New Consumer unit without any certification

[alan8901]

Hi All,
I am looking to sell my late fathers house and a bit concerned by the lack of certificates for recent (ish) electrical work. A new consumer unit was installed about 3-5 years ago and there is no paperwork with it.

I suspect that the work wasn't registered anywhere, so i reckon not done properly.

I want to get an electrician in to look at it, but should i be asking her/him to replace the consumer unit and carry out an electrical safety test? What kind of tests should I be asking for?

The house does have a mixture of red/black and brown/blue wiring so a bit worried that i might have to get the whole thing re-wired.

Thanks
Alan

 

[Spoon]

I want to get an electrician in to look at it, but should i be asking her/him to replace the consumer unit and carry out an electrical safety test? What kind of tests should I be asking for?

The house does have a mixture of red/black and brown/blue wiring so a bit worried that i might have to get the whole thing re-wired.

If the electrics are fine then there is no need for a new CU or to have it re-wired.

 

[KEV 1 N]

To be fair, it looks like a tidy job!
For peace of mind get a local registered electrician to carry out an Electrical Installation Condition Report (EICR) and that will determine whether there’s any issues.

 

[telectrix]

what he said ^^^^^^. get a report done, depending on the extent of the inspection test, expect to pay between £150 and £250. this will highlight any problems. then any remedial work can be done.

 

[Midwest]

You could check your local building control web site, see if a compliance certificate was issued. If the installer had done that, I suspect the work would of been done with the appropriate certification.

As regards, the sale. You could wait and see what your solicitor and vendors solicitor request, before parting with your cash.

 

[alan8901]

Thanks all for the advice - much appreciated! I'll get an electrician in to carry out a an EICR and go from there.
I've had a quick look on my local building control website, but cannot find where to search for compliance certs, so i'll give them a call tomorrow.
If, as i suspect, there are no certs does that cause an issue when selling? Or will getting any defects sorted by a qualified electrician and getting an EICR cover the house?

 

[Midwest]

I would hold fire about ringing them, if the work has not be notified your LBC may ask for a regularisation certificate; the fee currently charged by my LBC is £600!

On my local council web site, it is;

Building Control > View Applications > Simple Search > click property tab, enter property address > Select Address > click property history tab, then view Building Control Applications. Should reveal Replacement Consumer Unit, if it had been notified.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Given you are looking to sell the house, you could just ask the solicitor handling the transfer to obtain a indemnity policy, This will cover the buyer in the event it doesn't comply or has not paperwork etc..
You can quite legitimately put on the forms you do not know as you inherited the house, worse case is you will need an indemnity policy for around £100. Might work out cheaper than an EICR.
Thing is if you get a EICR and it doesn't comply it could be used by the buyer to knock the price down. You would have the issue of giving the eicr to the buyers with possible issues, you are then in a position where you cant get a indemnity policy if you know it doesnt comply due to false representations for the policy etc..., so keep it simple do nothing and let buyers decide via there solicitor if they want an indemnity policy.
But looking at your image that looks a pretty tidy job, would be surprised if a dodgy electrician put that much time and effort in and then didnt do the paperwork.

 

[Midwest]

Personally, I wouldn't ask my solicitor to do anything, they charge you £***, just to reply to a phone call!

If you haven't certificates etc, just sit tight and see what transpires, its 'buyer beware'. The house is there for them to view, if they send in a surveyor, that's when the thorny issue 'may' arise. After that, is about negotiations on the way forward for the sale.

 

[Toneyz]

Given you are looking to sell the house, you could just ask the solicitor handling the transfer to obtain a indemnity policy, This will cover the buyer in the event it doesn't comply or has not paperwork etc..
You can quite legitimately put on the forms you do not know as you inherited the house, worse case is you will need an indemnity policy for around £100. Might work out cheaper than an EICR.
Thing is if you get a EICR and it doesn't comply it could be used by the buyer to knock the price down. You would have the issue of giving the eicr to the buyers with possible issues, you are then in a position where you cant get a indemnity policy if you know it doesnt comply due to false representations for the policy etc..., so keep it simple do nothing and let buyers decide via there solicitor if they want an indemnity policy.
But looking at your image that looks a pretty tidy job, would be surprised if a dodgy electrician put that much time and effort in and then didnt do the paperwork.

Got to agree with Gavin there it does look a good job.

 

[The Ghost]

Usually building control is not viewable within the public domain so you may draw a blank there. Odds are that it was an NICEIC contractor that did the work. You can check with them to see if they hold a cert. Do you have no receipts (maybe bank statement showing who was paid?) for the work? If so can you ask the contractor that did it for a copy of the cert? I agree with above it is a tidy job as it goes and the likliehood of no cert. is low so there is one out there it is just a bit of detective work.

