Guidance needed on courses etc

[gazdkw82]

Hi everyone,

You may or may not be aware of my situation so I’ll explainas simple as I can.

I signed up for (what I thought)was a course which would enable me to become an electrician with train4jobs in December.I’ve done 11 assignments and now Iv since found out it’s a level 2 that ivsigned up for. This was not explained as a level 2 I was told it would make mea qualified electrician (which I have since found out is only achievable bydoing level 3)
So I am in a situation where I:

1. Changethe course to a level 3 with train4jobs total cost 7k.
   
2. Dothe current course I’m on (5k cost) and then find somewhere else to do level 3.Is it that simple?
   
3. Leavethe course entirely and go somewhere else (evening college etc) iv rang mylocal college which is Leicester and its 2k for level 2 and 3k for level 3.
   
   Please take intoconsideration I am 33, 2 children ,partner and a mortgage so I cannot leave mycurrent job
   

advice would be appreciated

 

[Midwest]

Firstly, how did you sign up for your course. Is the mistake obvious that it was your fault, or is part of the blame with the training company?

 

[gazdkw82]

Firstly, how did you sign up for your course. Is the mistake obvious that it was your fault, or is part of the blame with the training company?

This is something I am having to push. I was told by the guywho signed me up that I would be an electrician. He also showed me the picturesof recent refurbishment that all nvq students did to become qualified. He alsogave me a card which enables me to have my first attempt at AM2 paid (the ladyon the phone said she knows nothing about such a card and the AM2 is only partof level 3 which confuses the matter even more)

I feel I was misold which I will fight but the situationstill stands

 

[Midwest]

I should take some advice on that, did you have any form of terms & conditions or agreement?

 

[firemanowl]

If you end up changing courses then look at Loughborough College. Not sure how their prices compare but they do both the level 2&3 courses in the evenings.

 

[gazdkw82]

So they have responded and said that it clearly states in all my documents what course I am on. In fairness it does, however my point is, the guy was in my house explaining the course to me. What he explained and what I have are different things. He didn't once tell me there was 2 courses available. That's the point. I'm not sure where I stand tbh


if im stuck then I'll have to just do it. Apparently I can do a brushing unit 2357 when Iv completed 2265 level 2. If I do the bridging unit and am2 then I can get full framework. Apparently

 

[Morley2012]

The only unit you can bridge over from the (2365) level 2 is H&S. You'd still have to complete the level 3 (2365) which then would allow you to bridge every unit you have already covered,but you'd still be required to do the renewables assignments and exam on the (2357) before doing the NVQ and AM2. Hope this helps mate.

 

[gazdkw82]

The only unit you can bridge over from the (2365) level 2 is H&S. You'd still have to complete the level 3 (2365) which then would allow you to bridge every unit you have already covered,but you'd still be required to do the renewables assignments and exam on the (2357) before doing the NVQ and AM2. Hope this helps mate.

Ok so in simple terms what does that mean. would I need to find an employer to complete all the other necessary units to gain full qualification?

Ill try and attach a response I had from my train4jobs. It may help understand what I'll have



http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p64/gazdkw82/5DEE8325-6448-4E55-8505-3B576296C34A.png

 

[Morley2012]

Complete level 2&3 2365, find employment and then enrol on to the 2357 complete one bridging unit ( renewables ) and you'll have all the 2357 technical certificate and then it's just the NVQ and AM2 to complete the course and actually receive your certificates.

Oh and you'll also depending on your age and GCSE result have to do functional skills in maths,eng and ict

 

[gazdkw82]

Here's some more confusing info. Train4jobs said today that my paperwork clearly states I have signed up for level 2 domestic electrician rather than level 3 full scope electrical.

Not or what my paperwork says

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p64/gazdkw82/A0D386EB-86BD-4770-BDAD-D00FCDAAF476.jpg

tjat states full scope electrician

 

[Morley2012]

Looks like your paper work says you're signed up for the 2365 level 2&3 amongst other courses like the 2394/5 and 2382.

 

[gazdkw82]

Looks like your paper work says you're signed up for the 2365 level 2&3 amongst other courses like the 2394/5 and 2382.

Mike so if that is the course in doing what situation would I be in once Iv completed that?

