“HRRB” regs and EICR’s

[mainline]

It’s a pass or no pass situation ! Like a cars MOT ...any legal jargon can be used .Buts its either passed or failed ! I thought about the C3 option but then again why even a C3 ? Both requirements for them to be used has not been proven correct as I have proven them incorrect . Building height and amount of floors . Having to tell someone how a building is measured Is weird. They thought it was from top of building down etc . Despite showing them the legal , they still say “it’s over 18m “ . So ,so far , no one has said they are REQUIRED within this thread .

A Mot is not simply a pass or fail advisories being the equivalent of c3s.

 

[Bob Geldoff1234]

From post 11.

The requirements of BS 7671 are not retrospective, so, existing installations do not require upgrading.

So they don't need to be fitted in your case.

 

[mainline]

From post 11.

The requirements of BS 7671 are not retrospective, so, existing installations do not require upgrading.

So they don't need to be fitted in your case.

It is where alterations to the circuits have been done.

 

[LukeD]

A Mot is not simply a pass or fail advisories being the equivalent of c3s.

Yes C3 ,s would be advisories . But ask 1000 people what a MOT test means in regards to been able to continue to use the car . Its failed or passed . That simple . A EICR is the same ...unless its good , you cannot rent out if you are wanting to let etc . Things in life are simple ..its either right /wrong/. Legal /illegal/. Passed or failed the rest is word salad

 

[mainline]

Yes C3 ,s would be advisories . But ask 1000 people what a MOT test means in regards to been able to continue to use the car . Its failed or passed . That simple . A EICR is the same ...unless it’s good , you cannot rent out if you are wanting to let etc . Things in life are simple ..it’s either right /wrong/. Legal /illegal/. Passed or failed the rest is word salad

I can see on a mot sheet where it says fail.
I can’t see where it says the same on the Eicr one.

At the end of the day everyone understands the term Fail but using the wrong terminology does sound less professional.

It’s like many electricians use the term Buzzz bar instead of Bus bar.

Ps it’s usually the ones that have the velocity bags, designer work boots and shorts

 

[LukeD]

I can see on a mot sheet where it says fail.
I can’t see where it says the same on the Eicr one.

At the end of the day everyone understands the term Fail but using the wrong terminology does sound less professional.

It’s like many electricians use the term Buzzz bar instead of Bus bar.

Ps it’s usually the ones that have the velocity bags, designer work boots and shorts

So true !

 

[davesparks]

Its a pass or no pass situation ! Like a cars MOT ...any legal jargon can be used .Buts its either passed or failed !

It's not legal jargon, it's plain English with specific meanings.
An MOT and an EICR are different things.
An MOT is a legally required examination of a vehicle which can have a pass or fail result. If a vehicle fails an MOT it cannot legally be driven on the road (except to be driven to a test centre within reasonable distance for a retest)
An EICR is a report on the condition of an electrical installation, it describes the condition of the installation with an overall assessment of either satisfactory or unsatisfactory. You cannot pass of fail a condition report.

I thought about the C3 option but then again why even a C3 ? Both requirements for them to be used has not been proven correct as I have proven them incorrect .

If the regulations would require AFDDs to be installed if this was a new installation and the addition of AFDDs to this installation could improve safety then you give it a C3.

If you as the inspector have assessed it as not needing AFDDs then don't record anything on the report.
You are inspecting the installation and you are writing the report.

 

[davesparks]

From post 11.

The requirements of BS 7671 are not retrospective, so, existing installations do not require upgrading.

So they don't need to be fitted in your case.

That's irrelevant.

The question is about an EICR and that is carried out to the current edition of the wiring regulations regardless of when it was installed.

 

[davesparks]

Yes C3 ,s would be advisories . But ask 1000 people what a MOT test means in regards to been able to continue to use the car . Its failed or passed . That simple . A EICR is the same ...unless its good , you cannot rent out if you are wanting to let etc . Things in life are simple ..its either right /wrong/. Legal /illegal/. Passed or failed the rest is word salad

Yes if a vehicle fails an MOT it cannot be used on public roads.

But if an installation is found to be unsatisfactory on an EICR it is not prevented from being used, you don't isolate the installation at the end of the testing of you find it to be unsatisfactory.

 

[davesparks]

A Mot is not simply a pass or fail advisories being the equivalent of c3s.

