Is the 17th really needed ???

castlon11 · Sep 30, 2009

The company i work for is NIC approved but the NIC inspector only ever assess our electrical supervisor who has only just done 17th. 3 other electricians including me who they wont send on the 17th and haven't been sent on any refresher course, finished our apprenticeship 7 years ago, we are doing PIR certs which he said was not allowed?

I heard from NIC training officer only the electrical supervisor should be doing the PIRs?

He also said it's not law that we have to do the 17th, so if we were self employed apart from bettering our carer, we don't have to do it. I found no evidence on any website to say it needs doing just that since July 2008 all domestic ect buildings have to comply with 17th.
If this is true then i would only need to read the 17th regs book. ???

If you have any better sources on website about difinitive answers to this matter please post.

Thanks.

Notsosmart · Sep 30, 2009

IEE regs is NOT manadatory, but in a court of law how do you demonstrate competency & compliance with Electricity @ work act etc.

So, why do you ask does it exist? Well its guidlines on the MINIMUM safe working practices that we should adhere to, & you just know that the prosecuting lawyer will be calling upon an 'expert' to quote from it.

Also Employmers like to have a measure stick (especially against the self employed sub-contract) & so it may become harder to change jobs without demonstrating you are up to date.

castlon11 · Sep 30, 2009

This was a question based upon whether i:
* should be doing PIR certs ?
* if i read the 17th addition regs book then all my work would comply to current standards yes/no ?
* Should NIC inspector be assessing normal electricians not just our electrical supervisor ?

These are the main points i was after, not about courts or whether or not i could get into another job, but thanks anyways. Hope someone else has definitive answers which i cant find on the net.

*To further state that i will be planning to do the 17th but i was interesting in the legality of it all.

Notsosmart · Sep 30, 2009

chrisbrockway said:
This was a question based upon whether i:
* should be doing PIR certs ?
* if i read the 17th addition regs book then all my work would comply to current standards yes/no ?
* Should NIC inspector be assessing normal electricians not just our electrical supervisor ?

These are the main points i was after, not about courts or whether or not i could get into another job, but thanks anyways. Hope someone else has definitive answers which i cant find on the net.

*To further state that i will be planning to do the 17th but i was interesting in the legality of it all.

Sorry, my mistake, I thought part of the question was about legalities & further employment.. Oh yes this part:

chrisbrockway said:
He also said it's not law that we have to do the 17th, so if we were self employed apart from bettering our carer, we don't have to do it. I found no evidence on any website to say it needs doing just that since July 2008 all domestic ect buildings have to comply with 17th.
If this is true then i would only need to read the 17th regs book. ???
Thanks.

castlon11 · Sep 30, 2009

[quote/]so if we were self employed apart from bettering our carer,[/quote]

So i did'nt want to know about furthering carer and just a straight answer about can i do PIRs with c&g NVQ 2&3 do you legaly have to take the 17th edition or would just reading it be suficiant.

Notsosmart · Sep 30, 2009

chrisbrockway said:
This was a question based upon whether i:
* should be doing PIR certs ?
* if i read the 17th addition regs book then all my work would comply to current standards yes/no ?
* Should NIC inspector be assessing normal electricians not just our electrical supervisor ?

These are the main points i was after, not about courts or whether or not i could get into another job, but thanks anyways. Hope someone else has definitive answers which i cant find on the net.

*To further state that i will be planning to do the 17th but i was interesting in the legality of it all.

Mr brockway; I was never suggesting that you need or want to find another job, but was merely stating that it helps when doing so.

I'll try to answer the crux of what you are after;

#1~ To undertake PIR's you should be able to demonstrate competency (i.e. have 2391) &
#2 ~ To prove knowledge & understanding of the latest regs & guidlines; unless you can quote verbatum then 2381(although really this only demonstrates that you can find your way around the book),& yes we all have to refer to the BRB most of the time.
As long as you are installing to satisfy the regs then (as I said before) then yes you are satisfying the minimum requirement
#3 ~ The nic inspector should be assessing the installation, not individuals (how many times have more than 1 sparks worked on an installation), so yes I agree with you there. I suppose he could be looking at the effectiveness of the supervisor to keep work compliant.

As to the NICEIC they are somewhat a law to themselves & can be picky & demanding (oh god I can hear the furious tapping of keys) Incomming!

I shall crawl back under my rock now.