Kitchen refit - sockets moved from wall to units?

[FatAlan]

32amp rfc supplying two gang sockets in wall behind kitchen units. At present horrible holes have been cut in the back of the units to get access to the sockets for appliances. New units going in. Whats the best way of extending to a pattress in the back of the unit? In essence Im looking for and unfused connection unit that will fit to a double back box.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I have seen a twin blanking plate drilled out and connector blocks used to make a ‘make shift’ connection plate

 

[Intoelectrics]

Could you not extend the cables using maintenance free joints?

 

[buzzlightyear]

I have seen a twin blanking plate drilled out and connector blocks used to make a ‘make shift’ connection plate

or better still put a planking plate on and come out off the back box by extending the cable .

 

[FatAlan]

Could you not extend the cables using maintenance free joints?

Yes, could do but am somewhat surprised that there isn't a purpose built product especially as this must be quite a common scenario. Perhaps Im over complicating things!

 

[Intoelectrics]

@ Buzz,

or better still put a planking plate on and come out off the back box by extending the cable .

So what is the difference with my suggestion, which you disagreed with?? I would extend the cables using a maintenance free joint within the back box and cover over with a blanking plate.
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Yes, could do but am somewhat surprised that there isn't a purpose built product especially as this must be quite a common scenario. Perhaps Im over complicating things!

I agree, which is why I suggested a maintenance free joint since the blanking plate may not be easily accessible.

 

[FatAlan]

Best idea so far

 

[buzzlightyear]

So what is the difference with my suggestion, which you disagreed with

if you put a maintenance free in side the back box does it defeat the job .it is no difference then then putting in wagos .

 

[FatAlan]

Just trying to get a neat way of routing the cable through the blanking plate which ideally would need some sort of clamp to protect it from being pulled and stressing the actual conductor connectors.

 

[Intoelectrics]

if you put a maintenance free in side the back box does it defeat the job .it is no difference then then putting in wagos .

Sorry Buzz, but I really don't understand your point?
The back boxes are already there and make for a good enclosure, a "maintenance free" joint is more reliable than a screw connection but just as easy to install, the blanking plate forms an almost neat flush enclosure cover but remains accessible (though limited by the kitchen cupboards in this case) should the joint ever need exposing in a worst case scenario.

 

[davesparks]

Sorry Buzz, but I really don't understand your point?
The back boxes are already there and make for a good enclosure, a "maintenance free" joint is more reliable than a screw connection but just as easy to install, the blanking plate forms an almost neat flush enclosure cover but remains accessible (though limited by the kitchen cupboards in this case) should the joint ever need exposing in a worst case scenario.

You don't get many maintainence free joint boxes that will fit inside a flush box though.
Wago's in the flush box are a sensible alternative to screw terminals, but this is not a maintainence free joint because the manufacturer has not specified it as such.

 

[buzzlightyear]

You don't get many maintainence free joint boxes that will fit inside a flush box though.
Wago's in the flush box are a sensible alternative to screw terminals, but this is not a maintainence free joint because the manufacturer has not specified it as such.

thats what i was pointing out .

 

[Intoelectrics]

You don't get many maintainence free joint boxes that will fit inside a flush box though.
Wago's in the flush box are a sensible alternative to screw terminals, but this is not a maintainence free joint because the manufacturer has not specified it as such.

Right, so the crux of this conversation is what is actually defined as a "maintenance free" joint. I never specified what style of joint.

 

[Strima]

Right, so the crux of this conversation is what is actually defined as a "maintenance free" joint. I never specified what style of joint.

Exactly, Wago only state MF when using their connectors in their correct enclosure as an example.

 

[telectrix]

wagos in a standard back box with blanking plate be fine. . maintenance free by definition or just plain common sense.

 

[FatAlan]

Common sense Tel. Hoping the box is deep enough to take a MF box although saying that, if the MF box is secured correctly, why bother with a blanking plate?

 

[Intoelectrics]

wagos in a standard back box with blanking plate be fine. . maintenance free by definition or just plain common sense.

My point, the manufacturers are just covering their a***s in case of liability.

If you want to do it totally by the manufacturer's recommendations then chop out the back boxes make the holes bigger and fix back the wago's enclosure. (complete waste of time and effort in my opinion)
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If this is going to turn into a debate on definitions then I retract my original suggestion of "maintenance free" and re-place it with "requires minimal maintenance".

 

[FatAlan]

Thanks for the responses folks. Just makes you wonder how many non MF sockets and connection units are hidden and inaccessible behind fitted kitchen units

 

[Dustydazzler]

Thanks for the responses folks. Just makes you wonder how many non MF sockets and connection units are hidden and inaccessible behind fitted kitchen units

Thousands and possibly millions...

Rip out a kitchen that was fitted in the 1980s or 1990s and I would bet my bottom dollar you will find at least one totally hidden jointed cable

 

[Midwest]

@FatAlan Are the sockets to be used?

