EU Brexit - How will you vote given the latest "news"

[sparksburnout]

if only we could bring churchill back to life.........

Sod off it was him that started all this cr*p!

 

[Darkwood]

It's not as a daft as you think.
If we had nothing to do with Europe, the officials could easily turn a blind eye to who leaves their borders.
Politicians don't want to admit it, but Britain needs immigrants. We have an ageing and dwindling population and if today's workforce are to get a pension we need young blood that's prepared to have families and work. They are facts, nobody likes to admit them , but it's sadly true.
As usual, politicians will tell us everything but the truth.
Boris wants us to leave, that should surely set alarm bells ringing for everyone.

No one says immigration is a bad thing and both sides agree on that, both sides also agree that we currently have too much immigration and you can only reduce it by controlling it, the issue is how to control it, the EU has a fundamental rule of free movement and will not budge on it so as they control our borders to EU citizens then the only plausible way of controlling our borders again is to leave the EU ....to say Europe will turn a blind eye to who leaves their borders doesn't make sense, its not the countries the immigrants leave that control migration its the borders of the country that they enter, you still have to show your passport when you arrive even if your from the EU, if we regain control then we can choose who comes and how they benefit our country so if we have a nurse shortage that cannot be filled by UK citizens then we gives a higher points award to anyone wanting to come in with the right skills, this system then is fair no matter what country your from around the world and doesn't give priority to say a Greek Doctor over an Indian doctor just because of where they come from... at the moment we cannot say no to any EU citizen and we are having to put stricter control on non-EU immigrants which is biased and unfair and as has been proven not to be workable, limiting overall immigration while we have unrestricted EU member access cannot be done. I don't know your age here but the majority of the Elder populous want out and the reason is mainly because they have witnessed over the last 40yrs how the EU has impacted the UK, how when anyone could access a doctor within 24hrs, where education standards were higher and we had enough places at your school of choice for your children, where you could leave school and get a job and apply for a mortgage with a high rate of success, even been part of the EU all this was possible until about 1997 then as a leaving gift Tony Blair cut lots of red tape regarding immigration which led to a massive rise from an easily managed 30000 a year to what we now see as well over 300 000 officially but is estimated to be 800000 as many don't go through the system to be counted.
Just take a look at our Jails with some now >50% EU criminals and the EU red tape is so difficult to get through that it means we have a small towns worth of criminals waiting deportation just to the EU alone, taking our borders back and controlling them would stop EU criminals legally coming to the UK as we will only take in EU members who show they would benefit our society. Its worked for Australia and is still working so this is in no way a leap in the dark as we have a well trialed model to follow, what did make me laugh was Camerons reply saying immigration in Australia's point based system is twice that of the UK until someone pointed out to him that that is because they choose it to be.

If we leave and regain control then:-

-Thousands of places in jails become available.
-Housing can start to catch up with demand which will see prices lower for first time buyers.
-Wages for the poorest will rise as big PLC's can no longer favour the low skilled lower wage EU citizens from a UK citizen.
-Hospital, Doctors waiting times start to fall as our National health is no longer trying to supplement the International position it finds itself in.
-Lower demand for school places and less pupils whose first laungage isn't English, this means teachers are not having to give more resources and attention to non English EU citizens at the cost in time and education of our own offspring.


These and many more are just the plausable benefits of taking back control and are based on recent UK history when Immigration was at a controllable level so not based on wild fanciful guesses, it used to be like this but with the intergration of yet more poorer nations into the EU we will see yet more rises in immigration and as the southern EU members see no ease in youth unemployment and massive debts to Brussels its clear its going to get alot worse before it gets better.

When more poorer members join up we are set to be asked to give more to the EU as we were when Poland, Romania etc joined... so unless someone can justify staying in as oppose to scaremongering what nasty things would happen if we left then Im obviously out and thats based on following EU politics for years.

 

[telectrix]

a well thought out post, full of truths, not the crap the politicians dish out. it really wants posting on social media to give some of the undecided a no=biassed viewpoint.

 

[Octopus]

On LBC this morning they wanted people to call in and recount the most ridiculous thing they had heard from either "camp" - I was too busy to try but the best one I've heard so far is:

David Cameron on the Sky EU debate "we can control immigration from within the EU"


Moron.

We know he can't, he knows he can't, so why say it?

 

[Octopus]

No one says immigration is a bad thing and both sides agree on that, both sides also agree that we currently have too much immigration and you can only reduce it by controlling it, the issue is how to control it, the EU has a fundamental rule of free movement and will not budge on it so as they control our borders to EU citizens then the only plausible way of controlling our borders again is to leave the EU ....to say Europe will turn a blind eye to who leaves their borders doesn't make sense, its not the countries the immigrants leave that control migration its the borders of the country that they enter, you still have to show your passport when you arrive even if your from the EU, if we regain control then we can choose who comes and how they benefit our country so if we have a nurse shortage that cannot be filled by UK citizens then we gives a higher points award to anyone wanting to come in with the right skills, this system then is fair no matter what country your from around the world and doesn't give priority to say a Greek Doctor over an Indian doctor just because of where they come from... at the moment we cannot say no to any EU citizen and we are having to put stricter control on non-EU immigrants which is biased and unfair and as has been proven not to be workable, limiting overall immigration while we have unrestricted EU member access cannot be done. I don't know your age here but the majority of the Elder populous want out and the reason is mainly because they have witnessed over the last 40yrs how the EU has impacted the UK, how when anyone could access a doctor within 24hrs, where education standards were higher and we had enough places at your school of choice for your children, where you could leave school and get a job and apply for a mortgage with a high rate of success, even been part of the EU all this was possible until about 1997 then as a leaving gift Tony Blair cut lots of red tape regarding immigration which led to a massive rise from an easily managed 30000 a year to what we now see as well over 300 000 officially but is estimated to be 800000 as many don't go through the system to be counted.
Just take a look at our Jails with some now >50% EU criminals and the EU red tape is so difficult to get through that it means we have a small towns worth of criminals waiting deportation just to the EU alone, taking our borders back and controlling them would stop EU criminals legally coming to the UK as we will only take in EU members who show they would benefit our society. Its worked for Australia and is still working so this is in no way a leap in the dark as we have a well trialed model to follow, what did make me laugh was Camerons reply saying immigration in Australia's point based system is twice that of the UK until someone pointed out to him that that is because they choose it to be.

If we leave and regain control then:-

-Thousands of places in jails become available.
-Housing can start to catch up with demand which will see prices lower for first time buyers.
-Wages for the poorest will rise as big PLC's can no longer favour the low skilled lower wage EU citizens from a UK citizen.
-Hospital, Doctors waiting times start to fall as our National health is no longer trying to supplement the International position it finds itself in.
-Lower demand for school places and less pupils whose first laungage isn't English, this means teachers are not having to give more resources and attention to non English EU citizens at the cost in time and education of our own offspring.


These and many more are just the plausable benefits of taking back control and are based on recent UK history when Immigration was at a controllable level so not based on wild fanciful guesses, it used to be like this but with the intergration of yet more poorer nations into the EU we will see yet more rises in immigration and as the southern EU members see no ease in youth unemployment and massive debts to Brussels its clear its going to get alot worse before it gets better.

When more poorer members join up we are set to be asked to give more to the EU as we were when Poland, Romania etc joined... so unless someone can justify staying in as oppose to scaremongering what nasty things would happen if we left then Im obviously out and thats based on following EU politics for years.

You forgot one.

If we leave ALL the international companies will HAVE TO do proper tax returns and business accounts for their UK subsidiaries - none of this moving profit to Luxembourg for its lower tax rate....

 

[sparksburnout]

a well thought out post, full of truths, not the crap the politicians dish out. it really wants posting on social media to give some of the undecided a no=biassed viewpoint.

Absolutely right Tel. I think DW is wasted as a sparky, he should be running the country.

 

[Wonderwall]

I nearly replied along the lines of what country are you living in, but iv'e just noticed. What a load of bl**dy rubbish do you get the daily mail up there??

Daily mail???!! What are you going on about.
Dont jump to conclusions now, I'm not all for mass immigration. I think we all know the main problem but not allowed to say it.
My gut instinct tells me to be very wary of what Boris and Farage are telling us.

 

[sparksburnout]

Daily mail???!! What are you going on about.
Dont jump to conclusions now, I'm not all for mass immigration. I think we all know the main problem but not allowed to say it.
My gut instinct tells me to be very wary of what Boris and Farage are telling us.

Why?? Go on, what's the main problem?

 

[Midwest]

Absolutely right Tel. I think DW is wasted as a sparky, he should be running the country.

He waffle's on a bit though. Mind you, so do most politicians!

 

[Midwest]

Why?? Go on, what's the main problem?

How about they lie, like pigs in manure. I refer you to post 497.

 

[Darkwood]

Daily mail???!! What are you going on about.
Dont jump to conclusions now, I'm not all for mass immigration. I think we all know the main problem but not allowed to say it.
My gut instinct tells me to be very wary of what Boris and Farage are telling us.

Boris is Boris I must agree, but Farage is kind of a different kettle of fish, as part of the UKIP he has by those who don't really follow politics been classed as racist, xenophobic, biggot etc etc you name it, he's been tagged with it and in some cases he only has himself to blame for not choosing his words better but although Mr Farage is somewhat a recent political entity to most UK people he's been well known in Brussels for many a year and throughout that time he has done nothing else but stand up for the UK and and critisise the unelected undemocratic elite that runs the EU, love him or hate him you can actually thank Mr Farage for the referendum as it was the Tories base fear of losing votes to UKIP that forced Cameron to make his fateful promise of a referendum in the first place, un-beknown to Mr Cameron Labour voting would crash mainly to do with SNP stripping them of a sizeable chunk of votes and also LIB Dems plummeted for betraying the very people that prop them up... this Led is a Conservative majority which wasn't on anyones cards including Cam's hence he said he would offer a referendum if they won, at best he expected another coalition thus he could default on that promise.

Mr Cameron now in theory could go down as the catalyst that destroyed the EU, not that it was doing so well anyway but if we were to leave and prosper the knock on effects for the EU could be deep as other countries see the benefits of trading worldwide without been ring fenced into a trade block and limited to external trade.... this is all hypothetical of course but not that far fetched IMHO, what ever happens, if we did exit then the EU has some changes to make to stop itself imploding any further than it has now...

Strange all negative stories about the EU are not on our news a lately like the music concert in Germany where immigrants were sexually assaulting and raping people, or the greek immigrant camp where internal rioting between immigrant from different backgrounds due to children been raped and assaulted or even the riots in some member states that have occured recently.... its almost like we are in a George Orwell movie where information is controlled to benefit the state.

 

[Wonderwall]

Why?? Go on, what's the main problem?

I simply don't trust them.
Do you respect and trust Boris?

 

[silverfox1]

A few quotes for you.


“Fundamental renegotiation is very, very unlikely to produce any significant change,” Vince Cable, on the subject of Cameron’s plans 10th September 2013


“I have lived in your future ….and it doesn’t work” (Russian dissident Vladimir Bukovsky on the EU)


‘If it’s a Yes we will say “on we go”, and if it’s a No we will say “we continue”.’ (Jean-Claude Juncker, President of the European Council)


“They must go on voting until they get it right.” (Jose Manuel Barroso, President of the European Commission)


“Let’s be clear about this. The rejection of the constitution was a mistake that will have to be corrected.” (Valéry Giscard d’Estaing)


