Looks like another one bites the dust

Discuss Looks like another one bites the dust in the Business Related area at ElectriciansForums.net

U

Uglyduckling

Hi.
I have been trading for 4 years now and my business has been dwindling away over the years.
ok alittle history. I'm part p registered with Elecsa and have been now for 4 years.
I decided to set up on my own when being made redundant from a big electrical firm.
When I started 4 years ago I brought a little Fiesta Van had it sign written and off I went.
Back then I joined Rated People which really got things moving. I found news paper advertising useless to name but a few.
The first 2 years were great. I was working 5 to 6 days a week. Most of the work was smaller stuff up to consumer unit changes etc.
last year. 2013. Things started to change. I left Rated People as there was to many numptys chasing after my estimates who had no qualifications, no governing body etc. and rated people changed they way they worked. Back then you could get credits if unable to quote. Now they just keep your cash.
So I decided to try Check A Trade.
Now I was never as busy as when I started out but the work kept coming in.
My van got broken into outside a customers house and the buggers nicked everything I had in the back. Fortunately I only carry the tools I require for that day.
I decided to get rid of the van and work from my estate car instead. My estate car is a old Volvo.
Ok I don't know if this was the start of it. Turning up to customers houses in a car and not a nice sign written van.
This year has been the worst ever.
Im not getting half the phone calls as I used to even tho I'm in the top 5 on check a trade in my area.
Im really struggling now and as a example I did one small job last week. This week I only have one booked so far.
Why have I written this post?
What I would like to ask. Is it me or has the private part p electrical sector gone dead?
the only things I've changed is check a trade and my van to a car.
the quality of my work is still the same as it has ever been. Judging from my feed back.
What have I done wrong?
Things are now so bad I am getting close to throwing in the towel and go back to a job I used to do years ago just to get a steady wage.
I will stay nameless but I work in the south. Oxfordshire southwards.
Many thanks.
 
can't blame the volvo, or yourself. trade is up and down. nowadays ppl don't want to spend, but the economy is on the up, and if you can survive till february, you should see an upturn in work.
 
Sound like your a little too reliant on these silly sites, maybe people have started wising up to the fact
That the tradesmen they supply are not trusted or rated after all(im not aiming that at you in anyway)

turning up in an estate is not gonna help your image much tbh

you need to work on getting referral and recommendations, build relationships with local contractors and other trades, this brings in a regular stream of work without the overheads of advertising(its always good to have a little bit of advertising, but not to rely upon it)

sadly its not instant and takes years to build up, i would of though by 4 years you should have built up a bit of a network


the area around me become saturated with new start ups four or five years ago, nearly all of them have disappeared now, probably gone back to the big sites up town
 
Sorry to hear your tale of woe.

Where are you based? (Town)

I have more work than I can handle at present. The previous really good year for me was in 2009. 2011 was dire. Turnover is really unpredictable from month to month and year to year.

Do you have your own website? If you have a properly targeted site, I recon you can do as well as these paid-for online sites. I'm finding that I'm getting more and more business from customers doing a Google search.
 
I would say that reliance on Check-a-Trade has been your down fall.

Seen a couple of mates who do bathrooms suffer the same.

I think Check-a-trade "attracts" the wrong sort of customers - the ones you don't really want!

Do you have a website?
Have you invested in decent "logoed" clothing?
decent cards?
Do you contact details include your address, landline and mobile numbers?

I get about 75% of my business through word of mouth and repeat business and FYI I spend about £720 per year on marketing.

As for the vehicle - there are a few "bashed" estates going around here, but they seem to be doing OK
 
Welchyboy1 said:
Sound like your a little too reliant on these silly sites, maybe people have started wising up to the fact
That the tradesmen they supply are not trusted or rated after all(im not aiming that at you in anyway)

turning up in an estate is not gonna help your image much tbh

you need to work on getting referral and recommendations, build relationships with local contractors and other trades, this brings in a regular stream of work without the overheads of advertising(its always good to have a little bit of advertising, but not to rely upon it)

sadly its not instant and takes years to build up, i would of though by 4 years you should have built up a bit of a network


the area around me become saturated with new start ups four or five years ago, nearly all of them have disappeared now, probably gone back to the big sites up town
Click to expand...

Bowlox!!!

Over 20 years I used Mazda 626 hatchbacks and had no trouble getting work at all.

