ECA and ESC announce major partnership

[brman]

I'd like to see 12 month MOTs for sparks tested by engineers with at least 10 years experience in the trade and who are to date with regs and ammendments myself. the criteria can be discussed regarding the MOTs at any time IMO

Got to admit I am not sure what you mean by the MOTs. The current yearly assessments are a check of the quality of your work plus and a check you are up to date with the regs. What are you suggesting that should be different?

 

[MDJ]

but who checks it and whats thier qualifications?

 

[Spudnik]

Personally, i think this is a step in the right direction.

 

[RJT_94]

I sent my email to Napit this morning asking why and what they intend to do no reply as yet

 

[brman]

but who checks it and whats thier qualifications?

Ah, right. I see your problem. My assessor obviously knew his stuff but I can't answer for any others.
I would certainly be happy to get a bit more of a grilling at assessment time though. Questions like how I would deal with common problems etc rather than just the stuff you can look up in the on site guide....

 

[Des 56]

There is nothing wrong with someone inexperienced or unqualified doing work. Just as long as he is properly supervised by a QS. Same in industry as it is in domestic! Lets face it, how do you get experience without doing it for real? How do you employ a lad if you are not allowed to let him work on site?

I also think the situation is already very clear. If a QS signs off some work then he is signing to say he has supervised the work, seen it at all stages and can guarantee its quality and he can't do that from an office.

Again, it is about policing. No scheme will work if you just assume that everything will be fine if you have the right bit of paper. I believe this is the biggest problem with the schemes at present.

I believe training and electrician mentored on site supervision is exactly what should and what has in the past been the most effective way of producing a competent spark,there is no argument about supervision or unskilled operatives gaining experience

The system currently used by the Niceic regarding a sole Qualifying supervisor is not to be confused with adequate training or systems that promote training to operatives who may not be competent for unsupervised work

The Niceic QS system is an invite to open abuse and should not be permitted.it is not a substitute for training either
There can and should be no argument against individual competence for employees doing skilled work

 

[brman]

I believe training and electrician mentored on site supervision is exactly what should and what has in the past been the most effective way of producing a competent spark,there is no argument about supervision or unskilled operatives gaining experience

The system currently used by the Niceic regarding a sole Qualifying supervisor is not to be confused with adequate training or systems that promote training to operatives who may not be competent for unsupervised work

The Niceic QS system is an invite to open abuse and should not be permitted.it is not a substitute for training either
There can and should be no argument against individual competence for employees doing skilled work

I can't argue with that

 

[Knobhead]

Personally, i think this is a step in the right direction.

If the schemes could be trusted I’d agree with you Jason. Remember I’ve no axe to grind, as it doesn’t concern me directly. But as an observer I see things differently, I see an industry being gutted by profiteers.
Safety and informing the public doesn’t come in to it.

 

[Zeno]

The level of hypocrisy from the Schemes is beyond belief, the standard for Contractors and Electricians is set in the EAS Committee, that is where the 5DW to the Electrical Trainee are agreed to be let in, the following people attend,

British Standards Institution (BG)
Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG)
Benchmark Certification Ltd
Electrical Contractors’ Association (ECA)
ECA Certification ltd (incorporating ELECSA)
Electrical Safety Council
Fire Industry Association (FIA)
Health and Safety Executive (HSE)
Institution of Engineering and Technology (IET)
NAPIT Registration Ltd
National Association of Professional Inspectors and Testers (NAPIT)
Ascertiva Group Ltd (trading as NICEIC)
Oil Firing Technical Association (OFTEC)
Electrical Contractors’ Association of Scotland (SELECT)
Society of Electrical and Mechanical Engineers Serving Local Government (SCEME)
SummitSkills
United Kingdom Accreditation Service (UKAS)

So the above organisations are all aware of the dangers that the public face and for their own business reasons turn a blind eye to it.

The Schemes and the IET are the only ones that vote the rest observe, presumably with a nothing to do with me look on their faces.

Now there is some low level bitching as they manoeuvre themselves to try and get the best commercial benefit from Part P MK2, which will be announced before Christmas.

So NAPIT more than a year ago took the initiative to start ElectricSafe which is free and open to ALL members of Schemes.

Within days the ECA/ESC/NICEIC started their proprietary Electrical Safety Register, open only to ECA/ELECSA and ESC/NICEIC members.

This cheap politics, which Our Trade funds indirectly is damaging to Our businesses, it is absolutely appalling

The statements about Not for Profit are meaningless, there are no shareholders but directors and owners can pay themselves what they want, that probably makes us all Not for Profits as well!

 

[Guest111]

I was a qs for a firm years ago and was called into the office regarding testing on newbuilds.The issue was that the boss wanted more houses tested than I could do in a day,his answer was to get one of the lads to do some tests and me sign the ticket,I refused to do this as in my opinion it was not on,the following week I found a phase earth reverse fault on a ring main that had been wired by one of our so called foolproof sparks and supposedly checked.Incidentally I left the company soon after.