Must I rewire the whole house?

[Yung]

Hello everyone,

I just bought a 29 years old property and the contractor is suggesting that we need to rewired the whole house and strip the bathroom and kitchen down completely.

BELOW IS THE LIST OF WORK NEEDED

CU upgrade.
Mains powered smoke, heat alarms, and carbon monoxide detectors. Uprgade Earth bonding to gas & water. Wire loft for electricity and lighting.
Change all sockets and light switches, installing several double switched sockets around & 2 outside sockets. Install 2 extractor fans in bathroom. Replace bathroom spots with new LED. Install LED downlights and decorative light fixtures in the living room/bedroom. Only LED lights to be installed around the house. Motion sensor light outside, hallway and kitchen.
Install 3 Phone points & CAT 6 points in living room. 2 in garage, 1 in hall way. Install 3 TV point in living room, 1 in garage and upstairs bedrooms. Install zoned thermostat

From the attached a copy of the EICR, do you think the house needs a full rewire?

Also, I'll like to know if all the work above can be done without a full rewire?

Finally, is it possible for the rest of the house to be rewired and then the kitchen and bathroom can be done in a year or 2 when I have enough money to refurbish them?

Please note that the bathroom has an electric shower.

I look forward to your responses and expert advice.

Thank you

 

[Octopus]

All this report says is replace the fuseboard and little else....

The list you have .... Is this your aim?

 

[Yung]

All this report says is replace the fuseboard and little else....

The list you have .... Is this your aim?

Yeah, the list is my aim. The things that I'll like to get done based on my zero electrical knowledge. I am open to ideas, corrections and suggestions.

 

[Strima]

The vast majority of that report falls back to no RCD protection which can be easily rectified.

As for the unsupported cables and IP ratings, without further explanation on the report it's anyones guess.

I doubt very much there's requirement for a full rewire.

 

[Octopus]

Why do you think a rewire is necessary?

 

[freddo]

Only 2 of the circuits have been tested? What is the reason for requiring RCDs for fault protection on this installation?

 

[westward10]

That Report is a classic example of someone who should not be doing EICRs.

 

[Wilko]

Hi Young and Welcome to the Fourum.
Sorry to say, I'm doubtful of the codes recorded and the conclusion that you need to rewire is also likely wrong. Might be worth a second opinion about the extent of work needed. Many good folks here will do free quotes

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Since when have single sockets not complied with Bs7671?
This appears to be an NICEIC A/C report as well.

 

[Pete999]

It's almost as though the person doing the EICR has an idea of what he would want in his house, and what you require as well, carried out what is really a cursory inspection, Looks like the conclusion he has arrived at is, if you want all this work done may as well opt for a complete rewire, the only thing visible is the need for RCD protection, which would be a fairly easy and not at all that expensive job.
Testing has been limited to the RFCs (Ring circuits) that's just my take after a look at the report, quick question how much did he charge for the EICR?

 

[Midwest]

I note the reason for the report, is a mortgage application. Apart from the bathroom & kitchen refurbishment, your mortgage lender, on the basis of this EICR, might require to carry out the recommendations of the report for you to obtain your mortgage.

Who paid for the EICR?

 

[westward10]

I suspect the reason there are only loop readings for the sockets is because they didn't know how to do a loop reading using the two/three way leads.

 

[The Ghost]

At No. 4 under agreed operational limitations it is supposed to be agreed with the person ordering the work the items in that box. Did you actually agree to pay for a test that left out three of the circuits? Or did the mortgage company agree to such a poor inspection? Most unlike a mortgage company. Anyway the items listed can be done without a rewire from the information given here. I believe you can remedy the RCD protection but am not convinced it is necessary if equipotential bonding is in place and meets the formula in BS7671. It sounds like you may have to spend circa £500 max to remedy what is listed imho.

 

[Yung]

Why do you think a rewire is necessary?

Honestly, all I want is a house that is electrically up-to-date/safe for me and my family. It is the electrician who is suggesting a full rewire.
I am on a tight budget and I'll rather the house be electrically safe and have no paint on the walls. Although, not waste money that I don't have.

 

[Yung]

Only 2 of the circuits have been tested? What is the reason for requiring RCDs for fault protection on this installation?

I have no idea, the EICR was ordered in the hope it would offer more insight into what actually needs to be done.

 

[telectrix]

then i think it's time to call in a local spark or 2 and get a couple of quotes. from what we can see from here, it's unlikely that a rewire is needed, but this can only be confirmed by personal visit.