The bonuses were I only had one vehicle to tax, insure & maintain and that vehicle served a dual role of works van and family car to perfection, but the real biggie was it was NEVER broken into and I NEVER lost any tools or equipment out of it!

Maybe not as "professional" looking as a properly sign-written van, but a bloody sight more practical and secure for me!!
 
We use cars at work partly for insurance purposes. Vans are substantially more expensive to insure for trades use as you can pretty much guarantee there will be tools in there.
 
To the OP
Sorry to hear this too , but I think things are on the up in general !? So it may be worth keeping going that bit longer .
As for these sites , I think you can not have better work than word of mouth .
I know you have been getting good reports , but how many personal referrals do you have come in . I would use this as yard stick to customer satisfaction and start looking for the reason why , if it is anything but good .
We were duped into using Yellow pages once about 10 years ago , and wish I had just burnt the money instead !
All it did was put us on the map for never ending marketing calls and several customers that were just chancers .
As a upshot we seem to be on google as a free listing , and get maybe three or four calls a year because of it , and almost always they will be a liability to work for .
Not sure if that will be any help to you , but that is what I have found
 
Geordie Spark said:
Bowlox!!!

Over 20 years I used Mazda 626 hatchbacks and had no trouble getting work at all.

The bonuses were I only had one vehicle to tax, insure & maintain and that vehicle served a dual role of works van and family car to perfection, but the real biggie was it was NEVER broken into and I NEVER lost any tools or equipment out of it!

Maybe not as "professional" looking as a properly sign-written van, but a bloody sight more practical and secure for me!!
Click to expand...

Theres work and theres work

I dont get how an estate car is more practical than a van

Sorry but you project an image of your business when you turn up on a job, especially from new clients when responding to an advert enquiry

if i wanted a to hire a professional tradesmen, and some chancer turned up in a rusty old estate........lol!

but then if it works for you, crack on!
 
Feel for you matey. I founded my firm 6 yrs ago and its been an uphill battle through the recession, up one month down the next. And many firms have a honeymoon period - you're now at the sleeping on the couch stage!! Keep at it, darkest hour before dawn and all that stuff.
 
JD6400 said:
To the OP
Sorry to hear this too , but I think things are on the up in general !? So it may be worth keeping going that bit longer .
As for these sites , I think you can not have better work than word of mouth .
I know you have been getting good reports , but how many personal referrals do you have come in . I would use this as yard stick to customer satisfaction and start looking for the reason why , if it is anything but good .
We were duped into using Yellow pages once about 10 years ago , and wish I had just burnt the money instead !
All it did was put us on the map for never ending marketing calls and several customers that were just chancers .
As a upshot we seem to be on google as a free listing , and get maybe three or four calls a year because of it , and almost always they will be a liability to work for .
Not sure if that will be any help to you , but that is what I have found
Click to expand...

I agree - they're a complete waste of time and money.

What I found that worked was a simple one-line ad in the local paper, small ads in local shops and flyers dropped through the letterboxes of the street I happened to be working in at the time.

AND never underestimate word of mouth which is THE BEST advert there is!!
 
Geordie Spark said:
I agree - they're a complete waste of time and money.

What I found that worked was a simple one-line ad in the local paper, small ads in local shops and flyers dropped through the letterboxes of the street I happened to be working in at the time.

AND never underestimate word of mouth which is THE BEST advert there is!!
Click to expand...

MOUTH being the operative word with a geordie.
 
