Help with Wago instead of ceiling rose method

[dgrs]

Dear All,

This is my first post in the forums - so a little background first. I have basically no practical electrical experience but I have almost completed the 'Domestic Electrical Installers' course through OLCI (I have my Part P). I know a lot of you fully qualified guys don't like this 'domestic installer' qualification, and with hindsight I do partly wish I'd done the full thing - my understanding feels sketchy! I do have two friends, who are practising electricians and have some experience lined up starting very soon.

My question relates to replacing a ceiling rose with wago connectors. The reason for this is a friend has asked me to put up some chandeliers. The canopy of the chandelier, which attaches to the ceiling, is quite small and would be difficult to simply attach it 'around' the existing ceiling rose. So I thought using levered wago connectors could be an elegant solution. But is it ok for wago connectors to simply sit in the canopy of the chandelier or would the connectors need to go into a wago box (like with downlights where you can just pop them through the downlight holes)? I don't think the hole in the ceiling where the wires come through is big enough to pop a wago box through.

On a practical level, do any of you have any advice - for eg, do I need to be careful that the wires are long enough to fit into the connectors and then the connectors into the box or is this likely to not be an issue?

If there are some who think wago connectors are not the way forward may I ask how you would approach this job? Simply using connector blocks and have them sit in the canopy?

Many thanks in advance,

Dave

 

[micknew]

Sorry mate difficult to describe the step by step procedure and methods used to install a chandelier safely. You need to do it under supervision in my opinion.

 

[dgrs]

Well, the chandeliers were up before but a spark removed them (my friends moved out for a while and are now moving back in). The spark just put in a standard ceiling rose with pendants. The wiring couldn't be more simple and the chandeliers weigh very little.

I realised it would be a two man job: one to hold the chandelier whilst I'd do the connections (using wago super fast) and then attach the chandelier to the fixing bracket.

Thanks for your response and warning but I hope someone else has some advice - don't want to give up before doing the first job which I thought would be very small...

Dave

 

[rich.250]

If the connectors are effectively in an enclosure formed by the fitting and the plasterboard. Then that will be fine, if they go through the ceiling then they will need to be in some form of enclosure.
Hope this helps

 

[Mark_Burgess]

Dear All,

This is my first post in the forums - so a little background first. I have basically no practical electrical experience but I have almost completed the 'Domestic Electrical Installers' course through OLCI (I have my Part P). I know a lot of you fully qualified guys don't like this 'domestic installer' qualification, and with hindsight I do partly wish I'd done the full thing - my understanding feels sketchy! I do have two friends, who are practising electricians and have some experience lined up starting very soon.

My question relates to replacing a ceiling rose with wago connectors. The reason for this is a friend has asked me to put up some chandeliers. The canopy of the chandelier, which attaches to the ceiling, is quite small and would be difficult to simply attach it 'around' the existing ceiling rose. So I thought using levered wago connectors could be an elegant solution. But is it ok for wago connectors to simply sit in the canopy of the chandelier or would the connectors need to go into a wago box (like with downlights where you can just pop them through the downlight holes)? I don't think the hole in the ceiling where the wires come through is big enough to pop a wago box through.

On a practical level, do any of you have any advice - for eg, do I need to be careful that the wires are long enough to fit into the connectors and then the connectors into the box or is this likely to not be an issue?

If there are some who think wago connectors are not the way forward may I ask how you would approach this job? Simply using connector blocks and have them sit in the canopy?

Many thanks in advance,

Dave

I do agree with micknew, I'd be more concerned how well the chandelier is affixed to the ceiling.

You have been mislead about your "partp" or so you call it.
As you should know, Part P is a building regulation and there is no "part p" qualification, the only recognisable "skill set" attached to part P of the building regs is joining a competent persons scheme with say nic, napit or elecsa. For a large sum of money they will take your money and with a days assessment tell you that you are "part P qualified".

 

[dgrs]

So just to be clear, the ceiling and canopy of the chandelier qualify as an enclosure and therefore the wago connectors or connector blocks can sit inside the canopy?

Many thanks,

Dave

 

[rich.250]

Was not even things as simple as this covered in you DI course??
Hmmmmmmmm

 

[dgrs]

I understand this but there is an exam to sit... There are other exams and assessments as part of the course. I just mentioned this to show that I have some knowledge, but I am very aware that my practical knowledge is very poor indeed. None of the qualifications which one gets mean anything without an assessment from from of the regulatory bodies and this wasn't explained to me by the 'careers advisor' (salesman).

 

[micknew]

Was not even things as simple as this covered in you DI course??
Hmmmmmmmm

That's a mystery to me too, a DIYer?

 

[telectrix]

So just to be clear, the ceiling and canopy of the chandelier qualify as an enclosure and therefore the wago connectors or connector blocks can sit inside the canopy?

Many thanks,

Dave

yes, you can fit wagos or even choc blocks in the canopy. preferably wagos, 1. they are in a suitable enclosure.2. they are accesssible for maintenance.

 

[dgrs]

No, the course just wired in ceiling roses. We covered 2 way switching with an intermediate switch. The job I'm asking about is far simpler in terms of wiring but I posted a practical question...

My point of asking a question on here is I am lacking practical experience and thought people could help. I am experienced enough (just with DIY) to know that few things, unless you install the whole thing yourself from scratch, fit an exact scenario. I was really hoping that my question wouldn't just result in criticism of the course of did or of the lack of my own practical experience which I made very clear from the outset...

Oh well.

