Fast Track Training - yes or no?

[ferdinand]

Hi everyone. I have recently been made redundant and have, for a while before that, thought of learning a skilled trade. However, having a young family does not give me time to do 2 year college course or low paid training on the job. Also, I don't believe the current economic climate would allow many contractors to take one new unskilled staff and train them up. Sooooooooo ...... I have been looking at various fast track courses - the one that stands out is RF training - this is 7 weeks long and has no distance learning - all onsite with tutor and assessed by C&G etc. This course is very expensive (nearly 6K) but includes kit and Megger in price as well as free resit if needed. They have 100% pass rate and this includes 17 edition Regs, Part P full scope, C&G 2392 and LOGIC testing/inspection award. They are so confident they even told me to bring along any electrical contractors I know for a day so they can show them how well the course is done ....

Is this REALLY possible? I don't doubt I can pass the various parts of the course but I will still need experience as well won't I? No one would employ me with JUST the certificates? Confidence in my ability will only come with on-the-job experience also. So is this a waste of money? would any contractor let me work for them for next to nothing, just to gain my confidence - or would they presume I was after their customers? Does the profession look down on these sort of courses as a sort of 'cheats' way into the trade? I know 3 electrical contractors and I am doing a bit of research and just trying to gauge opinion.
Any sort of advice is welcome!

Cheers.

 

[zsoltimatrix]

"'....and this includes 17 edition Regs, Part P full scope, C&G 2392 and LOGIC testing/inspection award. "

Six grands are waaaay to expensive for these.

17edition is only a 100 pounds exam if you prepare yourself for it.
2392 is just half way to 2391. In other words it is almost like nothing. All employers will look for 2391.
Part P is a one day assessment, it is not a qualification.

You will still miss these: 2330. 2391 and if you want to earn good money than NVQ level 3 and AM2 for JIB card.

If you want to get qualified do it in a proper way. 2330 -> 17edition -> 2391 -> AM2 = JIB installation electrician (aprooved after 2 years). This will be much longer than 6-7 weeks but this is the proper way.

 

[ferdinand]

Cheers for the help, - I'm trying to cut through all the obvious sales talk that come with these courses and to be honest I'm not sure I trust them - I can't imagine you can be a spark after 7 weeks! So really, unless I can find someone to take me on as a trainee, it's a waste of money.

 

[russty]

Take a look in the jobs forum section, your find alot of people out there in the same boat!!

 

[nickblake]

I would love to say yes fast track the training ,but unless you have a photographic memory then na every one in the outside world thinks electrics is just connectiong a few wire together ,nope it can get very complex , its taken me years to get to the knowlage and experiance that i have keeping up to date ,and even now ive not even touched the base of whats out there ,thats why this forum is so good its a black hole of information with the likes of sintra lenny phil and all the guys that contribute , i do wish you well and hope that you get the quallies i will say go for it we all have to start some where

 

[UNG]

To quote an old guy working on a site I was on a number of years ago

Reading the Kama Sutra is one thing but putting the theory into practice is another game entirely

I think it sums up these fast track courses very well

Without the internet and forums like these I think the fast track course would be dead in the water

 

[ferdinand]

Cheers chaps.

You seem to be confirming my concerns. I'd hate to do an course and then struggle to get any experience and end up forgetting everything before I had chance to use it. I'd only take a course if I can find someone who can give me some experience once I've done the course. I do honestly believe there is no substitue for experience, so I'm thinking do a course to give me a basic knowledge and then get experience/training on the job if it can be done.

BUT obviously the current climate is a nightmare so people are less inclined to spend time/effort/money on training someone up. But one chap I know says there's tons of work out there and another says there's none?????

I've been labouring for kitchen fitters since I lost my job so I'm happy to start at the bottom!

Thanks for your advice.

 

[Steve1412]

Always a bit dubious of these fast track things...I saw one the other day reckoning to make you a qualified Elec in 70 days!!!!!!When I was a lad and serving my time I did 24 weeks solid in my first year at college ( 3 blocks of eight) to get my 236 pt 1...then 22 weeks second year for part 2...all the time not at college was at work....9 hours per week for the next 2 years to get Part 3 ( ONC) then same again for HNC.......70 days...pah!!!!!

 

[ferdinand]

pah! indeed. :0)

That's what I'm on about - HOW can it be possible?

I think if I accept the course as just a quick way to get a basic knowledge to save an experienced guy a bit of time when training me and as a stepping stone to getting a place as a mate for someone that's okay - But I think I'd be a bit of a mug to believe the hype from the course tutors - apparently 85% of people who complete the course go self employed straight away on leaving *GULP* reeeeaaaallly????????

 

[Steve1412]

70 days could give you a basic grounding in domestic electrics and if your naturally good at handling tools could see you in good stead for a future as an electrician....I am well qualified and have 25yrs under my belt but everyday I browse on this forum I always pick something up from the guys on here...........start off with the basic NVQs and work at it bit by bit....the most important thing IMO is to get hooked up with a good sparky who will show you the real stuff....Good Luck buddy!

 

[Lee85]

"'....and this includes 17 edition Regs, Part P full scope, C&G 2392 and LOGIC testing/inspection award. "

Six grands are waaaay to expensive for these.

17edition is only a 100 pounds exam if you prepare yourself for it.
2392 is just half way to 2391. In other words it is almost like nothing. All employers will look for 2391.
Part P is a one day assessment, it is not a qualification.

You will still miss these: 2330. 2391 and if you want to earn good money than NVQ level 3 and AM2 for JIB card.

If you want to get qualified do it in a proper way. 2330 -> 17edition -> 2391 -> AM2 = JIB installation electrician (aprooved after 2 years). This will be much longer than 6-7 weeks but this is the proper way.

Actually you don't need the am2 to get the installation electrician JIB card. You need 2360 parts 1 & 2 or equiv (2330 lev2 & lev3) and NVQ lev 3. These Are the minimum quals as stated in grading section of the JIB website. The AM2 can form part of the NVQ but you don't have to do it. It just means your portfolio will be bigger. Our good friends at delta training can explain fully! ; ).

As for 2391, this is for when you want the "approved electrician" along with 2 years experience.

So to summarize "Electrician" as defined by the JIB = 2360 pt2 or 2330 lev 3, plus NVQ 3.

Many threads covering this but still the confusion....Doesn't matter they are changing it all again next year, just to confuse us all even more.........

Have a good day boys

 

[morph]

when you read some threads from 5 day wonders you realise that the short courses are not enough, only a time served electrician is up to scratch, it takes years to to learn the trade not 5 days or weeks, what ever next be a Doctor in a month?

 

[brucelee]

Hi mate

the short course your thinking of doing would give you what you need to know to be a domestic installer and allow you to register with elecsa to set up on your own not a electrician as they state as you will not have the knowledge or experience to work in commercial or industrial

the course your thinking of doing i have done but the quals were a bit different 2382-10, 2377, 2393, and the logic full scope electrical level A ad defined scopes level B,C,
I only went this route because it was impossible to get on 2330 due to age being told to old to go the college route or told there was no training available for me I have tried many times over the last 24 years to get back on a apprentice type course but always told to old ,no training available or no help with funding etc
I had a apprenticeship 24 yrs ago and gave it up to my regret i have returned to electrical installation work many times including doing new build for years rewires, some commercial and a little industrial with other sparkys
but mainly domestic new build and rewires

The course has its limitations as you have to cram it all into a short space of time and they will only basically teach you about domestic installation in how to design, construct and inspect and test your own work but its only done on boards and rigs like they would at college and the theory behind it its very rushed ad if i had the choice i wuld have gone the college route which i have just done for the 2391-10 which i passed first time even though i am not employed in the industry anythings possible if you are willing to put the effort in

you can go this route and then do the NVQ 2356 without the 2330 or similar but you would have to pay more £900+ with Delta Training because you would have to do a Knowledge assessment because through not doing 2330 or similar they say you wuld be lacking the underpinning knowledge gained from 2330 or aprenticeship and the you can apply for JIB gold card status it is possible as this is the way i am going to do it and have been looking into it

You only really learn how to do the job i the real world by working with good sparkys who are willing to teach you ad show you what thay have learned through experience and time

If you wat my honest opinion I would say go the college route as you will learn more and eventually be fully qualified and approved but it can be done the quick way maybe not the best option but nevertheless still possible

but the 2330 and 2356 nvq are ending soon and replaced by C&G2357 which is a combination of both and to enrol for this you do have to be working in the industry

the private route are just trying to get your money and rush you through the courses and exams
the cheaper ad better method is college BUt able skills in dartford Kent are offering everything you would need to be a fully qualified electrician including the 2330 and the 2356

depending onyour age i would go the apprentice route

 

[mattyevz]

I agree with the above. You really need on site experiance, and that takes years. Ok on paper you can become qualified and then go self employed but remember any cock ups come back to you. An apprentice would learn from mistakes and be guided though it by the experianced guy.

When i was an apprentice college was crap i learnt very little and all the problems are on a rig board right in front of you .99% of your learning is on site.

 

[Bob Didymus]

Bit late with my enquiry on fast tracking, but after a visit from a salesman from Train 4 Trade Skills earlier today, prompted by their claims that the electrical industry is desperate for qualified tradespeople, I thought I should check out this avenue more thoroughly. I am currently unemployed and 54 years old with some experience of self employment. They are offering training to NVQ level 3 taking in C & G qualifications levels 2 and 3 including 2382, 2330, 2391 with practical exam, plus AM2, Which I am assured will allow me to work in domestic situations on a self employed or contracted basis with appropriate access to insurance liability cover. The cost of home study with two or three hands on week long residential courses is £5770 in total repayable at £135 monthly, but as an unemployed person if I could be sure there is a demand for people out there I may be persuaded that this would be a worthwhile investment. Be really grateful to hear the grass roots opinion on realistic earnings levels and amount of work available in current economic climate from anybody who would be kind enough to spare the time to reply.

 

[russty]

Tell the salesman to stick his course up his a**e cause thats where he's talking from!!

 

[morph]

If your prepared to do the 2330 and 2382 then it is worth doing and even better if you do 2391, if you only want to do a part p course then probably not worth doing, there is work for good quality sparks. the course is obviously very intense but if you can hack that then go for it the 2330 course is about 20 weeks i think, it normally takes 2 - 3 years.

Bit late with my enquiry on fast tracking, but after a visit from a salesman from Train 4 Trade Skills earlier today, prompted by their claims that the electrical industry is desperate for qualified tradespeople, I thought I should check out this avenue more thoroughly. I am currently unemployed and 54 years old with some experience of self employment. They are offering training to NVQ level 3 taking in C & G qualifications levels 2 and 3 including 2382, 2330, 2391 with practical exam, plus AM2, Which I am assured will allow me to work in domestic situations on a self employed or contracted basis with appropriate access to insurance liability cover. The cost of home study with two or three hands on week long residential courses is £5770 in total repayable at £135 monthly, but as an unemployed person if I could be sure there is a demand for people out there I may be persuaded that this would be a worthwhile investment. Be really grateful to hear the grass roots opinion on realistic earnings levels and amount of work available in current economic climate from anybody who would be kind enough to spare the time to reply.

 

[Bigboy247]

I take my hat off to you, thats a great deal of book work. The way I would look at is
C & G 2330 level 2 & 3.
C & G 2382 17th Edition,
C & G 2391 level 3
NVQ 2356 do when you have work to build your portfolio.= JIB gold card.
Part P if you are looking at just doing domestic ,but never hurts if they throw it in free.
That will give you a very good understanding and basic skills to get on the job ladder, where you will pick up the nuts and bolts and tricks to make life easyer. But you will only as good as the people you work with and depends on the environments you do. I wish you well as its a dog eat dog world but keep trying and shop around see who is local and gives you the best price and go see them have a good look at training ask about.

 

[Sparky Ninja]

If ever people try to make this decision I tell them to look on the job sites at what they expect an electrician to be..

 

[millwall ken]

Mate, you can have every ticket in the world but it doesn't mean zip without some experience to go alongside it. Would you trust a Doctor who was to carry out life saving surgery on you if he had no actual experience? The thing with these fast track courses is mate, is that once you've got the paperwork, you'll expect the same pay as someone who has the experience to match your quals.

 

[matt456]

I say that at least your doing something to get a job rather than dole scrounging!!
But there is NOT a serious shortage of electricians, the guy is a salesman selling training of course he will say that! Where i live there are loads of companies looking for work and there isnt enough for everyone.
The best route is to try and get an electricians mate job as a route in then do night classes and do it that way as you will not be a spark in 6 weeks!
6 week sparks are frowned upon in the industrial and commercial sectors!

Is there not some law about misleading information with regards to these advertisements it might be worth a look as people are just being conned