I've had a fairly long fallow period, I was relying on work coming in from a couple of builders I know. As their work dried up during the recession so did mine. As a result I was treading water for a couple of years.
I decided on one more roll of the dice and built a website (which is nowhere near the finished article yet but it's there and people have found me through it) I spent a few quid on properly branded workwear (customers now expect you to be dressed in a certain way, it's what they're used to now) and bought a few thousand flyers (doesn't work for everyone but it's working for me just now so it has to be worth £60 for 5k flyers)
Then it comes to the networking, you have to work at it. Start giving your contacts a call just to shoot the breeze at first but turn the conversation round to work and how much they have. Tell them you're a bit slack (don't tell them you're on the bones of your arse whatever you do)
Stand outside your local shed of a Saturday handing your flyers out, there's always some muppet who will buy a light fitting and cock up the connection of it. If he has your details you'll be the one he calls
If you have any fairly recent commercial customers, offer to give them a free hour of assessing their energy useage to identify any possible savings (if you have nothing to do it's worth a punt) if you identify any them shout about their options and give them a payback timetable (accountants will love it)
I'm in no way an expert on this stuff mate but give stuff like this a go. Shy bairns get nee sweeties.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
trev said:
I've had a fairly long fallow period, I was relying on work coming in from a couple of builders I know. As their work dried up during the recession so did mine. As a result I was treading qwater for a couple of years.
I decided on one more roll of the dice and built a website (which is nowhere near the finished article yet but it's there and people have found me through it) I spent a few quid on properly branded workwear (customers now expect you to be dressed in a certain way, it's what they're used to now) and bought a few thousand flyers (doesn't work for everyone but it's working for me just now so it has to be worth £60 for 5k flyers)
Then it comes to the networking, you have to work at it. Start giving your contacts a call just to shoot the breeze at first but turn the conversation round to work and how much they have. Tell them you're a bit slack (don't tell them you're on the bones of your arse whatever you do)
Stand outside your local shed of a Saturday handing your flyers out, there's always some muppet who will buy a light fitting and cock up the connection of it. If he has your details you'll be the one he calls
If you have any fairly recent commercial customers, offer to give them a free hour of assessing their energy useage to identify any possible savings (if you have nothing to do it's worth a punt) if you identify any them shout about their options and give them a payback timetable (accountants will love it)
I'm in no way an expert on this stuff mate but give stuff like this a go. Shy bairns get nee sweeties.
Click to expand...


Aye .. that's varry canny Son, but up at this end of the river we have ..... water. ;)
 
trev said:
I've had a fairly long fallow period, I was relying on work coming in from a couple of builders I know. As their work dried up during the recession so did mine. As a result I was treading water for a couple of years.
I decided on one more roll of the dice and built a website (which is nowhere near the finished article yet but it's there and people have found me through it) I spent a few quid on properly branded workwear (customers now expect you to be dressed in a certain way, it's what they're used to now) and bought a few thousand flyers (doesn't work for everyone but it's working for me just now so it has to be worth £60 for 5k flyers)
Then it comes to the networking, you have to work at it. Start giving your contacts a call just to shoot the breeze at first but turn the conversation round to work and how much they have. Tell them you're a bit slack (don't tell them you're on the bones of your arse whatever you do)
Stand outside your local shed of a Saturday handing your flyers out, there's always some muppet who will buy a light fitting and cock up the connection of it. If he has your details you'll be the one he calls
If you have any fairly recent commercial customers, offer to give them a free hour of assessing their energy useage to identify any possible savings (if you have nothing to do it's worth a punt) if you identify any them shout about their options and give them a payback timetable (accountants will love it)
I'm in no way an expert on this stuff mate but give stuff like this a go. Shy bairns get nee sweeties.
Click to expand...

If I did that kind of work this is pretty much how I'd go about it. Website is a must nowadays as is some branded shirts and a logo or two on your vehicle. I think flyers are good if you keep them very targeted. Every job you do take the time to knock on a few doors either direction and give them a flyer, you're hit rate will be much higher if they know you've worked for a neighbour and they were happy with you.

Also keep a database of your customers and give them a follow-up call every few months....but not too often and if they sound unhappy offer not to call them again. It's also worth giving you domestic customers a business card or two and enquire if they might have a call for an electrician at their place of business.

I would suggest instead of getting thousands of flyers rather get a hundred or two and spend the rest on some branded items that would make the customer want to keep them. For example some branded fusewire holders and if they've got an old type CU you leave one tucked in the front of it. Maybe a small keyring type LED branded flashlight that you could secure to the CU with a clip so if there's power failure it's there for emergencies. If I went with flyers I'd keep them small and focussed and put some info on there that might make them want to keep them such as phone numbers for electric billing enquiries, council or DNO fault report numbers or anything else you can think of.
 
Marvo said:
I would suggest instead of getting thousands of flyers rather get a hundred or two and spend the rest on some branded items that would make the customer want to keep them.
Click to expand...
The thing is, a couple of hundred is going to cost not much less than a few thousand so it's worth spending the extra few quid and getting a boatload of them. You don't have to shove them all into houses and businesses straight away. Other giveaways are going to cost more money, as things grow for me I'm going to get keyrings done, I can get them for £1.50 a pop for 300, I'm also looking at mugs (no one ever has enough) give them to commercial customers.
There's loads of marketing stuff you can do that won't cost you massive amounts of cash mate, get your thinking head on, it will pay off. Like you, a few months back I was ready to throw in the towel, this month I'm looking at a turnover of 3.5k
I'm not prepared to put my profit on open forum but trust me, it's worth getting out of bed for :)
 