 

[rich.250]

I understand this but there is an exam to sit... There are other exams and assessments as part of the course. I just mentioned this to show that I have some knowledge, but I am very aware that my practical knowledge is very poor indeed. None of the qualifications which one gets mean anything without an assessment from from of the regulatory bodies and this wasn't explained to me by the 'careers advisor' (salesman).

As I said, and telectrix,it is fine to install them.

 

[dgrs]

Thanks very much

 

[telectrix]

@dgrs. you will get good advice, criticism and witticism on this forum. hopefully you can take a bit of stick along with the plain simple advice. you have been straightforward as regards your capabilities and deserve credit for not trying to blag it. good luck with the rest of your course and more importantly, practical experience with it.

 

[mayfair]

Well done Tel I return every now and again to see how things are going and nothing changes much , But see people like you are still prepared to help rather than have a go at people wanting advice.....Hope you and the Mrs are well keep it up.

yes, you can fit wagos or even choc blocks in the canopy. preferably wagos, 1. they are in a suitable enclosure.2. they are accesssible for maintenance.

 

[mayfair]

Yes rocket science puting up Chandeliers. Still idiiots about i see.

Sorry mate difficult to describe the step by step procedure and methods used to install a chandelier safely. You need to do it under supervision in my opinion.

 

[micknew]

Yes rocket science puting up Chandeliers. Still idiiots about i see.

As your post proves Sir.

 

[telectrix]

Well done Tel I return every now and again to see how things are going and nothing changes much , But see people like you are still prepared to help rather than have a go at people wanting advice.....Hope you and the Mrs are well keep it up.

mayfair, thought you'd emigrated or summat. me & mrs doing fine. be even better with a bit of work coming in. it's pants at the mo.

 

[nickblake]

what i use in the wago line especiall for light fitting like you have is the push in one side and the clamp the other they are great for this job

 

[dgrs]

Thanks nickblake, I was going to use the lever type as these are the ones I've 'played around' with. I will have a look at the other wago products. I think they're totally fantastic..

Thanks everyone for the help.

 

[telectrix]

the push in ones are OK for solid cable. lever type generally used if flex is involved. if you are connecting flex to the fitting, use the lever ones.

 

[nickblake]

i always use push fits for the loops and the series 224 for the flexible leads supplied with the light fitting

 

[Brad]

Unfortunately you can't buy experience and part p doesn't help you get that. If you want to do this get qualified IMO if in doubt get a spark in who can do it and job done.

 

[robsparky1975]

No, the course just wired in ceiling roses. We covered 2 way switching with an intermediate switch. The job I'm asking about is far simpler in terms of wiring but I posted a practical question...

My point of asking a question on here is I am lacking practical experience and thought people could help. I am experienced enough (just with DIY) to know that few things, unless you install the whole thing yourself from scratch, fit an exact scenario. I was really hoping that my question wouldn't just result in criticism of the course of did or of the lack of my own practical experience which I made very clear from the outset...

Oh well.

I think a lot of the criticism is not aimed at yourself but the providers of these short courses,who take way too much money off people(im not sure how much you had to pay),what they should be doing is running through real world scenarios just like what you are asking,and at least you knew the sort of thing that was required,so your on the right path,and with working alongside qualified and experienced electricians you gain get the hands on skills

 

[Hiddo]

I'll tell you what I do if it helps. I fix the bracket to the ceiling ensuring it is secure and then I use a cable tie to hold the fitting to the bracket temporarily whilst I terminate the cables into the wago's etc. remove the cable tie and secure the fitting to the bracket. It works for me every time. Good luck

 

[telectrix]

good tip. use that myself on occasion. if no tiesto hand, a bit of cable stripped from the t/e does the trick.

 

[jase]

Was not even things as simple as this covered in you DI course??
Hmmmmmmmm

I went to college for 2 evenings a week for 3 years, we did practical on tuesdays and theory on thursdays, in all those 3 years we never even looked at a red rawl plug let alone drilled a 5.5mm hole into a bit of masonary and used red rawl plugs with an 1/2" 8 and mounted anything onto a wall, luckily for me i was working fulltime as a trainee sparks, but i felt sorry for the guys who worked in office environments and had absolutley no experience of even handling a drill driver let alone using one, they were great at the theory but when they were in the workshop some of them couldnt even use a hammer!! college dont teach you everything

 

[mickys86]

I'll tell you what I do if it helps. I fix the bracket to the ceiling ensuring it is secure and then I use a cable tie to hold the fitting to the bracket temporarily whilst I terminate the cables into the wago's etc. remove the cable tie and secure the fitting to the bracket. It works for me every time. Good luck

And there was me, worried that I hadn't learnt anything today. Ten minutes to go and I read this. Thanks for the tip!! Unbelievably simple

 

[mickys86]

I went to college for 2 evenings a week for 3 years, we did practical on tuesdays and theory on thursdays, in all those 3 years we never even looked at a red rawl plug let alone drilled a 5.5mm hole into a bit of masonary and used red rawl plugs with an 1/2" 8 and mounted anything onto a wall, luckily for me i was working fulltime as a trainee sparks, but i felt sorry for the guys who worked in office environments and had absolutley no experience of even handling a drill driver let alone using one, they were great at the theory but when they were in the workshop some of them couldnt even use a hammer!! college dont teach you everything

I always said I learnt more on site than I did in the workshop bit of a no brainer really

 

[Alana Fox]

Hi dgrs

Alana here from OLCI Construction Training.

I can see that you have a few questions about Part P. I would like to clarify this for you and any other questions that you may have.

Please give us a call on 0800 316 8100. Alternatively you can email me on [email protected] with a phone number and a suitable time to call you back.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Best wishes,

Alana Fox

 

[Kiers1970]

weeps.

 

[dgrs]

Weeps at what?