Moving the CU

[Amp David]

A customer wants a consumer unit moved about a meter to one side, because she's converting the garage and wants to put a door where the consumer unit is now.
If I don't upgrade the consumer unit, and don't alter or add to any of the circuits, do I have to test the whole house and give an Installation Certificate?

 

[Octopus]

I'd say yes, cause how could you test all the "extensions"?

 

[Amp David]

My view too. This was asked by another local spark, I couldn't believe what I was hearing TBH

 

[Guest55]

i'd say no as youre not installing any new equipment or circuits.
MWC confirming Ze , polarity and bonding connections should suffice.

 

[tony mc]

Im with biff on this one.

I would add a globle IR onto the MWC .

It would be a good time to mention a PIR prior to moving the CU !

 

[SYKRAPS]

I would be testing, what happens if someone gets a fatal belt a few weeks after you moved it and you have no test results. It could be totally unsafe within the fabric.

I think the finger would be pointed straight at the mover....................

 

[Guest55]

I would be testing, what happens if someone gets a fatal belt a few weeks after you moved it and you have no test results. It could be totally unsafe within the fabric.

I think the finger would be pointed straight at the mover....................

so you carry out a full EICR for every job ?

 

[SYKRAPS]

so you carry out a full EICR for every job ?

I think you obviously have to exercise common sense but yes in this case I would as there is going to be other electrical work carried out to convert the garage into a useable room which would require building regs for change of use.

Other factors need to be considered like age of installation, diy work apparent etc etc

 

[imago]

Personally I'd treat it as a CU change from the testing point of view.

so you carry out a full EICR for every job ?

No, only the ones where I disconnect every circuit for the installation, extend the cables, then make new connections. It just wouldn't seem right not to.

 

[martinxxxxxx]

This sounds like a partial rewire
Every circuit is getting a new bit of wiring, I am not sure you can still use the "old" board at all.
No need to do an EICR for every job, but the ones where you are altering the Zs and R1+R2 of all the circuits, should in IHMO be tested up front and a Installation cert done afterwards, how would you know if you have increased the VD beyond what is acceptable?

 

[Guest55]

Personally I'd treat it as a CU change from the testing point of view.



No, only the ones where I disconnect every circuit for the installation, extend the cables, then make new connections. It just wouldn't seem right not to.

and all your customers are happy to pay for this extra service ?

 

[MDJ]

and all your customers are happy to pay for this extra service ?

I doubt it, and I see your point Biff buddy, but if you disconnect a Dist board and extend the cables then re-connect I think it would be difficult not to re-test the circuits and certify, I have been racking my brains about not doing this, I can't see how it is avoidable, great debate though and interesting.

 

[Octopus]

I can't see how you could get away without retesting all the circuits???


unless you are a cowboy!

 

[Guest55]

no-one is saying dont test or dont check over installation prior to any work , it was a question of which cert.
instead we get the usual drama queen crap on what if someone dies ?
i'm sure loads get killed every year from excessive R1+R2 readings.

 

[Octopus]

no-one is saying dont test or dont check over installation prior to any work , it was a question of which cert.
instead we get the usual drama queen crap on what if someone dies ?
i'm sure loads get killed every year from excessive R1+R2 readings.

So what would you do "cowboy" lol

 

[SYKRAPS]

usual drama queen crap on what if someone dies ?

So is this not something to be considered?

 

[MDJ]

no-one is saying dont test or dont check over installation prior to any work , it was a question of which cert.
instead we get the usual drama queen crap on what if someone dies ?
i'm sure loads get killed every year from excessive R1+R2 readings.

I personally would issue a completion certificate due to the fact I had interfered with all circuits and would want to ensure they were safe and sound after re-connecting, plus it is my name of the certificate saying it is safe for a family to live in the house after the works.

 

[imago]

I wouldn't be testing in case someone dies, just to make sure everything was as it should be. The other reason for testing the full range would be to cover myself if other subsequent work generated a fault. I would have a dated record of the readings at the end of the work I'd completed.

and all your customers are happy to pay for this extra service ?

What extra service? I'd only test the circuits I'd worked on, which is all of them, and issue the appropriate paperwork, which would be an EIC.

 

[Guest55]

So is this not something to be considered?

whats it got to do with which cert to issue ?
as per the topic.

 

[SYKRAPS]

whats it got to do with which cert to issue ?
as per the topic.

You are quite right I have gone off topic rather, I would still be completing an EICR for this one fr the reasons I listed earlier.

 

[RogertheBodger]

I would just knock the wall down and hang the cu on the back of the new door, no drama, 2 screws, easy.