MOT advisories are not similar to a C3 observation on an EICR.

An MOT advisory identifies items on a vehicle which are worn/deteriorated but not to the point of failing the MOT and will likely require repair before the next MOT.
Advisories are not recommendations of alterations you could make to a vehicle to improve its safety.

A C3 observation on an EICR is a recommendation for and alteration which could bead made to an installation which could improve safety.

 

[mainline]

MOT advisories are not similar to a C3 observation on an EICR.

They are similar in the respect that they are given without failing or being unsatisfactory.

 

[mainline]

Yes if a vehicle fails an MOT it cannot be used on public roads.

But if an installation is found to be unsatisfactory on an EICR it is not prevented from being used, you don't isolate the installation at the end of the testing of you find it to be unsatisfactory.

Would you leave it in a dangerous condition then ?

 

[LukeD]

for the purpose of been able to rent .A “pass “ is required as without you cannot let. Playing with words is a waste of time ! A “pass “ means you have achieved the requirements that the test requires and the test is required so the property can be rented out . Its like saying “its good to go”. People still understand the meaning .

 

[LukeD]

They are similar in the respect that they are given without failing or being unsatisfactory.

Exactly !!!

 

[LukeD]

Landlord... “So Whats the result of my EICR test in a property I am renting out “?

tester ..” Its Unsatisfactory , failed, crap , dangerous , dodgy etc


Landlord..” It failed then, I’m in the mess , what the heck , this will cost me money . I cant start renting it as the estate agents cannot market it .


Tester : Its all good, satisfactory , passed , Chicken soup . Cushtie (How do you spell that ! )

Landlord: “ Great its passed , satisfactory all good to go”

 

[davesparks]

Would you leave it in a dangerous condition then ?

I would do whatever is reasonable to reduce the danger of any C1 items, having agreed this with the customer first.
C2 items almost always get left as they are.

 

[mainline]

Landlord... “So Whats the result of my EICR test in a property I am renting out “?

tester ..” Its Unsatisfactory , failed, crap , dangerous , dodgy etc


Landlord..” It failed then, I’m in the mess , what the heck , this will cost me money . I cant start renting it as the estate agents cannot market it .


Tester : Its all good, satisfactory , passed , Chicken soup . Cushtie (How do you spell that ! )

Landlord: “ Great its passed , satisfactory all good to go”

Sorry I couldn’t make it today as my mot was unsatisfactory

 

[mainline]

I would do whatever is reasonable to reduce the danger of any C1 items, having agreed this with the customer first.
C2 items almost always get left as they are.

Guess you wouldn’t consider a situation that’s potentially dangerous and needs urgent attention in actually being so.
although giving them a piece of paper saying it is and leaving it energised.

I guess that’s where an mot inspector wouldn’t allow a car that has a major defect to be driven.

 

[davesparks]

for the purpose of been able to rent .A “pass “ is required as without you cannot let. Playing with words is a waste of time !

It's not playing with words or a waste of time, it is using the correct language to ensure your arse is covered if something goes wrong.

A “pass “ means you have achieved the requirements that the test requires and the test is required so the property can be rented out .

A "pass" means or implies that it is fully compliant, absolutely and completely safe.
"Satisfactory" means that it meets a minimum standard for safety, it is safe as far as you can reasonably see.

Landlord... “So Whats the result of my EICR test in a property I am renting out “?

tester ..” Its Unsatisfactory , failed, crap , dangerous , dodgy etc


Landlord..” It failed then, I’m in the mess , what the heck , this will cost me money . I cant start renting it as the estate agents cannot market it .


Tester : Its all good, satisfactory , passed , Chicken soup . Cushtie (How do you spell that ! )

Landlord: “ Great its passed , satisfactory all good to go”

It doesn't matter what the landlord says or how they understand your words, it matters that you, as a skilled professional have done things correctly.

 

[davesparks]

Guess you wouldn’t consider a situation that’s potentially dangerous and needs urgent attention in actually being so.

If it needs urgent attention then it is immediately dangerous and should be treated as such.

although giving them a piece of paper saying it is and leaving it energised.

If the customer authorised me to isolate it then I would do so, but otherwise an electrician has no authority to just isolate anything.

I guess that’s where an mot inspector wouldn’t allow a car that has a major defect to be driven.

An MOT inspector doesn't prevent a car from being driven in any circumstance.