trev said:
The thing is, a couple of hundred is going to cost not much less than a few thousand so it's worth spending the extra few quid and getting a boatload of them. You don't have to shove them all into houses and businesses straight away. Other giveaways are going to cost more money, as things grow for me I'm going to get keyrings done, I can get them for £1.50 a pop for 300, I'm also looking at mugs (no one ever has enough) give them to commercial customers.
There's loads of marketing stuff you can do that won't cost you massive amounts of cash mate, get your thinking head on, it will pay off. Like you, a few months back I was ready to throw in the towel, this month I'm looking at a turnover of 3.5k
I'm not prepared to put my profit on open forum but trust me, it's worth getting out of bed for :)
Click to expand...

Oooh well if you're giving away mugs, I may just get you round to look at my consumer unit. :tt1:
 
trev said:
I'm not prepared to put my profit on open forum but trust me, it's worth getting out of bed for :)
Click to expand...

When you go SE, you have to make it worth it or the Check outs at the local supermarket bekon!

The mugs selling themselves for tuppence are the fools.

My best revenue month this year to date was £7400!
 
I was thinking of a more solid kind of thing mate, you know the type with a ring and a polycarbonate fob maybe 3 cm x 5 but that's definitely worth a dig into
 
trev said:
I was thinking of a more solid kind of thing mate, you know the type with a ring and a polycarbonate fob maybe 3 cm x 5 but that's definitely worth a dig into
Click to expand...

I ordered mine nearly 5 years ago. I've used a couple for my own keys and they still look pretty good. Lasted better than I expected them to.
With space for around 60 letters on a standard one, there's room for your name, 'Electrician', web address and phone number (unless your name's Christopher Fotherington-Loopfob).
 
The other thing I have found recently is the price people are willing to do a day's work. Last Tuesday I went to see a restaurant owner where we did a part rewire, new LED panels in the suspended ceiling, new switching, lots of new sockets etc. Anyway, all finished around 2 months ago, he called me last week to ask to go and quote to install 4 x CCTV cameras, and 4 x recessed ceiling speakers, and set up all the control panel and stereo system.

I estimated it at around a day's work, with around £15 for fixings and bits and bobs. Grand total of around £250 for working in centre of town. He came back to me on Saturday night to say the company who supplied it would install all of it for £100. You cannot compete with that, so today I am having a sort out day instead. Yes I am not earning, but it is better for my business and customers to be organised and on top of everything, than being a busy fool earning nothing at all but not having time to do the behind the scenes stuff.

There are also lots of sparks around here working for around £150 per day, once you have put all your costs into that that probably means you are working for about £8 per hour, which when you are SE and get no holiday pay etc etc is not worth it!!!!
 
Thankyou everybody for for all your replies.
Yes you are all correct about investing alittle in marketing. I like the sign written torches and mugs idea. That's the biggest problem with flyers etc. within hours they end up in the bottom of a hamsters cage or worse.
To be totally honest I have a couple of mugs in the cupboard from car garages that used to service cars of mine over 10 years ago.
People don't chuck away mugs or torches. So I'm going to invest in a few to give out to customers that have work done.
100% Thankyou for that idea.
Now to this reply that I have quoted.
This is the one thing that drives me mad. Every day I have a call from some numpty that expects a job done for nothing.
Only last week I had somebody phone me to replace a pir flood security light. I quoted my price plus the cost of the light.
His reply was. ((((WHAT!!!! It's a 20 quid job))).
Now who on the Mother Earth is going to do a call out for£20?
i don't know where people get there ideas from but there not from this day and age.
The problem is that everything is still going up daily. Our shopping has doubled in price. Not to mention our costs being electricians. My out goings have increased and go up every year.
Now. If you were to phone one of the big company's. Ie Electricity board. British Gas and alike. You start off with a call out over £100 plus VAT.
So us smaller guys should be getting similar or close to it.
It won't matter if you drop and drop your prices there will always be some mug out there that will do it cheaper. Even if you charged a fiver call out there will be some nob that will do it for 4 quid.
Why bother. This is the biggest reason that I feel like chucking it all in and going back to a steady job.
I feel like I'm ****ing in the wind.
I think if things don't improve soon I'm going to have to
 
