Discuss Has anyone got an apprentice in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

oscar21

Esteemed
Reaction score
396
If not, would you take one one?
for the second time and against my better wishes we have got one but my business partner always seems to have a family member that "wants to become an electrician". The first one was just hopeless and a wannabee gangster, only lasted a few months. This one started quite promising and has actually done a course at the local college although I'm not quite sure what his qualifications are but my god, his attention span is woeful and always on his phone every chance he gets away with. That woman from C4 summed it up perfectly when she said young people have the attention span of a tiktok video.

Personally I couldn't care less whether the younger generation learn anything or not, I don't see myself as some kind of Yoda who has to pass his knowledge on to future generations, its solely down to them if they want to learn anything or not so why do they have such an awful attitude to work, take today for eg, nearly an hour to 2nd fix a single twin socket (obviously been on his phone most of the time). We pay him £60 a day and to me its just money down the drain, in the time it takes to explain something to him I could have done it myself.
 
Lazy apprentices have always been a thing… even before phones.

They’re only as good as the tradesman that’s teaching them… so if they have a habit of sitting in the van reading a paper, congregating at the wholesalers when there’s no need to go and generally dossing about…. Then the apprentice will pick up those habits….

Ok that’s talking about employees… it sounds like the OP is boss, so his work ethic will be more positive toward company.


You simply can’t expect a year one apprentice to be as quick to do a job compared with a guy with 20 years experience.


Taking on an apprentice is like any other employee… job interview. Tell them what you expect of them. Explain the “rules” concerning phones or other time wasting activity’s. (I’m thinking smokers here)
You could employ a time served guy who is just as lazy.


This could be some kids first job… and they need steered in the right direction… not just bawled at for being slow.
 
Rule 1
phone stays in the van whilst working on site.
you will get a bit of backchat about “what if it’s stolen, will you buy me a new one”

always shut that straight down with NO, it’s your responsibility if you are concerned, leave it at home.

Many sites i work at have a no phones allowed policy and I manage to survive for a few hours whilst working!
 
The country needs apprentices, there is such a skills shortage in engineering. We have 2 50k/y multi skilled jobs up for grabs and most applicants were terrible.

Had an interview yesterday at 1600 for 1 of the 3 short listed, and he didn’t show….
 
Amazes me the amount of fully qualified adults who either can't be arsed to teach or just constantly moan about how ---- their apprentice is lol. With absolutely zero introspection. It's almost like saying "I have had 10 apprentices and they all turned out ---- at their jobs"...Sometimes it's the teacher's fault...infact most times it is. Again im no hero but I must have seen at least ten through their time and not one of them produced crap work nor were slower than average.
BTW not wanting to have an apprentice is fine....Just don't label all of them with the lazy tropes. Some of them will turn out better than any of us...thats just a basic fact of life.
 
Kids from the age of 15 at school should be doing extra classes where they can get their hands dirty, mechanics, building, electrics etc etc . Real stuff not some daft 3 month course where a teacher teaches them only to change a fuse .Give the Kids a chance to see if they are into working in trades etc
 
Lol who brought these devils up in the first place or were they born like it? I have as mentioned above been "lucky" enough to have brought at least ten through their trade to completion. Among them they have all had growing up issues from 1st pint to first girl to preggers girl and drug use/issues. I didn't get them from some special place lol they were a very mixed bunch.
Earn respect, let them earn trust and respect, keep them motivated, show them that the day goes quicker and "can" end quicker if they find stuff to do if they have already been shown how. If they f-up rip it out do it again...If they show attitude then you simply enforce the rules of the work place. I had one lad who almost made it out the door...but he backed down when he saw that his belligerence was going to bugger up 3 years of his own hard work.
Give them stuff to do that will have them desperate to move on to the next more interesting stage....Or just keep moaning that "the youth of today......" I can assure you that every elder thought that of us as far back as we learned to moan lol.
I remember being shown how to wire a 2 way lighting circuit drawn on a black board he had the lamps wired in series.
 
