Do you really need insulated tools?

[TheConduitKing]

Are insulated tools necessary if you're not working live? Watching YouTube videos of sparks in America none of them use insulated tools and working on live circuits is apparently an OSHA offense. In the UK the EWR state that:

"
No person shall be engaged in any work activity on or so near any live conductor; unless:

(a)it is unreasonable in all the circumstances for it to be dead; and

(b)it is reasonable in all the circumstances for him to be at work on or near it while it is live; and

(c)suitable precautions (including where necessary the provision of suitable protective equipment) are taken to prevent injury. "

Considering that VDE tools are basically a form of PPE. shouldn't they be kept unused until you need to use them live? On site I see everyone using VDE Tools basically as normal tools with the insulation damaged meaning that they would be less effective. I know they are to be used for those rare times when you make a mistake and end up hitting a live cable. But then wouldn't every tool in your tool bag need to be insulated then? I don't see how this could be cost effective considering that there is a price premium for insulated tools for most items. (Like grips and stuff)

Thoughts?

 

[SJD]

I've found personally I just come to really dislike using non-VDE screwdrivers, cutters, pliers, etc for working on cables, even though I know they are dead. So I only keep the odd non-VDE large screwdriver for things I wouldn't do with my VDE ones, like propping a door open, or levering up a floorboard etc.

 

[Pete999]

I've found personally I just come to really dislike using non-VDE screwdrivers, cutters, pliers, etc for working on cables, even though I know they are dead. So I only keep the odd non-VDE large screwdriver for things I wouldn't do with my VDE ones, like propping a door open, or levering up a floorboard etc.

lifting floorboards with a screwdriver?

 

[Marvo]

If you're not live working, ie you've tested dead and locked out then VDE tools aren't necessary.

 

[SJD]

lifting floorboards with a screwdriver?

It was an example of where I wouldn't use a nice VDE tool. I have several proper floorboard lifting tools, but just sometimes a screwdriver comes in useful!

 

[TheConduitKing]

If you're not live working, ie you've tested dead and locked out then VDE tools aren't necessary.

Shouldn't VDE tools be supplied by the company if they require you to work live then? Although I'm probably living in fantasy land expecting that. XD

 

[Ian1981]

I don’t understand why any electrician engaged in electrical installation, testing and maintenance would want to have non insulated tools to be honest, the basic hand held tools are just that, basic and deserve to be in a Plumber’s/joiners tool kit at best.

 

[pc1966]

VDE style tools are not necessary for 'dead' working.

However, without them you can't safely do anything 'live' such as give any terminals in a CU a last check for tightness without powering the whole lot down and verifying it is safe. Yes, that might seem a bit dodgy for domestic work but in some cases it is a problem for the business to down everything if it is not absolutely essential if IT and so on is on that board.

Having said that, most plastic handled tools are going to provide a reasonable degree of insulation for 230V levels but you cannot depend on it as they are not designed and tested to do so (for example, they may not be designed to prevent fingers slipping over the handle on to the metal parts, etc). So I would never use metal handled pliers/cutters to cut in to any in-use cable I believe to be dead just in case I made a mistake, but would not always insist on using VDE style tools either for work that should be safe following a safe isolation procedure.

But given the space and weight limitations in your toolbox, it is usually better to have a few tools that can do anything you might need to, rather then doubling them up. For some tools there is not a significant cost difference, e.g. screwdrivers and small cutters, so I would say get VDE ones for that, but stuff like socket set & torque wrench for large terminals are expensive so if that is never going to be live working you might chose not to have insulated ones.

But just be very VERY careful when you go to use them as you will have a really good grip before it makes contact so plenty of shock current would flow...

 

[TheConduitKing]

VDE style tools are not necessary for 'dead' working.

However, without them you can't safely do anything 'live' such as give any terminals in a CU a last check for tightness without powering the whole lot down and verifying it is safe. Yes, that might seem a bit dodgy for domestic work but in some cases it is a problem for the business to down everything if it is not absolutely essential if IT and so on is on that board.

Having said that, most plastic handled tools are going to provide a reasonable degree of insulation for 230V levels but you cannot depend on it as they are not designed and tested to do so (for example, they may not be designed to prevent fingers slipping over the handle on to the metal parts, etc). So I would never use metal handled pliers/cutters to cut in to any in-use cable I believe to be dead just in case I made a mistake, but would not always insist on using VDE style tools either for work that should be safe following a safe isolation procedure.

But given the space and weight limitations in your toolbox, it is usually better to have a few tools that can do anything you might need to, rather then doubling them up. For some tools there is not a significant cost difference, e.g. screwdrivers and small cutters, so I would say get VDE ones for that, but stuff like socket set & torque wrench for large terminals are expensive so if that is never going to be live working you might chose not to have insulated ones.

But just be very VERY careful when you go to use them as you will have a really good grip before it makes contact so plenty of shock current would flow...

Ah, okay. That makes sense then.

 

[nicebutdim]

Wonder what percentage of sparks have cut through a live cable that they 'knew for certain' was dead?

 

[pc1966]

Wonder what percentage of sparks have cut through a live cable that they 'knew for certain' was dead?

I suspect it is far more common than we would like to think!

If you are cutting a cable where you can see the end and have just proving it dead, probably not. But if you have isolated a circuit and proven it dead in order to cut in to add something half-way along, then you can't be so sure!

That is possibly one of the few cases with a non-contact indicator might help to show the cable is not as dead as expected, but as they can't be trusted it would definitely be a case of insulated cutters and keeping one's face well back just in case.

Of course, if it is a high current conductor like a sub-main then you really ought to have some arc-flash PPE in use; at the very least some heat resistant leather gloves and a face mask.

 

[pc1966]

If doing PPE properly of course you get arc-flash rated clothing and should ware that as well as gloves & face-mask.

But even you are not dealing with such a high energy risk it is a good idea not to wear synthetic material such as nylon or polyester for jumpers & shirts, etc, normally. Cotton or wool is better, it is still not heat/flame proof, but at least won't melt and stick to your skin making such an incident a whole lot worse than it could have been.

 

[telectrix]

my lad once cut through a "disused" shower cable, ruined a pair of CK cutters. plumber had told him it was dead/disconnected.

Isaid to my lad. lesson 1.......never trust a wet-pants.

 

[Rockingit]

It's like this...... you don't need to be wearing a seatbelt in a car. Until the accident happens.

 

[7029 dave]

Yes you do need them, would never use anything else, anyway I love my boddingtons.

 

[telectrix]

Yes you do need them, would never use anything else, anyway I love my boddingtons.

i prefer Marstons.

 

[Pete999]

i prefer Marstons.

I

 

[Pete999]

I prefer "Cotes Du Rhone" cus I used to be posh

 

[7029 dave]

i prefer Marstons.

Is it a good beer Tel.

 

[7029 dave]

I prefer "Cotes Du Rhone" cus I used to be posh

Lol not a bad wine Pete