“The ‘no’ votes were a demand for more Europe, not less.” (Romano Prodi, former President of the European Commission)


“No government dependent on a democratic vote could possibly agree in advance to the sacrifices which any adequate plan for European Union must involve. The people must be led slowly and unconsciously into the abandonment of their traditional economic defences, not asked…” (Peter Thorneycroft, former Tory MP)


“The huge cost of the Common Agricultural Policy to taxpayers and consumers far outweighs any benefit to them…” (Memo by MAFF to House of Lords European Communities Committee 1995)

 

[Darkwood]

He waffle's on a bit though. Mind you, so do most politicians!

Your lucky this is a side interest and not my main study, if we were on a quantum physics thread then all bets are off as that's my hobby.

 

[sparksburnout]

I simply don't trust them.
Do you respect and trust Boris?

It isn't about individuals and whether or not you trust them, it is about forming an opinion based on the evidence available, and a common sense approach as to what the future will bring. Contrary to your previous comment, our services are already dangerously stretched. We have problems with housing stock, oversized classrooms, social services and a gradual drop in levels of pay particularly amongst unskilled workers. There are unacceptable levels of unemployment among young people over much of Europe, because growth in the EU has been stifled. As can be seen from the quotes provided by Silverfox the EU is an un-demoratic monster led by unelected power crazed and as far as I am concerned untrustworthy politicians. We pay outrageous sums of money in order to bolster up the failing or failed economies of many of the other member states, money that we could be far better invested in our own country. The NHS is providing health care for half of Europe, no wonder it is falling apart. We have been conned right from day one by that clown Ted Heath and his like, and in my opinion we need to take this golden opportunity to abandon this mess and stand on our own two feet again. To answer your question I think Boris speaks a damn sight more sense than most of the Remain mob and I respect him a lot more than Cameron, Osborne & Co.

 

[telectrix]

I simply don't trust them.
Do you respect and trust Boris?

i'd trust boris before i'd trust the hyenas that are at present in the government and the main opposition.

 

[telectrix]

It isn't about individuals and whether or not you trust them, it is about forming an opinion based on the evidence available, and a common sense approach as to what the future will bring. Contrary to your previous comment, our services are already dangerously stretched. We have problems with housing stock, oversized classrooms, social services and a gradual drop in levels of pay particularly amongst unskilled workers. There are unacceptable levels of unemployment among young people over much of Europe, because growth in the EU has been stifled. As can be seen from the quotes provided by Silverfox the EU is an un-demoratic monster led by unelected power crazed and as far as I am concerned untrustworthy politicians. We pay outrageous sums of money in order to bolster up the failing or failed economies of many of the other member states, money that we could be far better invested in our own country. The NHS is providing health care for half of Europe, no wonder it is falling apart. We have been conned right from day one by that clown Ted Heath and his like, and in my opinion we need to take this golden opportunity to abandon this mess and stand on our own two feet again. To answer your question I think Boris speaks a damn sight more sense than most of the Remain mob and I respect him a lot more than Cameron, Osborne & Co.

well said. my sentiments exactly.

 

[Octopus]

“They must go on voting until they get it right.” (Jose Manuel Barroso, President of the European Commission)

Hum.... so if its a win for out and the EU ask us to vote again do they think we will say yes on the 2nd try? I think its likely to alienate more people and just go to show how undemocratic the EU is.

After all about 4 weeks ago the Dutch had a vote and the EU completely ignored their wishes....

 

[sparksburnout]

Hum.... so if its a win for out and the EU ask us to vote again do they think we will say yes on the 2nd try? I think its likely to alienate more people and just go to show how undemocratic the EU is.

After all about 4 weeks ago the Dutch had a vote and the EU completely ignored their wishes....

They will be the next out after us.

 

[silverfox1]

An interesting development.

[h=1]MPs 'considering using majority' to keep UK in single market[/h]
see here. MPs 'considering using majority' to keep UK in single market - BBC News