 

[Yung]

That Report is a classic example of someone who should not be doing EICRs.

Here I am thinking I did due diligence by hiring an NICEIC registered electrician with NICEIC all over his van.

 

[Yung]

Hi Young and Welcome to the Fourum.
Sorry to say, I'm doubtful of the codes recorded and the conclusion that you need to rewire is also likely wrong. Might be worth a second opinion about the extent of work needed. Many good folks here will do free quotes

Thank you!! I'll be happy to let someone in East London/Essex/Romford area give me a quote and do the job.

 

[Yung]

Looks like the conclusion he has arrived at is, if you want all this work done may as well opt for a complete rewire, the only thing visible is the need for RCD protection, which would be a fairly easy and not at all that expensive job. - If the rewire isn't done now - how long before it needs doing?
Testing has been limited to the RFCs (Ring circuits) that's just my take after a look at the report, quick question how much did he charge for the EICR?

And the charge was £120.00

 

[Yung]

I note the reason for the report, is a mortgage application. Apart from the bathroom & kitchen refurbishment, your mortgage lender, on the basis of this EICR, might require to carry out the recommendations of the report for you to obtain your mortgage.

Who paid for the EICR?

It wasn't for mortgage application per say, it was because we were buying the house and we thought we should get it done before spending money decorating etc.

I paid for it.

 

[Yung]

At No. 4 under agreed operational limitations it is supposed to be agreed with the person ordering the work the items in that box. Did you actually agree to pay for a test that left out three of the circuits? Or did the mortgage company agree to such a poor inspection? Most unlike a mortgage company. Anyway the items listed can be done without a rewire from the information given here. I believe you can remedy the RCD protection but am not convinced it is necessary if equipotential bonding is in place and meets the formula in BS7671. It sounds like you may have to spend circa £500 max to remedy what is listed imho.

Wow!!! Thanks - some much needed reassurance!

 

[telectrix]

And the charge was £120.00

that's why it was a cursory inspection. £200 is a more realistic price for a thorough EICR. it's possible that the guy has gone in cheap there hoping to make a killing from a total rewire. several members in the london area. let's see if one can oblige.

 

[Yung]

then i think it's time to call in a local spark or 2 and get a couple of quotes. from what we can see from here, it's unlikely that a rewire is needed, but this can only be confirmed by personal visit.

Thank you! This will be my next step. Assuming the house was originally wired with PVC sheathed wiring - how long before a full rewire would be needed?

 

[Yung]

that's why it was a cursory inspection. £200 is a more realistic price for a thorough EICR. it's possible that the guy has gone in cheap there hoping to make a killing from a total rewire. several members in the london area. let's see if one can oblige.

That explains why. He just said I charge this amount and I paid. I'll wait and see what happens...or I might just post a job.

 

[telectrix]

how long is a piece of string?pvc wiring, if not subjected to detrimental influences, can remain in service for 50 years plus.

try posting on the "find an electrician" forum ( 2nd one down in the forums menu). bear in mind though that some replies may not be members and as such, will not be personally known.

 

[Pete999]

Thank you! This will be my next step. Assuming the house was originally wired with PVC sheathed wiring - how long before a full rewire would be needed?

How long is a piece of string, as long as the tests carried out are OK then you should be OK however old the install is.

 

[The Ghost]

Here I am thinking I did due diligence by hiring an NICEIC

Just to be clear, no one here can truly judge the state of your wiring adequately. I would err on the side of giving some weight to the opinion of the person who attended your property. It is a very marginal judgement call sometimes on an existing wiring where one will say rewire another upgrade and/or improvement.
I have attended wiring that is simply atrocious, and yet still salvaged what was good and replaced and repaired what is not. The state of insulation sounds fine on your cables. The protective devices are perfectly adequate from what I can glean from the information. There is no doubt, but not a requirement necessarily, that RCD can offer a significant improvement on safety. And if it were my house I would not hesitate to upgrade for the safety of my family.
In short without evidence especially to the contrary I must assume the person attending your property knows whereof they speak it is not for me to malign another without damning evidence.

 

[The Ghost]

duplicate

 

[David M]

Sometimes it can be a personal call when deciding whether to go the full hog. As the folks have already mentioned, to make a clear judgement on the state of and installation requires a site visit and a proper inspection. It could be the case that it is more economical in the long run to just re-wire. It can be a bit like fixing up an old car, where you can either patch up the old body work and salvage the good or you just have the lot done in one hit.

