How can I ascertain if I am paying for someone else's electricity? Help!

[Danielle]

My electricity bills are 1.5-2.5k per month for a 5 bedroom house. My heating was running off ? electric so while this figure is extremely high it (kind of) made sense, as the house is large. I had an electrician calculate the space and electric consumption. As it was so high, I decided to go down the route of Air Source, and have had 4 Mitsubishi air source heat pumps installed to make my electric more affordable... having been told this would take them to half or a third. But my first bill have come in and it is £2300, for ONE month!!. I wonder if I am paying for the electricity for the farm shop next door or something like this. My provider, utility warehouse will only check that my meter is working and the wires inside my house.
Does anyone know how or who can I ask to check that the wires going into my house are only providing electricity for my property. Utility warehouse refuse to do this. is there ANY service I can pay for to prove what is going on. Even if just for me! I am in a lot of financial difficulty now! Thanks

 

[Zerax]

Just turn everything off... and see if the meter is still ticking over... or have I missed something in the question ?

 

[Zerax]

I assume you know that electric heating is the most expensive form of heating ? And that you also know that the first thing you do before installing air source heat pumps is maximise the thermal insulation everywhere ?

 

[Danielle]

let

I assume you know that electric heating is the most expensive form of heating ? And that you also know that the first thing you do before installing air source heat pumps is maximise the thermal insulation everywhere ?

thanks, the house is pretty new (2016 build) and thermally insulated to current environmental building standards.

 

[Electrics]

Turn off power at your consumer unit for an hour, at that level of usage you should see it go up quite a bit, then you'll know.

Although this could well be a problem with your meter - word of warning, my old man had the same thing happen to him - £3k a month for a 4 bed house with no electric heating and gas hob - he went to court to contest what the board themselves called 'industrial usage impossible in such a domestic dwelling' and the court sided with the energy company who claimed he owed the money. He refused to pay so they came in and put a key meter on that he's now having to put like 50 quid on to get 30 quid of electric out of. His electric bill is now, even with the added debt coming off his key every time he tops up, around £220 a month.

Although in your case what i'm assuming is a pretty large 5 bed house running all electric heating is going to cost an absolute bomb. What's your electric bill like in the summer months?

 

[Danielle]

Turn off power at your consumer unit for an hour, at that level of usage you should see it go up quite a bit, then you'll know.

Although this could well be a problem with your meter - word of warning, my old man had the same thing happen to him - £3k a month for a 4 bed house with no electric heating and gas hob - he went to court to contest what the board themselves called 'industrial usage impossible in such a domestic dwelling' and the court sided with the energy company who claimed he owed the money. He refused to pay so they came in and put a key meter on that he's now having to put like 50 quid on to get 30 quid of electric out of. His electric bill is now, even with the added debt coming off his key every time he tops up, around £220 a month.

Although in your case what i'm assuming is a pretty large 5 bed house running all electric heating is going to cost an absolute bomb. What's your electric bill like in the summer months?

thanks for your advice.. the electricity company really do not want to help. I'm so sorry for your Dad's situation and i really empathise with him.
re my place, the house is big, but not huge. summer bills 1600, winter 2.5k. there is no way i can be using this much electric, esp now I have air source heat pumps, providing hot water (underfloor heating and hot water). I think i need a forensic electrician or some specialist to look at what happens with the wires outside and inside my property... but i don't know what the name for this person is! also is there a electricity consumer ombudsman? i need help but don't know what to look for...

 

[telectrix]

you need to isolate your Consumer Unit ( turn off main switch ), note meter reading. give it a couple of hours and see if the meter reading has changed. if it has, then something else is drawing from your meter. any weird horticultural smells from next door? weeeeed?

 

[DPG]

I would look into hiring a power monitor and leave it connected for a few days/weeks. See what usage it shows and compare it to the kwh/units on your electric bill.

 

[Electrics]

thanks for your advice.. the electricity company really do not want to help. I'm so sorry for your Dad's situation and i really empathise with him.
re my place, the house is big, but not huge. summer bills 1600, winter 2.5k. there is no way i can be using this much electric, esp now I have air source heat pumps, providing hot water (underfloor heating and hot water). I think i need a forensic electrician or some specialist to look at what happens with the wires outside and inside my property... but i don't know what the name for this person is! also is there a electricity consumer ombudsman? i need help but don't know what to look for...

Not sure except for monitoring it. That said, 1600 quid a month is a gigantic, enormous electricity bill. My last house we paid 110 euro a month and we had electric hot water, electric hob and electric oven and my wife cooks from scratch at least 3 times a day if she doesn't do any bread or desserts. Our house before that (before we had kids) was 35 quid a month. Even my old man's house, which never sleeps, stuff running constantly, his bills are only just over 10% of yours and his house is 135sqm. I've known people with small grows on that use less than you.

You've either got a problem with someone tapping off you, a problem with the meter (which i would demand be changed) or you use way too much electricity.

 

[Zerax]

I have one of these connected at home... allows me to see exactly what I'm using... Very easy to use.

