Dodgy electrics in many homes >:(

[RobinMitchell]

Hi Everyone,

I have noticed that in the past three houses that I have lived in there are always dodgy electrics.

In my bedroom there was a humming sound that always came from the ceiling rose but until now I assumed it was the dimmer switch. So today I changed the switch to a standard one (on off), but the buzzing was still there.

So at this point I knew "Damn, that has to be an electrical arc :O", so I took out the ceiling rose and to my disgust found the worse set of wiring skills ever. The ceiling rose does not have any terminal blocks built in which is why I did not mind finding loose terminal blocks. But one of these connectors was a transparent piece of plastic that has mini grips to connect multiple wires to a common bus. I took that out, cleaned all the connections and no more buzzing. I believe that the plastic connector was either old or the mechanical grips (no screws, just the force of the bent metal), was not making a solid contact so add some erosion and oxide and you have the perfect spark generator.

The previous house had wires not even on the correct circuits and the consumer units was useless.

Sometimes I just think to myself "ARRGGHH". How can this work pass at all? Is it being done by DIY people? Are there electricians who do work this badly? Its obvious to me that there are people who should just not be allowed near electrics.

Anyone care to share their disappointing stories?

 

[RobinMitchell]

I also forgot to mention how two, TWO, separate bathrooms in this house have a switch instead of a pull cord. Maybe they are outside the zones??? Nope, I can (no exaggeration), place my right hand over the faceplate and have my left hand in the running water. I dont need to read BS7671 to tell me that is in a terrible place!

 

[hightower]

I also forgot to mention how two, TWO, separate bathrooms in this house have a switch instead of a pull cord. Maybe they are outside the zones??? Nope, I can (no exaggeration), place my right hand over the faceplate and have my left hand in the running water. I dont need to read BS7671 to tell me that is in a terrible place!

Pretty sure you can install a switch outside of zone 2 which is 0.6 metres from edge of tub. Since your outstretched hand to your nose is around one metre this tells me the switch is well out of zone 2.

Might be a different story if you could switch the switch with the same hand that is in water, but how is it any different to being able to switch a kitchen socket off while the other hand is in the sink?

 

[HandySparks]

...I dont need to read BS7671...

Yes you do.

 

[RobinMitchell]

I measured the switch and it is in-fact inside the zone 2 (around 40cm). When I said I do not need to read BS7671 what I was implying was that the distance between the switch and tub is obviously too close.

By the way, BS7671 is not a legal document, its a guide line for common practice. In a court of law you can use the BS7671 to show that your work is satisfactory.

 

[hightower]

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by telling a forum of seasoned sparks that bs7671 is non-statutory

 

[RobinMitchell]

A member took a statement from my other post out of context completely. To be honest looking back on it I am not even sure why I posted the remark on BS7671 :S Maybe I'm just very tired right now (and ill with the cold, yay).

What I was trying to say was that the switch is obviously close to the sink. (An idiot could tell you that without looking at BS7671). Sort of like having bare live wires just hanging around in the middle of the room, anyone can tell you that its dangerous (dont need a book for that one).

 

[Marvo]

.....What I was trying to say was that the switch is obviously close to the sink. (An idiot could tell you that without looking at BS7671). .....

Does the bathroom electrical zoning take sinks/basins into consideration in the UK?

 

[ruston]

And did you leave it like that , or have it altered?

 

[HandySparks]

Are there electricians who do work this badly? Its obvious to me that there are people who should just not be allowed near electrics.

Part of the problem is that the Part P Competent Person Schemes only require the company to be registered, not the individual tradesman.

Also, unless someone's killed or seriously injured and the HSE get involved, there are, in practise, no real penalties for poor work.

 

[Sintra]

Does the bathroom electrical zoning take sinks/basins into consideration in the UK?

Not that I know of.

 

[HandySparks]

Does the bathroom electrical zoning take sinks/basins into consideration in the UK?

The current, Amendment 3, regs make no reference to basins (other than shower basins) when defining the zones in rooms containing a bath or shower. Hence the need to actually read the regs!

 

[Marvo]

The current, Amendment 3, regs make no reference to basins (other than shower basins) when defining the zones in rooms containing a bath or shower. Hence the need to actually read the regs!

I have a copy kicking about somewhere but gawd knows where, they're not something I refer to more than once a year maybe and I'm pretty sure my copy isn't the latest amendment....hence the stupid questions.

 

[HandySparks]

I have a copy kicking about somewhere but gawd knows where, they're not something I refer to more than once a year maybe and I'm pretty sure my copy isn't the latest amendment....hence the stupid questions.

My second sentence wasn't aimed at you Marvo. I know that you won't have much use for BS7671 where you are.

 

[RobinMitchell]

Im shocked that a sink does not fall under section 702

 

[RobinMitchell]

General Technical FAQ's

This recommends that the device be at least 300mm away from the sink which it is. But I cannot believe that this is good practice in any way. If you are in a situation where you have wet hands (or in splashing distance), there should be no out let or mains switch unless isolated via a transformer to a lower voltage. The only exception I can think of is a switch that has is all plastic and uses a rubber membrane to seal the internal electrics.

 

[Andy78]

So the extent of your gripes about dodgy electrics are fatigued connectors and plate switches in bathrooms ?

In the words of Bachman Turner Overdrive, you ain't seen nuthin' yet.

 

[RobinMitchell]

Oh god is there worse to come?

Mind you, I have seen the following as well:

Piece of metal instead of fuse
Scissors in earth to connect American plug
Bare conductors with no insulation close to each other
80mA RCD in a TT system
Downstairs light was not connected to down stairs light circuit. Dad got shocked :/

I know that people here will have seen far worse but it still upsets me to know this happens frequently.

 

[snowhead]

Im shocked that a sink does not fall under section 702

You need to understand the difference between contact and immersion.

 

[snowhead]

Downstairs light was not connected to down stairs light circuit. Dad got shocked :/

Failure to carry out safe isolation.