Personally if it was my house and I could afford to I'd have it re-wired before I did anything else. This way you can specify the whole install to suit your needs for now and maybe the future. You can get all the mess done and out of the way. You are also safe in the knowledge that the install will likely last most of your life (assuming you chose to live there for that long) but even so it, also adds value to the property and most importantly you can sleep at night knowing that you and your family are safe.

If money is tight and it is possible I'd probably have the work done in stages. This is a pain and will cost you more but at least it takes the pressure off getting all the finances in place in one go. If you really want to save money then the only option is to just get done what is essentially required to make the existing install safe and up to date (assuming this is an option).

At the end of the day as the home owner its your choice. My advise - get a couple of quotes in with a couple of options and then make decision.

 

[Yung]

Sometimes it can be a personal call when deciding whether to go the full hog. As the folks have already mentioned, to make a clear judgement on the state of and installation requires a site visit and a proper inspection. It could be the case that it is more economical in the long run to just re-wire. It can be a bit like fixing up an old car, where you can either patch up the old body work and salvage the good or you just have the lot done in one hit.

Personally if it was my house and I could afford to I'd have it re-wired before I did anything else. This way you can specify the whole install to suit your needs for now and maybe the future. You can get all the mess done and out of the way. You are also safe in the knowledge that the install will likely last most of your life (assuming you chose to live there for that long) but even so it, also adds value to the property and most importantly you can sleep at night knowing that you and your family are safe.

If money is tight and it is possible I'd probably have the work done in stages. This is a pain and will cost you more but at least it takes the pressure off getting all the finances in place in one go. If you really want to save money then the only option is to just get done what is essentially required to make the existing install safe and up to date (assuming this is an option).

At the end of the day as the home owner its your choice. My advise - get a couple of quotes in with a couple of options and then make decision.

I am not so keen on aesthetics of the house due to my budget. If I did decide to go full hog - Is it possible to do this without ripping the kitchen and bathroom apart? I mean full rewire but not have to fork out money on kitchen and bathroom till another time. I ask because I was told if I am doing a rewire, I should just start all over again. Rewire it all, I can manage to do that. But to get a new kitchen and bathroom cos of full rewire....no funds for that.

 

[Midwest]

Honestly, all I want is a house that is electrically up-to-date/safe for me and my family. It is the electrician who is suggesting a full rewire.
I am on a tight budget and I'll rather the house be electrically safe and have no paint on the walls. Although, not waste money that I don't have.

Wow, wish my customers were like you. Most of mine are just concerned about their new kitchens & bathrooms.

My house was built in 1989, I wouldn't really need to test to say it doesn't need rewiring. That said, it seems most manufacturers only give a life span of twenty years for their pvc sheathed cables. Think they are rather cautious. If your house hasn't been subjected to DIY alterations, then as others have said perhaps a partial rewire, using the good bits.

It's your money, so do what you feel most comfortable with.

 

[Midwest]

I am not so keen on aesthetics of the house due to my budget. If I did decide to go full hog - Is it possible to do this without ripping the kitchen and bathroom apart? I mean full rewire but not have to fork out money on kitchen and bathroom till another time. I ask because I was told if I am doing a rewire, I should just start all over again. Rewire it all, I can manage to do that. But to get a new kitchen and bathroom cos of full rewire....no funds for that.

You should have a chat with your electrician. Its worth keeping in mind the kitchen will be altered in due course, and allow for some spare flexibility in cables. Not sure you would need that in a bathroom, which is basically lighting and perhaps a cable for a electric shower or shower pump, perhaps dual fuel towel radiator. There's only so much that can go in a bathroom, electrics wise?

 

[westward10]

Alarm bells should always ring when the content of the Report only makes reference to absence of rcd protection. This instantly tells me a thorough inspection has not taken place and whether you pay £20 or £200, NICEIC or no NICEIC you are entitled to thorough job. Unfortunately there is a band of people out there undertaking EICRs who are not competent to do so and hence there view on an installation stretches no further than looking for additional rcd protection and consumer units with metal enclosures.

 

[DPG]

I'd be amazed if 25 year old T&E failed any tests. Unless it had been nailed through somwhere of course! But as above, it depends on what needs adding/moving etc. as to the extent of what work is actally needed. Get a 2nd opinion from someone on here.

 

[buzzlightyear]

did he look like this fellow!

