Consumer unit

[peevee]

Following an EICR I was asked to have fitted a consumer unit in my rented property.

I subsequently received the bill for £672 and paid. For this sort of outlay and given that as a landlord it's my responsibility if anything goes wrong I asked for the guarantee for the unit installed. Neither the agent nor the contractor are able (or are unwilling) to provide this. I was simply sent a link to a website which didn't even specify the type of unit installed.

I've no proof of purchase, no proof of the type of unit installed and whether it's an approved model so if it's faulty I'm likely to have to cough up again.

Surely this isn't normal ? Who do I contact to get satisfaction ?

Thanks

 

[DPG]

The point I was trying to make is, the consumer unit as fitted is a construct of the electrician. Sure the consumer unit as bought will have a warranty but the 1st thing the sparky will do is knock holes in it, he will then fit other items such as mcbs, rcbos and maybe other things. It is a device made by him and he will guarantee it. If a device fails, the electrician will replace it under warranty.

I’d be interested to know if the OP demands the receipts for the various parts when he has work done on his car in case the mechanic goes out of business.

I will say however, I think for the electrician to say that the work is guaranteed for 1 year is a bit poor. Fine to say that the parts will be covered by the manufacturer's warranty, but the work itself should be covered for life. By this I mean if I’ve done something wrong and it comes to light, I will go and put it right whenever. If an electrician fits an mcb poorly, let's say he fit it to the busbar incorrectly and it starts to burn, he can’t really say ‘I fitted that 2 ½ years ago mate so it’s out of guarantee’.

The car repair scenario is a good analogy.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Are there any good allergies? ??

 

[Pretty Mouth]

I will say however, I think for the electrician to say that the work is guaranteed for 1 year is a bit poor. Fine to say that the parts will be covered by the manufacturer's warranty, but the work itself should be covered for life. By this I mean if I’ve done something wrong and it comes to light, I will go and put it right whenever. If an electrician fits an mcb poorly, let's say he fit it to the busbar incorrectly and it starts to burn, he can’t really say ‘I fitted that 2 ½ years ago mate so it’s out of guarantee’.

The problem I can see with this is that others will work on the CU during its working life. Besides additions and alterations, you've got fault finding and EICRs too, any of which can leave loose connections etc. You find yourself paying for someone else's cock-up a couple of years down the line. 1 year is reasonable IMO, there has to be a limit.

 

[Risteard]

I think for the electrician to say that the work is guaranteed for 1 year is a bit poor. Fine to say that the parts will be covered by the manufacturer's warranty, but the work itself should be covered for life.

1 year parts and labour is completely standard. I'm not sure what you expect. My garage only gives a year on works carried out on my van.

 

[Micktw68]

I'm not sure what guarantee / warranty you are expecting could it be 5 or 10 years would you pay for a yearly or 2 yearly check on your installation to maintain your warranty like you do on a new vehicle, I very much doubt you would as you appear to be complaining about the cost of the CU, was the this work organised by a letting agent and did they take their %age adding to the cost

I don't know why people keep on peddling this after seeing some of the posts on here the CPS is an embarrassment to this industry

And in terms of EICRs totally unnecessary. A way of CPS’ to winkle more money from members.

 

[Mike Johnson]

"winkle" I'm sure there's a joke there somewhere. ?

 

[DPG]

"winkle" I'm sure there's a joke there somewhere. ?

Juvenile. Keep it up ?

 

[andyb]

The problem I can see with this is that others will work on the CU during its working life. Besides additions and alterations, you've got fault finding and EICRs too, any of which can leave loose connections etc. You find yourself paying for someone else's cock-up a couple of years down the line. 1 year is reasonable IMO, there has to be a limit.

I don't know why any of that would be a problem PM. I'm not guaranteeing the installation for life, if time has passed and I'm called to a fault where others have been involved then all bets are off. I'm just talking about my workmanship. I should have thought that even the law would say you're responsible for your own mistakes and that you can not discharge your responsibility after 12 months.

If that was the case then PL insurance would be a lot cheaper.

 

[UNG]

And I don't know why people keep on pedaling using unregistered un vetted electricians UNG, some of the posts on here regarding work done by handymen and chancers are an embarrassment to this industry.

I live in the real world there are many chancers and handymen with the absolute bare minimum of qualifications registered with the CPS's what does that tell you

For what it's worth, I was not 'peddling' anything, you do what you like. I pay to have my business checked annually by NAPIT, they check I have all the necessary insurances, qualifications, up to date publications, test equipment, knowledge of the regs and they inspect my work. All being well I go onto the CPS list. Now, by no means perfect but it's better than what was there before. Sure there are rogues out there, but as a layman with no electrical experience and not knowing any electricians, what's the best way to source someone to change my CU?.

They actually check you have the minimum qualifications necessary and they inspect a very small %age of your work, with regard to test equipment we won't go there as it might incriminate some o the assessors

What’s your message to any youngsters just getting into the industry? ‘You don’t need to bother with all that registration and red tape rubbish, just wing it’

I don’t think you'd say that.

I would tell them not to bother getting into the electrical industry as the industry is totally screwed and has been on the slippery slope since the introduction of Part P and the proliferation of dodgy training organisations all supported by the CPS's

 

[Pretty Mouth]

I don't know why any of that would be a problem PM. I'm not guaranteeing the installation for life, if time has passed and I'm called to a fault where others have been involved then all bets are off. I'm just talking about my workmanship. I should have thought that even the law would say you're responsible for your own mistakes and that you can not discharge your responsibility after 12 months.

If that was the case then PL insurance would be a lot cheaper.

I will say however, I think for the electrician to say that the work is guaranteed for 1 year is a bit poor. Fine to say that the parts will be covered by the manufacturer's warranty, but the work itself should be covered for life.

How would you prove, for example, 8 years after fitting a consumer unit, that it wasn't your work that caused an MCB to burn out due to a loose connection? If your client claimed no other person had worked on that board/circuit, and there was no obvious new work there, it would be difficult. So you would honour your lifetime guarantee?

 

[andyb]

How would you prove, for example, 8 years after fitting a consumer unit, that it wasn't your work that caused an MCB to burn out due to a loose connection? If your client claimed no other person had worked on that board/circuit, and there was no obvious new work there, it would be difficult. So you would honour your lifetime guarantee?

Well, yeah, I would. If it was obvious to me that the board had not been touched since then why wouldn't I. But here's the thing, this has never happened to me and I suspect such a scenario has never happened to you either.

Let me turn the question around PM. You're a competent tradesman, confident in the quality of your work, you’ve just fitted a new consumer unit, you've fitted it with all due care and to manufacturers instructions. Why do you feel the need to underwrite your workmanship for just 12 months?

 

[telectrix]

easy to determine if someone has been in a CU after you. fit a non-restickable seal over the joint in the CU. like them what you get on MFT at calibration.

 

[James]

Terminals can become loose over time from vibration, material creep, temperature fluctuations etc.

I would not guarantee beyond 12months without a caveat of regular maintenance and inspection.

you can buy a car with 5 year warranty, however it is not worth the paper its written on if you don’t have it serviced to manufacturers specifications and schedules.

 

[i=p/u]

And if fittings and the like fail, we have to change free of charge within first year, can we chase supplier for the collection and cost of refitting, awnser is no.

 

[andyb]

you can buy a car with 5 year warranty, however it is not worth the paper its written on if you don’t have it serviced to manufacturers specifications and schedules.

Not quite true James.
If the manufacturers have fitted a faulty part, then as soon as they are aware they will recall the vehicle and sort it no matter how old the car or whether you have maintained it properly or not. There are often recalls when it becomes clear that a part is faulty or failing.

 

[andyb]

And if fittings and the like fail, we have to change free of charge within first year, can we chase supplier for the collection and cost of refitting, awnser is no.

This is why you need to put a mark up on materials, to cover this.

 

[i=p/u]

Andy b your still wrong in guaranteeing your work for 12 years, but your choice

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Well, yeah, I would. If it was obvious to me that the board had not been touched since then why wouldn't I. But here's the thing, this has never happened to me and I suspect such a scenario has never happened to you either.

Let me turn the question around PM. You're a competent tradesman, confident in the quality of your work, you’ve just fitted a new consumer unit, you've fitted it with all due care and to manufacturers instructions. Why do you feel the need to underwrite your workmanship for just 12 months?

The more time that passes after I have installed a CU, the more likely it is that someone else will have worked on the installation. Anyone working on any installation will most likely open up the CU, and probably disconnect conductors as part of that work. Someone replaces a shower, fits a new light in the loft, and so on. At that point in time, my guarantee theoretically ends for the parts worked on, but I won't know that.