 

[FatAlan]

No. Just need to jump across the service gap at the rear of unit and feed a new surface mounted double socket.

 

[telectrix]

@FatAlan Are the sockets to be used?

i should hope he fits new ones.

 

[Dustydazzler]

i should hope he fits new ones.

Nah

Just clean up the old ones with some turps

 

[Pete999]

32amp rfc supplying two gang sockets in wall behind kitchen units. At present horrible holes have been cut in the back of the units to get access to the sockets for appliances. New units going in. Whats the best way of extending to a pattress in the back of the unit? In essence Im looking for and unfused connection unit that will fit to a double back box.

Might have to fit a double accessory box and fit fcu and a single socket

 

[Midwest]

No. Just need to jump across the service gap at the rear of unit and feed a new surface mounted double socket.

Arrgh. I was going to suggest an access panel for maintenance purposes.

When I did kitchen refurbs and socket outlet point (now behind new floor unit) was required to be reused, I'd rewire it, priced accordingly. Its going to be a bit of a bodge (IMO), trying 'jump across the service gap'.

 

[littlespark]

In my experience, you sometimes wonder how an expert joiner, who spends days fitting a kitchen, perfect mitre on the worktop, but cant cut a simple square hole to access a socket behind a unit. Last one I worked on, the joiners left a hole.... I cant say if its a square with curved sides or a circle with corners.

Same job. Microwave in wall unit with socket in unit above. I'd left the socket on a deep pattress... all the joiner had to do was cut a square hole so the socket would protrude through into the unit.... Nope.... 2 inches off measurement. I had to come back and move the socket to suit HIS hole.

 

[telectrix]

In my experience, you sometimes wonder how an expert joiner, who spends days fitting a kitchen, perfect mitre on the worktop, but cant cut a simple square hole to access a socket behind a unit. Last one I worked on, the joiners left a hole.... I cant say if its a square with curved sides or a circle with corners.

Same job. Microwave in wall unit with socket in unit above. I'd left the socket on a deep pattress... all the joiner had to do was cut a square hole so the socket would protrude through into the unit.... Nope.... 2 inches off measurement. I had to come back and move the socket to suit HIS hole.

i'd have altered his hole ( and i don't mean the hole in the kitchen unit). once had similar. builder/joiner cut hole on board for a double socket, even after i told him that i'd do it. when i fitted the socket, it was 3 inches lower than the other one 4ft. away. customer wanted me to pay to reboard that section of wall. i said how does pi$$ off sound. get the builder back.

 

[tony clark]

i would fit wagos or pushfit inline connectors with a blanking plate if your worried about stress on the cable i would fit a stuffing gland to the face plate you should have enough room to accommodate the stuffing gland in the service gap

 

[telectrix]

yeah. pointless fitting an enclosure within another enclosure.

 

[FatAlan]

I have seen a twin blanking plate drilled out and connector blocks used to make a ‘make shift’ connection plate

Funnily enough having purchased a couple of MK blanking plates, it can be seen that they incorporate two knock/drill out areas suitable to take a cable out.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Yep they sure do...

Make shift flex-out plate

 

[buzzlightyear]

I spy my little eye something begins with W,lol

 

[martin mcguinness]

found this today so as was said before its amazing what you find in a kitchen

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The cooker cable was similar with 3 sets of joints in one pice of cable. Easy fix lift hatches pull cables under floor and re route but as was pointed out this isn't always possible

 

[GBDamo]

Funnily enough having purchased a couple of MK blanking plates, it can be seen that they incorporate two knock/drill out areas suitable to take a cable out.
View attachment 52313

Used these for similar purpose to the OP, just use wagos in the back box but double the cables over avd cable tie to give additional stress relief. If someone gives it a real tug they'll bring the whole lot through the blanking plate before the cable joint fails.

Show willing and apply some common sense.

 

[Dustydazzler]

found this today so as was said before its amazing what you find in a kitchenView attachment 52326
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The cooker cable was similar with 3 sets of joints in one pice of cable. Easy fix lift hatches pull cables under floor and re route but as was pointed out this isn't always possible

If you do regular work in houses and flats you will come across these tape joints on a daily basis

What amazes me is that they remain buried under plaster or cement for decades without problem

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Interesting discussion. I'm not saying I wouldn't do what you propose, but are we not breaking reg 526.3 doing it this way? I do agree that it seems pointless putting an enclosure inside another enclosure, so would this be considered a departure?

 

[GBDamo]

Interesting discussion. I'm not saying I wouldn't do what you propose, but are we not breaking reg 526.3 doing it this way? I do agree that it seems pointless putting an enclosure inside another enclosure, so would this be considered a departure?

Yes, but it is a highly sensible solution to the problem that will never give any cause for concern. It also looks a lot tidier than a wago box hanging out of an open back box.

 

[sinewove]

@FatAlan Are the sockets to be used?

Crimped but joints anyone?