Elite Classic - Efergy

The Efergy Elite Classic Wireless Energy Monitor is the world's best selling in-home energy display (with over 500,000 units sold).

efergy.com

 

[OnlQQker]

Like @telectrix says above...

Turn your main switch off when the farm shop next door is open.

If it plunges in to darkness and utility vans start turning up you'll know something is wrong!

 

[Midwest]

You have the right to have your meter tested, and if it has been tested by your supplier, you can have it independently tested.

I think my energy meter is faulty - Which? Consumer Rights

What exactly has your supplier done, to investigate your complaint?

 

[pc1966]

Turning off you supply for an hour or so would show if the meter stops incrementing, which probably rules out a hidden feed from before your CU (consumer unit = fuse box).

However, you might have some circuit fed from after your CU you don't know about that is draining a lot of power. If you get any of those sort of power monitors meters, for example (just random search, not a specific recommendation):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001Q1G4WK/

It shows you the current demand in more or less real-time, then what you can do is switch back on each of your breakers and see if any one circuit causes a big and unexplained increase. For example, if it is your heater firing up then you expect a big load, so turn off appliances as well and see if anything does not add up.

Such a monitor is not as accurate as a utility meter is supposed to be, but you are not really looking at a few percent error here!

Final question, do you have a 3-phase supply or single phase? If that means nothing the post a photo of your incoming supply & meter & CU here (just make sure no obvious personal identification is visible).

 

[Deleted account]

How many people are in the house?
do you have gas?
how many electric showers are there?
how many electric radiators do you have?

your bills do seem very big but it depends on your usage.

 

[freddo]

Turning off you supply for an hour or so would show if the meter stops incrementing, which probably rules out a hidden feed from before your CU (consumer unit = fuse box).

As above, that shows no change in meter reading then I would restore power and switch all the lights and equipment off and unplug all appliances. Note the meter reading, go away for a couple hours and check it again. If it has gone up there is something still connected or some other issue.

4 ASHPs is quite a load, 4 compressors running, 4 lots of electric backup heaters if the AS can't absorb enough heat from the air. The backup elements can run an awful lot if the radiator circulating water is set to a temperature as high as would be expected from a gas/oil boiler. Though modern AS units are capable of fairly high temperatures on their own now, compared to older models.

 

[Strima]

Can you post a picture of your consumer unit, meter and DNO supply cables?

 

[Electrics]

How many people are in the house?
do you have gas?
how many electric showers are there?
how many electric radiators do you have?

your bills do seem very big but it depends on your usage.

'very big' is an understatement. Average UK bill is like 60 quid a month.

 

[pc1966]

'very big' is an understatement. Average UK bill is like 60 quid a month.

Yes, if you assume £0.15 per kWh and 30 days for the £2,300 bill that is an average of around 21kW.

While it is possible, it is hard to see that coming off a 80A single phase supply giving it can't be constant.

Weed farms excluded....

 

[pc1966]

Just looked it up, UK average is £0.166 per kWh

Average Cost of Electricity per kWh in the UK (2024)

According to OFGEM the average cost of electricity is now 28.6p/kWh for January to March 2024 for a customer with typical usage paying by direct debit on a default tariff. Read how rates change by area, from London to Merseyside.

www.nimblefins.co.uk

Result is average 19.2kW which is still massive.

 

[Deleted account]

'very big' is an understatement. Average UK bill is like 60 quid a month.

Ah Didn’t read properly. Thought that was a year. Wow 2k a month. Definately a problem

 

[Timbo]

I have gas heating, but I don't spend that in a year.
Quite frankly, I couldn't afford to spend that much a month!

 

[7029 dave]

All good advise, I want to concentrate on the supply meter, I would insist that the energy supplier do an accuracy test on the meter,2 ways load bank test or fit a check meter in series with your supply meter the latter is the only option if you have 3phase meter.

 

[freddo]

I clamped 1 phase of a 100A supply today. Looking good.

 

[7029 dave]

All good advise, I want to concentrate on the supply meter, I would insist that the energy supplier do an accuracy test on the meter,2 ways load bank test or fit a check meter in series with your supply meter the latter is the only option if you have 3phase meter.

Check meters can be fitted to single phase meters too, just 3phase meters cant be load bank tested didnt explain that very well.

 

[pc1966]

That is either a dodgy meter or a supply going to roast its terminals...

 

[James]

I have in the past used energy monitors to get an idea of how much power each device in a factory is using.
you could buy a couple of these and put them on each of your heating units.
they are the most likley high usage devices you have.
if they account for 90% of the usage then i am afraid you will have to turn the heating down.
if they are less than 50% of your usage then i suspect you have a problem with either billing meter or a leech drawing your electricity for there own use.

Eco-Eye Smart PC - Eco-eye electricity monitors (eco-eye.com)

there may well be a member who can install them on different circuits for you at different times if you are not confident.

 

[MJPD29]

First thing to do is turn the power off and see if the meter is still counting. If its not, it's your house

 

[Electrics]

Is there a chance (slim, probably) that someone could be stealing from load side and so turning it off at our CU might also turn off the offending circuit and thereby make it look like nothing is being stolen? In such a case would it be worth physically turning everything drawing load in the house off to see if the live circuits are still drawing power? After all if OP can see her tails going into the meter then the 'turn off the CU' suggested by myself and others isn't going to yield any results.

