devil stood....

 

[Stuuk1]

I've changed boards with asbestos before. I never touch the fuses themselves, I label the cables externally and then cut just above the fuses leaving the inserts undisturbed.

 

[Geordie Spark]

abashed the devil stood....

Tony has not been the same since he lost his beard and hair has he?

 

[Knobhead]

OK I’m old and grumpy, at least I’m not bald!

 

[Geordie Spark]

OK I’m old and grumpy, at least I’m not bald!

Tw @ t !!!

 

[Geordie Spark]

OK I’m old and grumpy, at least I’m not bald!

Tw @ t !!!

Actually, I'm not bald just now.

I was only bald when I was captured by one of Tidyboiler's dowters who persisted in attacking my heid with a pair of electric dog grooming shears.

I have managed to stay out of her clutches for a couple of months now so I have quite a healthy head of hair just now.

Mind you, the hair is probably the most healthy thing about me just now.

 

[tidyboiler]

Tw @ t !!!

Actually, I'm not bald just now.

I was only bald when I was captured by one of Tidyboiler's dowters who persisted in attacking my heid with a pair of electric dog grooming shears.

I have managed to stay out of her clutches for a couple of months now so I have quite a healthy head of hair just now.

Mind you, the hair is probably the most healthy thing about me just now.

Well now she needs models for the beauty course at college, I've lined you up for a wax, hair dye, transplant, spray tan, manicure, perm, eyelash extensions and colonic irrigation. Brace yerself pet!!!!.......................... :dita:

 

[Knobhead]

Well now she needs models for the beauty course at college, I've lined you up for a wax, hair dye, transplant, spray tan, manicure, perm, eyelash extensions and colonic irrigation. Brace yerself pet!!!!.......................... :dita:

I had a full body wax for charity. Never again, it bloody hurts!

Don’t need to now, since my thyroid decided it doesn’t like me any more all my body hair has fallen out. Much to Pink Minx’s annoyance!