Lol who brought these devils up in the first place or were they born like it? I have as mentioned above been "lucky" enough to have brought at least ten through their trade to completion. Among them they have all had growing up issues from 1st pint to first girl to preggers girl and drug use/issues. I didn't get them from some special place lol they were a very mixed bunch.
Earn respect, let them earn trust and respect, keep them motivated, show them that the day goes quicker and "can" end quicker if they find stuff to do if they have already been shown how. If they f-up rip it out do it again...If they show attitude then you simply enforce the rules of the work place. I had one lad who almost made it out the door...but he backed down when he saw that his belligerence was going to bugger up 3 years of his own hard work.
Give them stuff to do that will have them desperate to move on to the next more interesting stage....Or just keep moaning that "the youth of today......" I can assure you that every elder thought that of us as far back as we learned to moan lol.
I've had a mixed bag over the years, the more recent being the worst. I think it is a combination of poor education, by this I mean that discipline lacks and social attitudes. Many teenagers believe they are more entitled than they really are and when they hit the work life its a shock to the system. Social media doesn't help either, many think they deserve special treatment and that all good things should be handed to them without putting in the time, hard work and sacrifice.

As an example, the best apprentice we ever had came from a poor family where he was actually the main breadwinner and took responsibility taking care of his younger siblings. He learned very quickly that life is tough and the vast majority of us are not privileged, but have and continue to have to work hard to achieve and sometimes even just survive.

Obviously some are just decent kids wanting the chance, others are decent kids at heart but need some guidance or a reality check, some as always are and always will be just useless.

I honestly blame the current social and educational systems that are failing the young by being somewhat too soft, too lenient, too accepting... There is a lack of respect I'm not just talking about the sort we as elders might expect, I'm talking about a lack of respect for taking responsibility, letting go the expectation that they are entitled.

But, we should try and mentor as best we can and try and change their attitude, I'm sure many will come round in the end and they may look back as elders themselves and reflect on their own experiences as we do.
 
Many years ago my business was registered with the government mentor/apprentice scheme. It was an absolute nightmare, the time dealing with the govt scheme red tape, the late and missing payments and the fact the scheme eventually went bankrupt meant the costs to the company snowballed far beyond what was anticipated. .............

..........The apprentices themselves were great, they put in the hours, were keen to learn and all progressed well. I still have contact with a couple of their families and teaching and watching them progress and develop as people as well as artisans was one of the most fulfilling things I've ever done but it was just in trying times unfortunately.
 
Last edited:
I kind of feel like adding.
I 1. Come from a poor --- family. Holidays in anything other than a 1 day bus trip just didn't happen...My dad was a steelworker until 1979.....
2. I also come from a "deprived" area.
So it kind of focussed my mind as to what trade did I want to get into, How was I going to ensure I was in the bunch to get a start.
I have helped electricians since I was 11 yo starting on council house renovations. I got to strip out the old...in return for the scrap. Every saturday @ 7.30am I was there...I can tell you now "we" were never richer than then.
Then at 16 I just wrote a bunch of letters and got 2 offers after tests/interviews. One from Scottish Power actually SSEB in them days. And the 2nd was a local SME upto 50 employees at the time and very varied work.
A great grounding in all the aspects was given to my by my eventual choice (The local contractors).
It wasn't all rosy though and there were some absolute arseholes in that firm, Bullies, People with ego's bigger than Elton John, Some were bitter and didn't like Catholics, others were bitter and didn't like protestants...My surname fits both...so because I NEVER got involved with either side I was often singled out for ----.
Small minds from a small town, But then I had some absolute gems of guys in that firm, Guys who had forgotten more than most know...those types If you meet them on a site my advice is stick to them like glue and try to soak up as much as you can.

I give tjis background to explain why I am fairly "proud" of the apprentices I helped through. I swore I never be "that Ego"...Id never blame the apprentice and id never do anything I wouldn't do to an adult.
I have had my moments. I have had a couple of the lads try to be "cute" or try to just push that wee bit to far. But a quiet chat and the pointing out of the obvious "only one of us can win this debate and it's NOT you" Go and have a think and come back to me in half hour. That sort of thing. I was NEVER going to have an apprentice of mine being labelled for poor workmanship, They soon found out that I was fond of saying "Take it out and redo it the way I said/have shown you"....It soon kicks in. "When your done go tidy up...if everything is tidy then come and see me".
I saw it as my responsibility I suppose thinking that the good guys who took the time to teach me did the same for me. If they had all looked down their noses and thought "He aint my problem" then I probably would never have stuck it out....Even the keenest of us struggle at 6am on a dark freezing winter morning when the van picks you up to go and work in -3 doing galv tube all day.
Im glad I stuck with it though and I feel as if I gave enough back during my on site days when I had those apprentices.
It's quite funny as I have opted to do 3 days a week on average doing my own domestic work as I get older. The other option would have been go teach in college....That terrified me and I also don't think I could put up with the attitude of 10-20 "kids" all at once all trying to gain an inch or a laugh....shudder. So I stuck with this lol.
 