 

[not clever]

Move the cu extend circuits issue MW for each circuit.....................simples.............why the protracted debate?

 

[MDJ]

Move the cu extend circuits issue MW for each circuit.....................simples.............why the protracted debate?

Because were british and never agree about anything, our Island is 900 miles long and yet we cannot even speak with the same accents lol, never has there been a country like ours in history, we love debate and love trying to beat each other, thats just brits for you. :santa3:

 

[imago]

A cert per circuit? So eight or ten certs? Hell's teeth you like your paperwork!

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Morning

don't think the OP (Hi Amp) was going to extend any circuits, is that right? Just move the CU. I assume from your post the situation did not require extension of any cable?

 

[imago]

A customer wants a consumer unit moved about a meter to one side, because she's converting the garage and wants to put a door where the consumer unit is now.

Moving it a metre must involve extending the cables surely? Especially if a door is going where it was originally.

 

[ferg]

Installation cert for me.
Removing old CU modifying every circuit then re-installing CU.
Last person to work on it.. you
Extent of installation affected by your work.. all of it.

 

[PEG]

I would just knock the wall down and hang the cu on the back of the new door, no drama, 2 screws, easy.

Good call,but surely hanging the CU on the door will require all circuits to have new flexible cables which,will require testing.Its a mine field....

 

[FAA Greenie]

What is a completion certificate?

Ok, so you are moving a CU, you need to extend the circuits, appropriate box, wago's etc, extend out no worries.

You are not doing an EICR. You are doing a CU change. You do the standard CU change tests, Ze Zs's Insulation tests, all that you need to do to fill out an EIC. In the EIC is a section that details the extent of the work carried out. You put 'Replacement of consumer unit and associated testing only' so long as you can fill out the cert honestly, you are covered.

Should you uncover any problems during the testing you need to to do to complete ther EIC then yes, you need to investigate, eg you cant just shove an R1 of 0.70 in there followed by a 2.5 R2, you will need to investigate that, but that is as far as it goes, if it all adds up and your insulation tests are fine, you are covered.....

 

[not clever]

but its not a cu change, it is relocating the same cu. Unless i read the post wrong which isnt unknown.
So how many when they extend a ringfinal issue an EIC? not me.

So if its the same cu just relocated (no change in ocpd's or rcd's) & the circuits require extending why would you complete an EIC?

 

[Octopus]

but its not a cu change, it is relocating the same cu. Unless i read the post wrong which isnt unknown.
So how many when they extend a ringfinal issue an EIC? not me.

So if its the same cu just relocated (no change in ocpd's or rcd's) & the circuits require extending why would you complete an EIC?

If it means that you have to extend ALL of the cables the very least you shouid do (IMHO) are R1 + R2, IR and Zs on all affected circuits.

If there's 8 circuits you'll need to do 8 x MWC or 1 x EIC - EIC for me.

 

[MDJ]

Certainely a difficult subject for us all to agree on, but removing all circuits, tails and earth wires, plus extending them all and confirming continuity and live tests is quite a complex job really, imagine the trouble if something happened after leaving site, and the problems via insurance matters, a Completion Certificate would be my choice as I mentioned yesterday and to issue these would mean a full set of test results to all affected ciruits which in this case would be all of them, peace of mind and a proper Job done, which bob from the pub local wouldn't do, the householder would be assured a professional spark turned up, imagine handing over a dozen monor work circuits trying to explain doing this job otherwise, or no certification at all lol.

 

[AndyL]

This is not minor works so MWC cannot be used, it specifically says on the guidance note that comes with MWC not to be used for replacement CU. I know OP says he is using original CU but i don't think this makes a difference

 

[SPARTYKUS]

I would say the devil is in the detail on this one.

As mentioned prior, it does depend IF the cables, and which cables, need extending.

I would fully expect ALL cables to need extending moving any CU that distance but maybe one would get away with the tails if its miving closer to cut out, and so on, the same may apply to some/all circuits, they may be plastered in/clipped to the wall in a cellar or a 100 other possible scenarios.


Tricky.

 

[sparky-s-w]

if your extending cables....just do the tests just to be on the safe side. if you dont need to extend cables, then it aint the end of the world if you dont test, but why not test & add the extra hour or so, on to the bill

 

[shazbutz]

I'd test and issue an EIC. I completed a CU replacement, no cable extensions required just a simple upgrade from 3061 to 17th Edition in the same location. On testing got awful Zs results and a Ze way over the max for TN-S. The DNO had to attend and repair their incomer.
You never know what you can find and CYA (cover your @rse) is always to be considered!