Uglyduckling said:
Now who on the Mother Earth is going to do a call out for£20?
i don't know where people get there ideas from but there not from this day and age.
The problem is that everything is still going up daily. Our shopping has doubled in price. Not to mention our costs being electricians. My out goings have increased and go up every year.
Now. If you were to phone one of the big company's. Ie Electricity board. British Gas and alike. You start off with a call out over £100 plus VAT.
So us smaller guys should be getting similar or close to it.
It won't matter if you drop and drop your prices there will always be some mug out there that will do it cheaper. Even if you charged a fiver call out there will be some nob that will do it for 4 quid.
Why bother. This is the biggest reason that I feel like chucking it all in and going back to a steady job.
I feel like I'm ****ing in the wind.
I think if things don't improve soon I'm going to have to
Click to expand...

People that operate in that way, be it they are in the early stages of their business so are desperate for work, or they have never sat down and worked out their annual costs, will never get very far, and as someone said earlier in the thread they slowly disappear back to where they came from.

I have people who think if I charge £200 for labour then that is £200 in my pocket. They seemingly forget the fact that if the job is 25 miles away, then that is a 50 mile round trip, at a cost of £8 in diesel, probably an hour and a half of my time to get there and back, then all the annual costs on top. So it probably works out as £120 in my pocket, which for 8-9 hours labour is not very much at all!!! Considering we don't get holiday pay, no security of money coming in each month etc.

Don't get me wrong, being self employed is great for many reasons, but people soon forget or choose to neglect the negatives of which there are also many!!!
 
Uglyduckling said:
This is the one thing that drives me mad. Every day I have a call from some numpty that expects a job done for nothing.
Only last week I had somebody phone me to replace a pir flood security light. I quoted my price plus the cost of the light.
His reply was. ((((WHAT!!!! It's a 20 quid job))).
Now who on the Mother Earth is going to do a call out for£20?
Click to expand...

So he thinks he can get a new light and fitted for £20.00 - what a numpty

Try advertising/marketing in a different area!
 
Welchyboy1 said:
Theres work and theres work

I dont get how an estate car is more practical than a van

Sorry but you project an image of your business when you turn up on a job, especially from new clients when responding to an advert enquiry

if i wanted a to hire a professional tradesmen, and some chancer turned up in a rusty old estate........lol!

but then if it works for you, crack on!
Click to expand...

Rusty old estate???

All four of them were hatchbacks and three of those cars were never more than 3 years old and the last one was brand new.

I could get all my plumbing AND electrical toolboxes plus power tools in the boot without folding the back seats down and full 3 metre lengths of tube / conduit etc fitted nicely through the specially designed snow ski hatch. Ladders were carried on the roof bars which were only fitted when needed.

Nothing was left on show to give the game away to any toe rag so yes, it did work for me and I did crack on!!

Thank you for your interest!

Keeky Chunt!!
 
davesparks said:
Sod building flightcases for a lark! We build our own in-house for our gear. But I'll be buggered if I'm doing it for anyone else!
Click to expand...

Haha ..... I know what you mean.

I started building them for my PA hire company then people started asking me to so supply them and it just took off.

Next thing I knew the PA business was gone and I was in a 3,000 square feet factory unit with panel saws, cross cut saws, mitre saws, air drills & air pop riveters and the compressor to drive them and a bunch of ex-shipyard lads plus a YTS lad to do the actual work while I was out & about getting the orders and designing the things on AutoCAD which I went to night classes to learn how to use.
 
If we had proper workshop facilities like that I wouldn't mind so much.

But a skil saw, wobbly table saw, router and rivet gun with no space at all is far less entertaining.
 
davesparks said:
If we had proper workshop facilities like that I wouldn't mind so much.

But a skil saw, wobbly table saw, router and rivet gun with no space at all is far less entertaining.
Click to expand...

I know.

I started in my back yard during the summer and moved into the back bedroom during the winter!!

Then I moved in with a Shop Fitter who also made coffins as a sideline for a while and used his saws.

We once had the VAT man pay a visit to check our books and gave him a coffin propped up on a couple of saw stools for his desk and put it in the dirtiest, noisiest place in the shop.

He never came back,
 
Geordie Spark said:
I know.

I started in my back yard during the summer and moved into the back bedroom during the winter!!

Then I moved in with a Shop Fitter who also made coffins as a sideline for a while and used his saws.

We once had the VAT man pay a visit to check our books and gave him a coffin propped up on a couple of saw stools for his desk and put it in the dirtiest, noisiest place in the shop.