Whilst I'm a DIYer when it comes to electrical, I own a company in the construction industry. I can tell you that you are not alone when it comes to demotivated apprentices. Whilst we're not builders outside of DIY, we do routinely supervise developments and over the last few years, we have repeatedly heard complaints from trades relating to labourers and apprentices and also the difficulty of hiring anyone for the long term.

I don't believe young people are inherently lazy. What I do believe, is that they are so well connected via social media, that the terrible wages in the UK come as a shock because they are able to continually compare UK wages to foreign countries and also, their career choice to that of "influencers" who seem to make a lot of money for nothing. If, as an apprentice, you're aware of an average sort of person who makes 5x what you do for prancing about in front of a camera, thats going to be slightly demotivating.

A very good builder, who we've worked with on smaller projects for decades, recently told me that his company will retire with him, simply because he cannot find anyone competent to take over. His son isn't interested and none of the lads he's set on are anywhere near the caliber of person he wanted to continue the firm that carries his name. We will feel the loss of this company ourselves and it's another nail in the coffin of our local trades, which are becoming like hens teeth.

I myself had an emergency with a CU a year or so ago, which presented as very serious, but turned out not to be. Young lad we found via work contacts came out within an hour. 10pm at night. He was brilliant, just brilliant. Maybe 23, he had charm, logic, knowledge and dilligence. He asked for £100 for 2 hours. I could see the uncertainty in his face when we asked what we owed. We gave him £125 and still felt we'd almost robbed him given the urgent nature of the job. Told him about my line of work and that I'd be in touch, which seemed well received. Texted him with details of an easy but bigger job (mid 4 figures) a couple of weeks later. He never replied, even after a follow up. Unbeknownst to him, he's missed out on enough work since then that he could easily have started his own firm from the proceeds and then some. I just can't understand it. Maybe I'm just terrible to work for?
 
Its the serious lack of attention span that our apprentice has got that baffles me, let alone being a phone addict. I was talking to him about my extension and he asked what rooms it would have, so I said one extra bedroom, one new bathroom and turn the existing bathroom into an en-suite. He said cool how many bedrooms will it be when finished, then said so how many bathrooms will it be, then said will any of them be en-suite.
 
Its the serious lack of attention span that our apprentice has got that baffles me, let alone being a phone addict. I was talking to him about my extension and he asked what rooms it would have, so I said one extra bedroom, one new bathroom and turn the existing bathroom into an en-suite. He said cool how many bedrooms will it be when finished, then said so how many bathrooms will it be, then said will any of them be en-suite.
Sounds par for the course.
 
Few years back doing a lighting upgrade in some offices lad said what's happening I said, go up to the first and get all the fittings from the boxes and start flexing them up all the gear is up there I'll be with you in a bit. Twenty minutes later I go up no sign of him, I eventually find him up on the second floor looking for the gear, the best part he had to walk past all the gear on the first floor. He turned out okay.
 
The other thing thats annoying is, one he just takes your tools without telling you or asking you, so you spend 10 minutes looking high and low for your hammer that you know you just put down near you, and when he is finished with a certain tool he just leaves it on the ground where he was working, obviously expecting mummy to tidy up after him. Crazy.

We are told we need to treat kids like adults to get respect but from where I'm looking it seems we have to treat adults (which is what they are) like kids if we want them to do anything.
 
This is what gets me;

You get a 17/18 y.o school leaver. They get a job, they’re expected to get up in the morning, work an 8 hour shift, get paid at the end of the week and be sober for 100% of the time….

The other ones… the so called intellectuals that have gone to uni are half cut most of the time… get up at 11 most days and have a Wednesday off….

Talk about lazy.




Tongue in cheek guys…. I’ve done both… my kids are going through it now.
 
Not all kids are lazy. I can only go on my own personal experience, was 15 when started out on my journey to become an electrician. It was 44 years ago so yes times have changed no bloody mobile phones thank god.
If you want to learn and are enthusiastic and enjoy the work you do, it will show in your work ethic, performance etc.
The majority of kids dont want to get their hands dirty these days. Mr Blair did not encourage trade skills just all go to university lol.
Now we have lack of skilled tradesman in this country.
 
Not all kids are lazy. I can only go on my own personal experience, was 15 when started out on my journey to become an electrician. It was 44 years ago so yes times have changed no bloody mobile phones thank god.
If you want to learn and are enthusiastic and enjoy the work you do, it will show in your work ethic, performance etc.
The majority of kids dont want to get their hands dirty these days. Mr Blair did not encourage trade skills just all go to university lol.
Now we have lack of skilled tradesman in this country.