 

[Morley2012]

You'd have the relevant technical certificates to work as a sparky but defined by the JIB you'd still need the NVQ and AM2 to obtain your gold card.

All I can suggest is once you've got the level 2 start looking for work as a mate to gain site experience while doing the level 3.

 

[gazdkw82]

Just to keep you all updated. Train4jobs have not responded to my last email which included the breakdown of my course for which I was given at the time I signed up. It clearly states im doing level 3.

I a contacted citizens advice and I have a meeting with them next Thursday

 

[Midwest]

Just to keep you all updated. Train4jobs have not responded to my last email which included the breakdown of my course for which I was given at the time I signed up. It clearly states im doing level 3.

I a contacted citizens advice and I have a meeting with them next Thursday

See what he CAB say. Good luck.

 

[rolyberkin]

Just to keep you all updated. Train4jobs have not responded to my last email which included the breakdown of my course for which I was given at the time I signed up. It clearly states im doing level 3.

I a contacted citizens advice and I have a meeting with them next Thursday

Hi

I understand your frustration but you will have to separate your dealings with train4jobs from the exam requirements to progress to be a competent electrician.

The bottom line is that completion of the 2365 Level 2 will not put you anywhere near being capable of progressing to and passing the AM2 or being able to complete the 2357 bridging unit (you will not have achieved the guided learning hours or have the necessary exam passes)

If you are not already in the industry or have a current background in electrical work you are probably on the correct course (notwithstanding the miss selling) , I already completed an electrical apprenticeship many moons ago and have had to go back to the beginning to take the level 2 again (I needed the refresher!)

It is all fairly academic whether you are on the Level 2 or Level 3 as there are units which are necessary and core to both courses which have to be completed. If you do not complete the relevant unit at level 2 you will simply have to complete it at Level 3. If you enrol on the 2357 you will simply complete the same academic learning. The units are are just different paths to achieving the same goal. L2 is an introduction for those with little or no experience, L3 is for improvers and 2357 for those working in the industry (Apprentices etc).

This is why there is a bridge from the 2365 series to the 2357 as many of the core units are the same.

As an example the following courses have cost me with a competitively price training company £5595 and are broken down as follows. This is the minimum path to being a full scope electrician (with a lot of on site experience added of course!)

L2 2365 £1600
L3 23657 £1800
2357 Conversion £1200
2382 (15) £400
AM2 £595

Have a look at the scheme booklets to understand where the crossovers are.

http://cdn.cityandguilds.com/Produc...02_L2_Diploma_Qualification_handbook_v1-5.pdf

http://cdn.cityandguilds.com/Produc...03_L3_Diploma_Qualification_handbook_v1-3.pdf

I hope I haven't been the merchant of doom and gloom, http://www.thompsontrainingltd.com/ who I have used are very good and their website has a good breakdown of relevant courses and pathways, perhaps give them a call if you would like some advice, distance learning and training days may suit your personal circumstances.

 

[gazdkw82]

as far as I was aware I could finish this level 2 (2365) and the other few units on level 3, then do the bridging unit for 2357 which will convert 2365 into 2357. Then I can sign up and complete the remaining level 3, take am2 and then that completes the nvq.

if train4jobs change me onto the full scope level 3 (which is what I thought I was on from day 1) then it will be a different route altogether.

is that above correct?

 

[Morley2012]

The 2365 level 2 only has 1 unit you can map over to the 2357 level 3 and that's H&S.

You need to complete the full level 3 2365 to bridge every unit over to the 2357, and then you'll have just 1 unit to complete.

If you do the 2365 level 2 and then enrol onto he 2357 which is level 3, you will have to do every unit of the course as the 2365 level 2 is worthless.

Here's your options

Option 1
2365 level 2&3
2357 (1 bridging unit to complete)
2382 (regs)
NVQ3
Am2


Option 2
2357 (apprenticeship includes the NVQ,Am2,2382 and 2394/5)




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[gazdkw82]

So this isn't true then??

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p64/gazdkw82/5DEE8325-6448-4E55-8505-3B576296C34A.png

 

[Morley2012]

Yes it is true as it states you're doing the level 2 and 3 2365, once complete you can enrol onto the 2357 and complete just 1 unit converting the 2365 to 2357 and then it's just the NVQ and Am2 to obtain your gold card.