 

[David M]

As Midwest said ^^^^^

If I was quoting for you then I would consider all options and advise on what is best for you. I have done re-wires where the client has had a tight budget to work with. Rather than cutting corners we agreed to have a thorough job done over a period of time as & when finances were available. Some circumstance may allow you to have certain rooms done at later dates.Its not ideal and can be a pain for both the client and the electrician. As I said it will cost you more in the long run, but may fit in with your requirements.

A decent electrician will take a look at the job in hand and will be able to offer you advise on what you can and can't do with your electrical installation.

 

[Octopus]

The only enemies of 25 year old wiring are:

DIYers
Rodents
Water

 

[Yung]

This thread alone has given me more insight into home wiring than all the googling that I have done for weeks! Thank you all so very much

 

[Yung]

did he look like this fellow!View attachment 37144

Yes but without the guns to make me feel at ease lol but I am grateful because now I know about this wonderful place and the professional people here.

 

[telectrix]

The only enemies of 25 year old wiring are:

DIYers
Rodents
Water
Electrical Trainee's


corrected that for you.

 

[DPG]

DIY rats with buckets of water are the worst.

 

[ED17]

What about DIY rats with buckets of water that have been on a 5 week course?

 

[NDG Elecs]

That EICR, the £120 paid for it and the location (presuming London) makes me smell a rat. A really big humongous rat at that! The limitations of the report are poor. It would take very little time to do the R2 tests for instance, and given the lack of Zs figures there is no effective knowledge as to whether the protective earth conductors are satisfactory.

The wording in the observations column will mean little to nothing to the average customer, and my guess is that it is like that on purpose, so the customer is left in the dark. It is extremely vague wording also with no particular reference to where the issues are found within the property.

I also think that the company that carried out this report are probably of the ilk that carry out cheap EICRs to then serve as an income generator for remedial works.

Not all electrical contractors are like this. I think you have been had on this occasion - sorry.

I would suggest getting the consumer unit changed and earthing/bonding upgraded, where by which you will get all the circuits tested. Going forward this will give you an idea of which, if any circuits are in need of rewiring. It will also mean new sockets etc can be added much more easily.

I would be looking for a new electrician, and I would show them the report and even your forum post (if they are interested to look!) Tell them your concerns and take it from there. There will be someone on here who should be able to help.

Good luck.

 

[sparkdog]

The report & the electrician are Unsatisfactory, not the wiring.

 

[Yung]

That EICR, the £120 paid for it and the location (presuming London) makes me smell a rat. A really big humongous rat at that! The limitations of the report are poor. It would take very little time to do the R2 tests for instance, and given the lack of Zs figures there is no effective knowledge as to whether the protective earth conductors are satisfactory.

The wording in the observations column will mean little to nothing to the average customer, and my guess is that it is like that on purpose, so the customer is left in the dark. It is extremely vague wording also with no particular reference to where the issues are found within the property.

I also think that the company that carried out this report are probably of the ilk that carry out cheap EICRs to then serve as an income generator for remedial works.

Not all electrical contractors are like this. I think you have been had on this occasion - sorry.

I would suggest getting the consumer unit changed and earthing/bonding upgraded, where by which you will get all the circuits tested. Going forward this will give you an idea of which, if any circuits are in need of rewiring. It will also mean new sockets etc can be added much more easily.

I would be looking for a new electrician, and I would show them the report and even your forum post (if they are interested to look!) Tell them your concerns and take it from there. There will be someone on here who should be able to help.

Good luck.

Thank you!!! Sparkie30 has agreed to have a look by weekend. Maybe I'll be able to do what is electrically necessary and still have some money left for a coat of paint. Happy days

 

[DPG]

Sounds good. Let us know the outcome. Hope all goes well for you.

 

[7029 dave]

Hi, I have not even read the whole thread, you say the property is 29 years old.? PVC then if the installation has tested ok no need to rewire PVC has more or less life long span, would agree with a CU upgrade, good luck.

 

[Wxmspark]

That Report is a classic example of someone who should not be doing EICRs.

Yep agreed

 

[Wxmspark]

As for the kitchen/bathroom - if the rewire is the best way forward- you should be able to kerp the kitchen/bathroom as they are (subject to satisfactory test results) and just run new legs to rooms & leave trill your ready to start them

 

[Eckaslike]

Get another electrician to check & get another report, I often come across houses that still have rewireable fuses & no RCCD installed which dosnt mean that it is unsafe.