I sit in a class of kids and there's real pride in the work turned out by most as well as a surprising keenness about theory and mathematics. The real enthusiasm is about earning more money, which is always a good motivator.
 
The other thing thats annoying is, one he just takes your tools without telling you or asking you, so you spend 10 minutes looking high and low for your hammer that you know you just put down near you, and when he is finished with a certain tool he just leaves it on the ground where he was working, obviously expecting mummy to tidy up after him. Crazy.
I hate that, so much. The rule was always you can borrow a tool but next time you buy your own. borrowing the same tool over and over is not on. No where in my contract does it say I have to provide tools for other employees.
 
I heard a story this morning in the wholesalers that reminded me of this thread, so I thought I’d share.


Basically, one man band like me had taken on an apprentice… great worker, not a phone addict, and was in their second year.
The lad came in one day and asked for a pay rise- out of the blue.
Was told he was getting £3 more an hour than jib rates for his level… and still training.

That turned the lad from a conscientious worker to someone that didn’t give a flying you-know-what.
Turned up late, didn’t turn up at all, just being a bit of a pain.

A matter of days later he had jumped ship and moved to a bigger company that had offered another £2 an hour on top.

The guy is obviously annoyed as he’s taken the initial risk of getting an apprentice… teaching them the basics of both the trade and being in a job in the first place… along with having to reorganise jobs that he expected having two workers on instead of just one.
 
I heard a story this morning in the wholesalers that reminded me of this thread, so I thought I’d share.


Basically, one man band like me had taken on an apprentice… great worker, not a phone addict, and was in their second year.
The lad came in one day and asked for a pay rise- out of the blue.
Was told he was getting £3 more an hour than jib rates for his level… and still training.

That turned the lad from a conscientious worker to someone that didn’t give a flying you-know-what.
Turned up late, didn’t turn up at all, just being a bit of a pain.

A matter of days later he had jumped ship and moved to a bigger company that had offered another £2 an hour on top.

The guy is obviously annoyed as he’s taken the initial risk of getting an apprentice… teaching them the basics of both the trade and being in a job in the first place… along with having to reorganise jobs that he expected having two workers on instead of just one.
That's the risk the guy took, if he was that good and valuable to him he should of payed him. No good crying about it.
 
As I said in the OP, the lad was already getting more than what the JIB says he should get.
Just some other company offered him more.

I know there’s no real reason for him to be loyal to the guy that gave him a job in the first place… but it has left him hesitant of taking on anyone else.
 
I cant seem to make any headway with ours, its not that he is lazy or has attitude in any way, its just that he hasn't got a practical bone in his body, he would be much better suited to sitting in an office all day, probably on a bean bag moderating twitter posts or something like that.

Take the other day, I got him to measure a couple of downlights out as per the plan I'd drawn. The light was 800mm from the wall, all nice and simple, except it was in a loft conversion so the ceiling was sloping before it went horizontal. Imagine a vertical wall, then a 45 deg sloping ceiling then the flat ceiling.

So the way he measured it was held the tape measure in the corner, followed the slope and then across the ceiling, all in one go so the tape measure was bent to the shape of the ceiling. Obviously the light ended up too close to the wall and the wires weren't anywhere to be seen. Now I know I didn't show him specifically how to measure it out but I just find it so perplexing that young people, not just him but all of them have absolutely zero experience in anything even slightly hands on. all the experienced people I work with were all on building sites up scaffolding from about 12 years old with their dads, or other friends all had mopeds or crossers in bits when they were kids, they built go carts and tree houses, today's youngsters can't even boil and egg. They really aren't suited to manual labour at all. The way I see it is they all need to make sure they get mega well paid jobs to afford the few tradesmen left that they will inevitably need in the future.
 
Useless apprentices are down to people not taught the practical skills at school like they used to, and it’s down to health and safety, and insurance rates.

Don’t get me wrong…. I’ve always advocated for safety. As soon as an accident happens, however unlikely, safeguards should be put in place so it can’t happen again.

However, it means kids nowadays don’t get to use sharp objects at school. Cooking, sewing, woodwork… anything that can hurt if not used properly…. And it’s all for fear of the school being sued by a parent.

Then we expect a 17 year old apprentice to know the difference between the sharp end of a screwdriver and the other.


I wonder when sports will catch up?
Ban darts because of the sharp bit… ban snooker because someone choked on a chalk….
And just wait until some footballer loses a lucrative skincare contract just because of a broken nose.
 