 

[littlespark]

I think we need a photograph of the consumer unit and associated wiring before we can suggest anything else. Already been asked for

 

[Danielle]

I have one of these connected at home... allows me to see exactly what I'm using... Very easy to use.

Elite Classic - Efergy

The Efergy Elite Classic Wireless Energy Monitor is the world's best selling in-home energy display (with over 500,000 units sold).

efergy.com

Thanks so much i will try that!

 

[Danielle]

I think we need a photograph of the consumer unit and associated wiring before we can suggest anything else. Already been asked for

 

[Danielle]

thanks so much for your advice, these are pictures of the electric meters. they are both 3 phase

 

[Danielle]

I think we need a photograph of the consumer unit and associated wiring before we can suggest anything else. Already been asked for

sorry if you have received these photos twice, i am not sure if i just sent them on the thread to you! thanks you for your advice

 

[Strima]

So you have two three phase supplies?

TBH in think you need to get a sparky in to trace out a lot of that cabling and check your loads for phase balancing etc. Not unusual for the supplier to load bills for unbalance three phase supplies.

 

[pc1966]

Do you really have two 3-phase electric supplies to the property? Was it ever divided and owned separately?

That could deliver 80kW+ so that sort of bill is feasible from a supply point of view, but still a massive power use.

 

[Deleted account]

What sort of loading do you have.

electric showers
ovens hobs
kitchens
swimingpools
etc......

 

[Strima]

Hang on, you said the property is a new build (2016) yet one fo those supplies is a lot older than that.

Can you post pictures of all your distribution boards etc and possible a layout of your building and neighbouring properties?

 

[stevethesparks]

I can see more of these sort of posts when all these proposed electric boilers kick in
As already advised, get an electrician in to give you a detailed report.

 

[Zerax]

As Jack Regan once said... "the hairs on my wooden leg, tell me that something is up"

Why would a 5 bed house have 2 x 3Phase supplies ?? Why would a house that was apparently built in 2016 have an installation that clearly pre-dates that ?? Why would a large 5 bed house have been built with only electric heating ?? Where do those CT clamps go to ??

Far more information is needed...

 

[Electrics]

Deffo can't have been built from scratch in 2016 since there appears to be old colour wiring involved in the utility cabling.

Was this a big renovation and/or partial demolition/rebuild job, and the utility area was existing?

At this point there is too much guessing involved and you need to get an electrician in to trace stuff and figure out what's going on. Without more pics and layout of the house/adjoining buildings etc it's just too difficult to give an accurate answer here.

Get a spark in to see what's going on and give any report he gives you to your electricity supplier to prove that they need to do a thorough investigation.

How are you billed? Are there two, one with two meters' numbers added together, just one? What do the numbers on the bill say - do they match up with one of the meters? Have your bills dropped since lockdown ie with places being shut?

I don't see why a three phase unit was put into a domestic dwelling unless you have tonnes of outbuildings or a business next door was being run off it. I have no experience in the UK but on the continent when i've seen a building+workshop set up it was either three phase or one single phase and one three phase supply. Two three phase supplies is just plain weird unless someone from Sweden has done it.

 

[7029 dave]

It's clearly different from the opening post, its very difficult to comment when being drip fed information.

 

[littlespark]

I bet no one was expecting that!

 

[Timbo]

Looks like the garage head only has Red phase energised?
What do the current monitors on the utility room tails connect to?

 

[David Prosser]

The garage meter display shows all three phases energised.

 

[freddo]

Do you really have two 3-phase electric supplies to the property?

They seem to have 100A fuses fitted too, which suggests heavy loading is expected. At the start of the thread I pictured a single phase supply feeding one consumer unit! Tracing where the electricity is being used might take some time and require a bit of testing by an electrician. The standing charge for having 2 3phase supplies will be a fair bit too.

 

[Timbo]

The garage meter display shows all three phases energised.

I was just looking at the fuse carriers, funny only the one has a label stating fuse size fitted? And its a newer one, too.

 

[pc1966]

I was just looking at the fuse carriers, funny only the one has a label stating fuse size fitted?

The older carries also say 100A, but not clear if that is what is fitted or the carrier limit.

It does look as if things have been changed over the years, maybe even it was overloaded and damage something leading to the "new" holder in some way (and 2nd supply?).

As many others are saying, it needs someone on-site to look at the whole picture.

 

[OnlQQker]

I'm now thinking it is possible you are supplying the farm shop next door with that set up.
Possibly the whole farm as well with those sort of bills!

 

[7029 dave]

I'm now thinking it is possible you are supplying the farm shop next door with that set up.
Possibly the whole farm as well with those sort of bills!

Simple turn off all switch gear in house and garage, they will soon come running if that's the case.

 

[Danielle]

So you have two three phase supplies?

TBH in think you need to get a sparky in to trace out a lot of that cabling and check your loads for phase balancing etc. Not unusual for the supplier to load bills for unbalance three phase supplies.

thank you i really appreciate this, its stuff like this i wouldn't even have known to ask!