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[gazdkw82]

Ok so if what he says is true (to be confirmed once they decide what course I'm actually doing) I would just have to do 1 unit to complete gain 2357? What is this unit? How is it achieved? Is it a new course?

I apologise for asking so many questions. The whole framework and different routes I s difficult to understand unless your used to dealing with them

 

[Morley2012]

If you complete the level 2&3 2365 you can convert it to the 2357 and complete the bridging unit " Renewables unit" and then NVQ3 and am2 to complete the course


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[gazdkw82]

It says I'm doing level 2 and level 3 technical certificate.

What at does that mean?

 

[Morley2012]

Your email basically says you have enrolled on to the following courses.

2365 level 2&3 technical certificates
2382 17th edition wiring regulations
2394/5 Inspection and testing




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[gazdkw82]

Ok and passing that means I can defernately do the bridging unit to gain 2357, then am2 and then nvq?


what does technical certificate actually mean? Is it the whole level 3 or just part of it?

 

[Morley2012]

Once you've done the level 3 (2365) you can then do the bridging unit to complete the technical side of the (2357) you'd then have to do the NVQ and am2 to actually get your certificates.

Technical certificates are basically the college side of the course, like the science etc.
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[gazdkw82]

Ok so is level 3 technical certificate classed as full level 3?

 

[Morley2012]

Yes it would be a full level 3 course. You just need to decide what route you're going to take. Oh and the 2357 you'll need employment in the industry to complete the NVQ side of it and you can't do the Am2 without the nvq3 either.


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[gazdkw82]

Ok so I can use that email as another piece of proof that Iv been told I'm doing level 3 and not level 2.

i will print off and take with me to the meeting with citizens advice

 

[Morley2012]

Out of curiosity how long is the course?
It says you're doing both level 2 and 3.

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[gazdkw82]

I'm to make 39 payments so based on that its 3 years

 

[Morley2012]

Good stuff. Hope you get it all sorted out and 3 years sounds about right is that once a week?


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[gazdkw82]

What's once a week?

 

[Morley2012]

I was asking if you where going to college once a week ?


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[gazdkw82]

The course doesn't work like that. I do home study until I get to a point where I have to go into college. I have to complete 5 full weeks of training (8 if I'm doing the level 3)

 

[rolyberkin]

A whole five or eight weeks!? Please download the city and guilds course program as I have suggested to in my previous post, print it and compare the units, there is a load of work to be done to go from the 2365 L2 to the 2357. I get the impression that you think you Will be able to take one unit after the 2365 L2 and move onto the 2357 NVQ. The work input on these courses is massive if you actually want to understand it. Also honestly ask yourself the question, would you get someone around to your house to undertake electrical work on which the safety of your wife and kids would depend on if their experience in the trade consisted of an eight week course? Have they told you that to complete the NVQ you will need to gain a work placement in the industry? Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear, my advice is get to night school, college or a reputable training provider and do this training properly in a realistic time schedule.

 

[gazdkw82]

No I don't think I can go from level 2 straight onto the bridging unit. As far as I understand (which is limited) I have to do level 3 then the bridging unit and so on. If it's not With my current course providers then I'll have to get level 3 somewhere else.


im not for one minute trying to cut corners here. I'm a mature sensible person and very particular in understanding what I'm doing. I don't want to play with electrics, I want to fully understand electrics and be safe and qualified enough to earn and enjoy a better living. I'll take whatever course I need to in order for me to be safe and professional.

iv already been doing some shadowing at my works (maintenance department at university) and been helping out some fellow electricians. Iv also asked my works if I can hopefully fulfil some units later on with my studies which they have agreed so hopefully that may include parts of the nvq etc.

I'm aware the course I'm doing is unorthodox, however I think my mentality and willingness to learn and understand will pay dividend in the end. I'm just trying to work out and understand the routes and framework

 

[Morley2012]

Are you by any chance working at Leicester University as I know an apprentice their?


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[gazdkw82]

Yes

which apprentice?

 

[Morley2012]

His names Louis, in his 2nd year soon to be starting his 3rd. Where about do you work in he uni I'll ask him if he knows you[emoji106]


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