Should a loose connection result from that other work, and the MCB burn out, an unscrupulous client could, being unable/unwilling to contact the responsible electrician (or perhaps they did it themselves), and faced with the cost of a consumer unit replacement, call me up, pretend no other work has taken place, and insist that I honour my guarantee.

Within 12 months of fitting a CU, I will probably know the installation fairly well, having tested and inspected as part of the CU change, so it is likely i will spot any changes. After several years, not a chance.

As @James says, terminals can work their way loose over time, again the longer it is since installation, the more likely this is to happen.

But really, there isn't much need for a guarantee of longer than 1 year. Any faults as a result of my work are likely to show themselves in a fairly short space of time.

You are right though, this has never happened to me. I very rarely get call backs, and it's always due to faulty equipment or user error.

 

[andyb]

The more time that passes after I have installed a CU, the more likely it is that someone else will have worked on the installation. Anyone working on any installation will most likely open up the CU, and probably disconnect conductors as part of that work. Someone replaces a shower, fits a new light in the loft, and so on. At that point in time, my guarantee theoretically ends for the parts worked on, but I won't know that.

You will know if it's a mistake that you made, think about it, if you're called to a fault years later then it's not going to be down to you. What on earth could that fault be all those years later.

As @James says, terminals can work their way loose over time, again the longer it is since installation, the more likely this is to happen.

If you installed correctly then terminals working their way loose will not be down to you, so chargeable.

But really, there isn't much need for a guarantee of longer than 1 year. Any faults as a result of my work are likely to show themselves in a fairly short space of time.

That's right.

You are right though, this has never happened to me. I very rarely get call backs, and it's always due to faulty equipment or user error.

So there you go, it hasn't happened to me either and probably no one else on this forum that does the work diligently.

So I ask the question, why would you try to discharge all responsibility for your workmanship a year and a day after installing it?

 

[i=p/u]

Call andy today no delay the diligent spark , 30 year guarantee, they defo wont believe you

 

[i=p/u]

Only joking, I hardly get called back either andy

 

[andyb]

Call andy today no delay the diligent spark , 30 year guarantee, they defo wont believe you

I don't give a 30 year guarantee, my quotes do not even mention a guarantee.
Just simply that I'm confident enough of my own standards to not have to worry about if failing after 12 months.
I'm sorry that you feel you can't say the same about your work.

 

[i=p/u]

Never thought about it much , and when I did I came to conclusion that electrical equipment normally lasts a long time, it's robust enough

 

[Pretty Mouth]

You will know if it's a mistake that you made, think about it, if you're called to a fault years later then it's not going to be down to you. What on earth could that fault be all those years later.

If you installed correctly then terminals working their way loose will not be down to you, so chargeable.

That's right.

So there you go, it hasn't happened to me either and probably no one else on this forum that does the work diligently.

So I ask the question, why would you try to discharge all responsibility for your workmanship a year and a day after installing it?

There's not much more that I can add to what I have already said Andy. Consumer units get mucked around with. As you say, after years pass any fault isn't going to be my fault, so a long guarantee is pointless, and probably misleading to many.

 

[Dustydazzler]

easy to determine if someone has been in a CU after you. fit a non-restickable seal over the joint in the CU. like them what you get on MFT at calibration.

Or glue the lid on ?

 

[UNG]

If you installed correctly then terminals working their way loose will not be down to you, so chargeable.

I can't agree with your comment and the "lifetime" workmanship guarantee you claim
From experience all terminals work loose over time no matter how diligently they are tightened during installation.
With copper creep you can torque a terminal and 10 minutes later you can re-torque it and it will tighten a little bit more
It is not unusual to find terminals that are not as tight as they should be on a 2 year PPM or a 5 year EICR so without a regular maintenance visit yes problems can and will occur

 

[Mike Johnson]

Especially if the terminals are subjected to any thermal stress the heating and cooling/expansion contraction will loosen them.

 

[i=p/u]

Yh andy is away attending a call out from 5 years ago, hel be back later to tell if connctions have came loose..

 

[Deleted account]

IMO workman ship has a lifetime guarantee as long as regular EICRS are done and the installation isn’t abused or miss used. Lifetime being 25years.

and any works done after your works becomes the responsibility of next installer.

any existing materials (including cables and conductors) re used are not part of that guarantee.

who ever supplies new materials holds the guarantee on them. I normally extend any guarantee I give on materials to 3 years. but mark up is essential to make this Viable.

That’s reasonable.

 

[i=p/u]

Only joking Andy, most work is good for years, and if it's bad it's bad from start