Conservatory wiring

[akwoody2]

Hello,

so iv been asked to wire a conservatory that's been built, an electrician had stared it but didn't finish it due to health reasons. What I mean by started it he has chased in one twin back box and put one 2.5 t+e in. The other end of the cable is poking out the corner of the room through the mortar. My only guess is he was going to chase along the mortar to the next socket because it's built with exposed brick work, a very nice finish. The ring I will be tapping into is on a RCD, but i can't think of any other way to conceal the cable. I personally have never ran a cable under the mortar and never seen it done. Is it acceptable? If not how will I conceal the cable without damaging the brickwork?

I hope that made sense, if not then please ask me a question and I'll do my best to make it clearer.

thanks

 

[shanky887614]

Hello,

so iv been asked to wire a conservatory that's been built, an electrician had stared it but didn't finish it due to health reasons. What I mean by started it he has chased in one twin back box and put one 2.5 t+e in. The other end of the cable is poking out the corner of the room through the mortar. My only guess is he was going to chase along the mortar to the next socket because it's built with exposed brick work, a very nice finish. The ring I will be tapping into is on a RCD, but i can't think of any other way to conceal the cable. I personally have never ran a cable under the mortar and never seen it done. Is it acceptable? If not how will I conceal the cable without damaging the brickwork?

I hope that made sense, if not then please ask me a question and I'll do my best to make it clearer.

thanks

what is on the other side of the wall?

is back entry not possible or if its against a wall a bit of conduit hidden.

pictures would help.

 

[telectrix]

could you drill outside then black pvc tube then back in at the other socket location?

 

[akwoody2]

what is on the other side of the wall?

is back entry not possible or if its against a wall a bit of conduit hidden.

pictures would help.

i instantly regret not taking photos, sorry.

The cable is coming out the corner of the room through the mortar, the socket it needs to go to is a foot along the wall. I will then go through he back of that socket, into the house to pick up my supply. I want to avoid anything surface if possible because it will ruin the brick work look. I'm guessing he was going to chase the mortar out and run it down the channel and re mortar it.

 

[Engineer54]

Only ever wired up one conservatory for a friend, i used the cavity to run the socket cables, the exterior cavity brick walls are generally only 18'' or so high, the rest being glass panels and windows.

And no, i have no concerns at all with using the cavity space!!

 

[ipf]

Only ever wired up one conservatory for a friend, i used the cavity to run the socket cables, the exterior cavity brick walls are generally only 18'' or so high, the rest being glass panels and windows.

And no, i have no concerns at all with using the cavity space!!

Yes, wiring in the dwarf walls not the slightest concern. Not much load involved so two sfc's in the downstairs ring for sockets and lights in conservatory. MT2 generally not out of place for lighting, if required. I'm sure any problems can be assessed and sorted.

 

[Baker1988]

Only ever wired up one conservatory for a friend, i used the cavity to run the socket cables, the exterior cavity brick walls are generally only 18'' or so high, the rest being glass panels and windows.

And no, i have no concerns at all with using the cavity space!!

I agree with you about the cavity wall but i have been told a few times i should not put any cable into the cavity without any mechanical protection like conduit or something, so is it not against regs to put a cable in the cavity without mechanical protection? Sorry if its a daft question but this is how we learn.

 

[akwoody2]

I agree with you about the cavity wall but i have been told a few times i should not put any cable into the cavity without any mechanical protection like conduit or something, so is it not against regs to put a cable in the cavity without mechanical protection? Sorry if its a daft question but this is how we learn.

As as far as I know it doesn't need mechanical protection as long as it's on a RCD. Is that right?

So is it ok to carry on with the previous sparks idea about taking a little bit of mortar joint out inside the conservatory and placing the cable also the joint then re mortar over the cable?

 

[Engineer54]

It's not a method i would ever contemplate using, and i certainly wouldn't be burying a joint in the mortar!! That's just asking for trouble...

 

[Paul P]

It's not a method i would ever contemplate using, and i certainly wouldn't be burying a joint in the mortar!! That's just asking for trouble...

I think you may of miss read the joint thing. I think he means a mortar joint not a cable joint?

I can't see a problem with it as long as it is a designated cable run location.

 

[davesparks]

When I was an apprentice I was taught that it is unacceptable to take out mortar joints and bury cables in them. And so I would never do it, but I think it would be quite hard to find regulations that prevent it.

 

[shanky887614]

When I was an apprentice I was taught that it is unacceptable to take out mortar joints and bury cables in them. And so I would never do it, but I think it would be quite hard to find regulations that prevent it.

i think i understand how his conservatory is laid out with the old external wall unplastered.

i think its lazy and should be plastered as well.

personally i would have the socket on the feature wall spurred off the one behind then a supply cable gotten from elseware.

two adaptable boxes and some swa wouldn't look out of place outside but it depends on scenario

 

[Richard Burns]

I agree with you about the cavity wall but i have been told a few times i should not put any cable into the cavity without any mechanical protection like conduit or something, so is it not against regs to put a cable in the cavity without mechanical protection? Sorry if its a daft question but this is how we learn.

Just my opinion of how the advice stands is that:
If you install a cable unprotected in a cavity it may become damaged and you would be unaware of this.
If you install a cable hanging down the cavity it may be subjected to excessive strain (even though 5m is permitted if it is not over a sharp edge!)
If you install a cable across the cavity then you will bridge the cavity and possibly permit moisture to reach the internal wall (this is mentioned in Approved document C that the cavity should only be bridged by wall ties, cavity trays, fire stops and cavity closures) (drill at an angle to direct drips to the outside wall).
If there is a loose cable in the cavity then it could coil and twist so that it bridges the cavity.
However I am not sure that there are any regulations to stop you doing this, there are only building guidance recommendations.

 

[akwoody2]

Just my opinion of how the advice stands is that:
If you install a cable unprotected in a cavity it may become damaged and you would be unaware of this.
If you install a cable hanging down the cavity it may be subjected to excessive strain (even though 5m is permitted if it is not over a sharp edge!)
If you install a cable across the cavity then you will bridge the cavity and possibly permit moisture to reach the internal wall (this is mentioned in Approved document C that the cavity should only be bridged by wall ties, cavity trays, fire stops and cavity closures) (drill at an angle to direct drips to the outside wall).
If there is a loose cable in the cavity then it could coil and twist so that it bridges the cavity.
However I am not sure that there are any regulations to stop you doing this, there are only building guidance recommendations.

Iv attached a paint drawing, sorry I had 2mins to do it.

So the top right cable needs to go to the socket to the left. its a decorative brick wall so I can only assume the previous spark was going to remove the mortar to run the cable then re-mortar. If I can help it I don't want to run it surface.

Hope the poor drawing clears it up.

 

[shanky887614]

Iv attached a paint drawing, sorry I had 2mins to do it.

So the top right cable needs to go to the socket to the left. its a decorative brick wall so I can only assume the previous spark was going to remove the mortar to run the cable then re-mortar. If I can help it I don't want to run it surface.

Hope the poor drawing clears it up.

drill into the house in the corner( through plasterboard, then angle from socket inside to meet holes up then any patching up if you miss

 

[akwoody2]

drill into the house in the corner( through plasterboard, then angle from socket inside to meet holes up then any patching up if you miss

That wouldn't work, I need to get the cable coming out the corner of the wall (through the mortar) to the socket along the wall to the left. there's no plasterboard around. Looking at the regs there isn't anything stopping him going behind the mortar as its on an RCD. Shall I just go with what hes thinking?

 

[shanky887614]

That wouldn't work, I need to get the cable coming out the corner of the wall (through the mortar) to the socket along the wall to the left. there's no plasterboard around. Looking at the regs there isn't anything stopping him going behind the mortar as its on an RCD. Shall I just go with what hes thinking?

on the other side of the wall mate to existing, ignoring that socket for a moment

 

[akwoody2]

on the other side of the wall mate to existing, ignoring that socket for a moment

I see what you getting at now, could be an idea, some precise drilling but worth a go. I guess they are my only options

 

[telectrix]

think for a minute. the only reason you may not install cable in the brickwork joint is that the cement mortar will degrade T/E over time. so bung in some cable that will withstand the mortar.

 

[dingledong]

Yes I was told that, that the lime in the cement will damage the cable but talking to a helpline I was told that I was talking rubbish