He never came back,
Click to expand...


Sorry but ive got to reply to this one.
You gave the VAT man a coffin????
No wonder he never came back.
If a customer gave me a coffin I would run and run and run and not stop running. LOL.
 
This time last year, or close to it, I was sitting on my well padded rear wondering where it all went wrong.

Right now I'm wondering what it was that caused the work avalanche.

I still have all the customers I had when I started out plus all the customers I've picked up along the way.

My van is rough but it turns up on time, the job gets done well, neatly and cleanly.

As others have already said spend your time and effort building up your own customer base.

Word of mouth is king.

There will always be someone who can do the job cheaper, so let them.

I'm not the cheapest, the best or the most expensive but I just plod away making sure I keep every customer as happy as I can.

If a customer wants you to sit down and have a cup of tea with them... do it.

If they want you to get in and out fast... do it.

If they want you to ask permission for every slight deviation.. ask.

TBF the only customers I have lost are the ones I don't want.
 
ferg said:
This time last year, or close to it, I was sitting on my well padded rear wondering where it all went wrong.

Right now I'm wondering what it was that caused the work avalanche.

I still have all the customers I had when I started out plus all the customers I've picked up along the way.

My van is rough but it turns up on time, the job gets done well, neatly and cleanly.

As others have already said spend your time and effort building up your own customer base.

Word of mouth is king.

There will always be someone who can do the job cheaper, so let them.

I'm not the cheapest, the best or the most expensive but I just plod away making sure I keep every customer as happy as I can.

If a customer wants you to sit down and have a cup of tea with them... do it.

If they want you to get in and out fast... do it.

If they want you to ask permission for every slight deviation.. ask.

TBF the only customers I have lost are the ones I don't want.
Click to expand...

I think the whole British Isles is experiencing the same thing at the moment. I've had 49 calls about work this month..... so far
 
Uglyduckling said:
Thankyou everybody for for all your replies.
Yes you are all correct about investing alittle in marketing. I like the sign written torches and mugs idea. That's the biggest problem with flyers etc. within hours they end up in the bottom of a hamsters cage or worse.
To be totally honest I have a couple of mugs in the cupboard from car garages that used to service cars of mine over 10 years ago.
People don't chuck away mugs or torches. So I'm going to invest in a few to give out to customers that have work done.
100% Thankyou for that idea.
Now to this reply that I have quoted.
This is the one thing that drives me mad. Every day I have a call from some numpty that expects a job done for nothing.
Only last week I had somebody phone me to replace a pir flood security light. I quoted my price plus the cost of the light.
His reply was. ((((WHAT!!!! It's a 20 quid job))).
Now who on the Mother Earth is going to do a call out for£20?
i don't know where people get there ideas from but there not from this day and age.
The problem is that everything is still going up daily. Our shopping has doubled in price. Not to mention our costs being electricians. My out goings have increased and go up every year.
Now. If you were to phone one of the big company's. Ie Electricity board. British Gas and alike. You start off with a call out over £100 plus VAT.
So us smaller guys should be getting similar or close to it.
It won't matter if you drop and drop your prices there will always be some mug out there that will do it cheaper. Even if you charged a fiver call out there will be some nob that will do it for 4 quid.
Why bother. This is the biggest reason that I feel like chucking it all in and going back to a steady job.
I feel like I'm ****ing in the wind.
I think if things don't improve soon I'm going to have to
Click to expand...


Sorry but forget making silly gimmics like mugs etc, if your service is good enough you simply wont need to do things like that

you need to focus on getting decent regular customers, you will always get people who expect jobs for silly money, give them your price and move on

Cheap customers are extremely detrimental to your business, you cannot afford to work for people like that, and need to quickly avoid them completely, my nose is so finely tuned i can sniff one of these types out before ive answered the phone to them, they are also usually the most fussy and will waste your time, they also seem to hang around with other cheapskates too

once you get a regular base of decent, good paying customers, you will find they generally socialise and mix with similiar minded good paying people, who hold value and reliability over price, treat these clients like gold dust, and give them an unbelivable service everytime

Dont ever give them an excuse to go anywhere else

this then takes on a snowball effect and you then end up very busy with good quality work/customers

This is the tradesmens nirvana, that you only reach if your good and reliable enough, sorry but you cant cheat or short cut to get to this point

sadly you normally dont find these sorts of customers on the sites you are using to find work

good luck
 
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