Times change. There are still kids out there doing the stuff you describe, but probably many fewer than in the past.

I wouldn't assume anything about an apprentice I was charged with training and would explain everything to ensue they learn the trade in a manner I deem acceptable. Some will get most things first time and others will require repetition before they stick.

I'd much rather an apprentice coming as a blank slate, than with the assumption they already know everything as the later will cost considerable amounts of wasted time, energy and money.

Also try not to be that person you hated when learning the ropes. I wouldn't suggest treating them with kid gloves, but days go better when there's no resentment from either side.
 
That may well be true, but I'm willing to take time out of my day to train him in electrics, I don't see why I should have to potty train him as well. I agree about the school bit, when I was at secondary school in the 80's we had a woodwork class with sharp chisels, razor sharp planers, big drill bits etc etc. As for the metal work class we had big old lathes, a milling machine, powered hacksaws, open brazing hearths (the teacher blew himself up one day) even an oxy-acetylene set up which could have easily taken out half the school if it was mistreated.

In fact I remember one day the acetylene torch started burning and the lad using it dropped the torch and ran for his life down the corridor as we'd all been briefed about how dangerous it was. Luckily the set up had flash-back arrestors on it so it all went out of its own accord but when the lad nervously came back into the classroom about 10 minutes later the teacher said "look lad, it wouldn't have mattered how fast you could run, it would still have got you". Happy times and you learned so much more back then.
 
Times change. There are still kids out there doing the stuff you describe, but probably many fewer than in the past.

I wouldn't assume anything about an apprentice I was charged with training and would explain everything to ensue they learn the trade in a manner I deem acceptable. Some will get most things first time and others will require repetition before they stick.

I'd much rather an apprentice coming as a blank slate, than with the assumption they already know everything as the later will cost considerable amounts of wasted time, energy and money.

Also try not to be that person you hated when learning the ropes. I wouldn't suggest treating them with kid gloves, but days go better when there's no resentment from either side.
The problem is as well as teach him, I've still got a job to do, I still need to install lights and sockets as the bills still need paying, if I was a teacher in a school it would be easy as there wouldn't be anything else to do but when I have to keep getting up and down a scaffold to show him how to get a piece of conduit straight it can be frustrating to say the least.
 
How long has he been with you?
I'm not entirely sure, he is a relative of my partner so he actually did a bit with us a while ago even before he did his college course, he started with us for a couple of days officially as he needed employment to do the course which was for a year or more and he has just turned 19 and he finished the course when he was 18, so full time about a year and even longer on and off. Its not like I just get him to clear the rubbish up I actually try and explain things to him. I just don't think he is suited to physical type work, not everyone is.

Edit: with the risk of sounding like an old fart the thing that really got my goat today was this - The job we are on is having a grid ceiling fitted but only 90% of our conduit work was finished. The perimeter wooden batten for the ceiling was being installed and they way they did it was to cut it either side of our conduit so they can run the metal grid carrier over the top of the conduit.

When we came to fit the last couple of pieces of conduit I told our apprentice to get the multi tool and cut a 20mm slot out of the wood where the conduit was going up, 10 minutes later I heard the sound of a hammer and chisel. I walked in and he was hitting a chisel (not even a wood chisel but a cold chisel) against the batten damaging the newly painted plasterwork next to it. I said WTF and he replied "there's still a bit of wood left in the slot, even though all he needed to do was run the multi tool through it again until it cut all the way through it.

I'm not sure what went on in his mind, it was almost as though he was totally normal and then got possesed by some zombie gene that turned him into Terry F**kwit.
 
Last edited:

Reply to Has anyone got an apprentice in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Similar Threads

My customer wants to be able to switch his heat pump (3.5kW) for his swimming pool on and off remotely, he also wants to be able to set times for...
Replies
8
Views
684
Hi all, Been a while since I have been on here. I have been on an apprenticeship the last 3 years training in the BMS world. Taking that into...
Replies
7
Views
388
I am asking on behalf of a friend who has an outbuilding that he uses as an art studio, the building is fully insulated and is currently heated by...
Replies
1
Views
625
Because none of us are beyond schoolboy errors.......... Doing some events kit testing over the weekend, some larger metal stand distro panels...
Replies
7
Views
1K
I was working alongside the plumber yesterday. I had to drill some 32mm holes through joists. I always use my Makita 481 high torque drill will a...
Replies
29
Views
2K

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

YOUR Unread Posts

This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by untold.media Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock