Fitting Sockets.

[Ray Pooley]

I guess you could file this under hints and tips.

When you're installing a socket the worst part, for me at least, is pushing it into place
and keeping it there while you tighten the screws. That means bending the cables,
however many there are. It can be quite a feat of strength and and a bit nerve racking.
I have actually cracked a few new sockets in the past and had to replace again.
I use pointed nose pliars to bend them but it's still a pain and a struggle.

What do you guys do? Is there a special pair of pliars available for this purpose?
Bending the cables? I did see something on the net a while ago but can't find it now.
Should have bought one when I saw it I suppose.

Any suggestions?

Cheers

 

[telectrix]

tip 1. use 35mm back box.
tip 2. cut cables long enough to manouvre, but not so long as to struggle to get them in.
tip3. never allow customer to buyflat plate gimmicky accessories.

 

[Ray Pooley]

tip 1. use 35mm back box.
tip 2. cut cables long enough to manouvre, but not so long as to struggle to get them in.
tip3. never allow customer to buyflat plate gimmicky accessories.

Thanks. Anything when it comes to actually bending the cables? Even 2.5mm can be a challenge when you have 6 of them (plus 3 earth) to get in there.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Never really hand an issue folding cables back, just ensure they are cut to the correct length, not too short and not too long...
3 x 2.5s in a single 25mm back box takes a little practice but is achievable.

a good impact driver to screw the face plates on also helps...

 

[DefyG]

Cant say I've ever had a problem where faceplates have cracked. Ensure box is deep enough and dont bend them all the same way.
Tighten screws evenly (ie dont wind the RH one all the way in first)

 

[Ray Pooley]

Cant say I've ever had a problem where faceplates have cracked. Ensure box is deep enough and dont bend them all the same way.
Tighten screws evenly (ie dont wind the RH one all the way in first)

I tend to find that more often than not I don't have a choice when it comes to backbox. Or cable length.

 

[Pete999]

Never really hand an issue folding cables back, just ensure they are cut to the correct length, not too short and not too long...
3 x 2.5s in a single 25mm back box takes a little practice but is achievable.

a good impact driver to screw the face plates on also helps...

Shame on you Impact driver to screw a face plate back, stand in the corner for the rest of the day.

 

[MJPD29]

Never had a problem with cracking a socket. When you say 6 do you mean 6 separate cables or 3 twin and earths? I cut enough to fold the cable neatly into the back of the socket. Sometimes it's tight but with careful maneuvering I've always been able to make it fit. Flat plate accesories always cause problems so avoid them wherever possible.


Just to add, I see a lot of people using impact drivers on faceplates now. I have not and will not ever use them. A screwdriver is always enough for me.

 

[snowhead]

If you're having to use force to get the socket lined up at the front then your pushing the cables hard against the back box and risk damaging them whether it's a steel or plastic box.

As others have said, don't cut the cables too long, bend them up to the back of the socket before fitting.
Same applies to switches and any other accessories

I've never cracked a socket fitting it and I'm retired now.

 

[Ray Pooley]

Never had a problem with cracking a socket. When you say 6 do you mean 6 separate cables or 3 twin and earths? I cut enough to fold the cable neatly into the back of the socket. Sometimes it's tight but with careful maneuvering I've always been able to make it fit. Flat plate accesories always cause problems so avoid them wherever possible.


Just to add, I see a lot of people using impact drivers on faceplates now. I have not and will not ever use them. A screwdriver is always enough for me.

3 Twin and earth. The earth lines are usually an easier prospect because they're not formally insulated and are smaller. It's the line and neutral that give the grief. I wouldn't use anything other than hand force. Ilike to have the plate in contact with the box before I offer up the screws.

 

[Ray Pooley]

If you're having to use force to get the socket lined up at the front then your pushing the cables hard against the back box and risk damaging them whether it's a steel or plastic box.

As others have said, don't cut the cables too long, bend them up to the back of the socket before fitting.
Same applies to switches and any other accessories

I've never cracked a socket fitting it and I'm retired now.

I seldom have a choice as to cable length and I am not inclined to shorten them but rather leave them be.
Cables that are too short can be equally troublesome. What did you use to bend the cables? So as to avoid having to put pressure on the plate. I guess is my question.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Bending the cables into the back of a box to give clearance for the spreads is bad enough if the cables where 6" long the spread would cut them shorter. ?

 

[telectrix]

nobody yet mentioned the trusty hammer?

 

[7029 dave]

Tip, dress them in the back of the box before screwing them up.

 

[Flanders]

I seldom have a choice as to cable length and I am not inclined to shorten them but rather leave them be.
Cables that are too short can be equally troublesome. What did you use to bend the cables? So as to avoid having to put pressure on the plate. I guess is my question.

I have never used a tool bend cables, using pliers can damage the insulation, as others have said dress in tha cables neatly with your hands and you should not have a problem.

 

[Ray Pooley]

As I wrote initially I did see a pair of pliars on the net some time ago.
It had one jaw that was basically round and tapered and the other was
U shaped that the tapered on went into. The idea being that you could
put a bend in a cable without stressing out the insulation too much.
Once teh bend is in the cable it woud be easy to push the plate back.
Has anyone seen this?

 

[Ray Pooley]

Tip, dress them in the back of the box before screwing them up.

I got thick fingers. Got to get them in there to hold the cables in the terminals
while tightening them up.

 

[7029 dave]

I got thick fingers. Got to get them in there to hold the cables in the terminals
while tightening them up.

You terminate the conductor's first then dress them back into the box, then screw up.

 

[Mike Johnson]

It is much easier with singles in conduit, you can loose a few inches of cable back up the conduit. ?

 

[James]

I seldom have a choice as to cable length and I am not inclined to shorten them but rather leave them be.
Cables that are too short can be equally troublesome. What did you use to bend the cables? So as to avoid having to put pressure on the plate. I guess is my question.

I always use the mark 1.0 finger and thumb combination for forming small cables like that, anything else is likely to damage them.

 

[Cagethethird]

There is always this thing, designed in and for the American Market but it may be useful.

VOLTCLAW-12 Nonconductive Electrical Wire Pliers : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

Shop VOLTCLAW-12 Nonconductive Electrical Wire Pliers. Free delivery on eligible orders of £20 or more.

www.amazon.co.uk

 

[littlespark]

Something I’ve done since an apprentice (so I was probably told to by the experienced tradesman) is to terminate only the live and neutrals and press the socket back, with the sleeved earths just pulled straight up out between the box and socket.
This gives the L and N a tidy bend. And the earths can be added afterward easily as they’re thinner.

 

[Ray Pooley]

Something I’ve done since an apprentice (so I was probably told to by the experienced tradesman) is to terminate only the live and neutrals and press the socket back, with the sleeved earths just pulled straight up out between the box and socket.
This gives the L and N a tidy bend. And the earths can be added afterward easily as they’re thinner.

A tidy bend. Good description.

 

[littlespark]

A tidy bend. Good description.

Couldn’t think of another way to word it....

 

[brianmoooore]

When fitting a 2G box, always bring the cables in the extreme LH or extreme RH knockout on the top or bottom of the box, never the middle one (or two, depending on make o box). Sweep the prepared tails all the way across to the other side of the box, then back to the middle to connect to the socket.
No sharp bends anywhere, and no trouble screwing the socket back.

 

[Pete999]

When fitting a 2G box, always bring the cables in the extreme LH or extreme RH knockout on the top or bottom of the box, never the middle one (or two, depending on make o box). Sweep the prepared tails all the way across to the other side of the box, then back to the middle to connect to the socket.
No sharp bends anywhere, and no trouble screwing the socket back.

Unless you use an impact driver ?

 

[Deleted account]

I make a little conseteena with the cables so when I push the socket closed they fold in on themselves.

sorry about the spelling of conseteena. Spell check didnt kick in.

 

[Dartlec]

There is always this thing, designed in and for the American Market but it may be useful.

VOLTCLAW-12 Nonconductive Electrical Wire Pliers : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

Shop VOLTCLAW-12 Nonconductive Electrical Wire Pliers. Free delivery on eligible orders of £20 or more.

www.amazon.co.uk

That looks like it might actually be useful in consumer units when trying to snag wires out for testing - though might be too big to be practical - (was actually looking at plastic crochet hooks the other day as a possible option).

For sockets, rubbing the wires vigorously can help them to bend a little easier, especially if it's chilly.

Helps to have a good socket with sensible terminal placements too of course - the LAP (possibly some other brands too?) with L N terminals at the bottom are a right pain. Client/friend recently bought a load and I made him put them all on himself as penance (then inspected and corrected as needed).

 

[Zerax]

I think this is a classic example of experience. The more you do it, the more you'll know the ideal amount of cable to leave, the ideal entry point and the ideal bending.

Practice, practice, practice...

 

[littlespark]

I make a little conseteena with the cables so when I push the socket closed they fold in on themselves.

sorry about the spelling of conseteena. Spell check didnt kick in.

“Concertina”

you can thank me later

 

[Taylortwocities]

Unless you use an impact driver ?

Quite. How are you going to ensure that the screw slots are vertical if you use one of those things?
No pride in their work, some people!

 

[Mike Johnson]

I agree about the impact driver, but screw slots should be horizontal.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Screws should always be at the diagonal & always like this /

(I was joking about the impact driver , they Should only be for consumer units

 

[littlespark]

No no no.... you use the smallest screwdriver you’ve got to screw back plates.... ones that dig into the slot when tight and leave it all chewed up.....
If you’re really good, you can mis-thread the screw, so you really have to force it.... it’ll never come out after that.

???

 

[loz2754]

No no no.... you use the smallest screwdriver you’ve got to screw back plates.... ones that dig into the slot when tight and leave it all chewed up.....
If you’re really good, you can mis-thread the screw, so you really have to force it.... it’ll never come out after that.

???

I personally prefer to use screws that are too long, and force them to bend over at the end when they hit the metal back box....

 

[Dustydazzler]

No No NO, your doing it all wrong...

2 inch #8 wood screw for face plates , that sucker will be nice and tight

 

[Dustydazzler]

Anyone tried one of these 'spinner' screwdrivers for face plate screws ...

they are all the rage in America/Canada

 

[Pete999]

Anyone tried one of these 'spinner' screwdrivers for face plate screws ...

they are all the rage in America/Canada

CAN'T FIT THAT INTO AN IMPACT DRIVER CAN YOU Dustydazzler

 

[nicebutdim]

No No NO, your doing it all wrong...

2 inch #8 wood screw for face plates , that sucker will be nice and tight

Recently removed BT master socket, when painting a wall, and found it was secured with wood screws. They probably come in sealed packaging with 3.5mm screws and this in a house less than 4 years old.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I usually crimp the screw thread with a pair of side cutters, so it ruins the back box thread and makes the face plate easy to remove with a pair of pliers, just give the faceplate a pull.

 

[Dartlec]

No No NO, your doing it all wrong...

2 inch #8 wood screw for face plates , that sucker will be nice and tight

Had to replace a single socket in a tiled kitchen where they'd done this

Lugs both bent and holes way to big for rethreading - No way to replace the back box without removing tiles.

Used one of these things - Fix a broken screw thread in your metal back box. Raise, tilt or lower a socket faceplate - https://backboxsaver.com - which did work, though only after a lot of fiddling and swearing and it was still only being held firm properly by one of the screws....

 

[littlespark]

We’re all laughing at this, but really? You screw back until it’s tight. A quarter turn to get the slot horizontal or vertical is the difference between the plate moving or not.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a customer found a loose socket when using it, and gave the screw a quarter or so turn to tighten it, and calling you all sorts for leaving it loose.

using any mechanical means to screw back a faceplate screw is a recipe for cracking the plastic.

 

[brianmoooore]

A bodge I've used, on a couple of occasions, to deal with a stripped or missing lug, is to drill a 6mm hole in the back of the box, directly behind the lug, then to use a masonry drill to drill out the mortar for a red or yellow plug, then to fit the plate with a very long #6 woodscrew.

 

[Timbo]

Used one of these things - Fix a broken screw thread in your metal back box. Raise, tilt or lower a socket faceplate - https://backboxsaver.com

But what a price! £5.99 for one ?

 

[Dartlec]

But what a price! £5.99 for one ?

Yep - expensive for what they are (presumably because they are made in low volume). And not perfect by any means - could only get one to stay in place in a single socket, though probably would more successful in a double socket where there is more space to get a finger in at one end while the other is connected....

Worth the cost for that job to avoid the hassle of getting a new back box in there though!

 

[Mike Johnson]

They look strangely like the captive screw threads you can pick up for pennies to put onto car parts to hold panels etc, but without insulation? bit of heat shrink would cure that.

 

[nicebutdim]

They look strangely like the captive screw threads you can pick up for pennies to put onto car parts to hold panels etc, but without insulation? bit of heat shrink would cure that.

Those would be perfect for the job if they were available with M3.5 thread.

 

[Dartlec]

They look strangely like the captive screw threads you can pick up for pennies to put onto car parts to hold panels etc, but without insulation? bit of heat shrink would cure that.

They do work, but aren't ideal.

They fit to the existing lug either with the little bit of sleeving, which isn't really strong enough to hold it in place while getting the screw lined up - at least not once your first attempt fails... or tiny sticky pads which don't stick to anything and are useless....

I guess a 3.5mm nut would effectively do the same thing if you could hold it behind the lug with a finger while getting the screw in - with a single box that's hard to do on both sides...

 

[DPG]

They look strangely like the captive screw threads you can pick up for pennies to put onto car parts to hold panels etc, but without insulation? bit of heat shrink would cure that.

Spire clips. Yes, they are pretty much the same but obviously they have a 3.5 thread rather than a hole for a self tapper.

 

[loz2754]

A bodge I've used, on a couple of occasions, to deal with a stripped or missing lug, is to drill a 6mm hole in the back of the box, directly behind the lug, then to use a masonry drill to drill out the mortar for a red or yellow plug, then to fit the plate with a very long #6 woodscrew.

Similar to this idea, but I've found a long 3.5mm socket screw will go nicely into a red plug.