 

[Midwest]

Usually building control is not viewable within the public domain so you may draw a blank there. Odds are that it was an NICEIC contractor that did the work. You can check with them to see if they hold a cert. Do you have no receipts (maybe bank statement showing who was paid?) for the work? If so can you ask the contractor that did it for a copy of the cert? I agree with above it is a tidy job as it goes and the likliehood of no cert. is low so there is one out there it is just a bit of detective work.

It is within the public domain, like any planning applications; its a simple search.

 

[mhar]

Don't see that it will make much difference but when the DNO install an REC2S isolator, the supply comes in the top which they can then seal so the customer only has access to the outgoing (isolatable) terminals. In other words it looks upside down to me!
Also is that tape being used for conductor identification or has the sheath been removed?

 

[Octopus]

Odds are that it was an NICEIC contractor that did the work.

Why?

 

[Ian1981]

It’s a Double pole isolator so whether the supply is in the top or bottom it won’t make any difference and the seal can be placed anywhere on the cover terminals to prevent removal by non authorised persons.

 

[Toneyz]

Don't see that it will make much difference but when the DNO install an REC2S isolator, the supply comes in the top which they can then seal so the customer only has access to the outgoing (isolatable) terminals. In other words it looks upside down to me!
Also is that tape being used for conductor identification or has the sheath been removed?

Looks to me as tape.

 

[Amp David]

NICEIC Online Certification: Notification Check - http://www.checkmynotification.com/

 

[The Ghost]

Why?

Because 9 out of 10 vans I see are NICEIC badged

 

[The Ghost]

like any planning applications

It is not a planning application it is a building control submission which is not in the public domain there is a difference.

 

[Octopus]

Because 9 out of 10 vans I see are NICEIC badged

Fair comment ....... but

out of 4 mates and myself, only 1 has a logo'ed vehicle and hes with Elecsa ...

 

[Midwest]

It is not a planning application it is a building control submission which is not in the public domain there is a difference.

They are still viewable by the public, try it yourself.

 

[The Ghost]

try it yourself

I have and I can't don't know if it is just Bristol or what.

 

[Wilko]

I have and I can't don't know if it is just Bristol or what.

Ha - they've sussed its you V !

 

[Spoon]

Ha - they've sussed its you V !

V? Is he an alien lizard??

 

[Des 56]

Involving building control for a useless notification process
You have 2 choices

The cost of a eicr that will generally satisfy a solicitor or
The cost of a eicr with added and useless notification charges

You pays your money,you take your pick

 

[The Ghost]

The mixed colours are not a problem. You have the notice required by regulations to state the mixed colours are present. This is to prevent experienced electricians with 20 to 50 years experience becoming inexplicably disorientated and confused when happening on old and the newer "harmonised" colours. They read the notice and hey presto!

 

[The Ghost]

The house does have a mixture of red/black and brown/blue wiring so a bit worried that i might have to get the whole thing re-wired.

Re the above.

 

[Paul_Williams]

Mr cynical here ... a bit of a lack of forethought on this consumer unit (CU) install.

The conduit drop looks like it probably enters the top surface of the CU therefore the CU is probably mounted directly on the ply behind it rather than on battens, my preference for insulated pre-amendment Amendment 3 CUs.

So, if the above observation is true, the main tails will almost certainly enter through the top surface of the CU and in all likelihood the top surface will fail to meet the required IP rating.

Bearing in mind the length of the main tails coming up from below via the isolator, why wouldn't you take the main tails in through the bottom, or even the side of the CU where IP requirements are more forgiving.

Additional observations which make me wonder how much thought went into this are; whilst the RCDs/MCBs in CU have been configured to allow one circuit to be installed on an RCBO beside the main switch, why wouldn't you leave at least one additional spare way beside this RCBO when you consider there are a total of 6 other spare ways.

I am pleased the installer has allowed at least 25% of the capacity in the CU to remain available for future additions etc. but why oh why wouldn't you configure a 15 useable way CU apparently running 9 circuits to have say 2 non RCD protected ways beside the main switch, then one RCD running 6 ways with the other RCD running 7 ways, or even 3 non RCD protected ways and 6 ways on each RCD.

Sure, the picture looks nice and potentially shows what may be a good install but, look again, and I/you can see things that make me/you wonder just how good an install it might actually be.

An indemnity policy might be cheaper, but an EICR from a professional electrician could be money well spent.

You will typically get what you pay for with an EICR, too many electrical cowboys, sorry contractors, will give you an EICR for less than three figures as they expect their ‘electricians’ to carry out 3 or even 4 inspections in a day, but imho they are not worth the paper they are printed on.

For an installation with 9 circuits an EICR even limited to start at 25% of all points on all circuits should take at least half a day if done properly, add that to time off site collating/adding the pictures of the observations found into the report.

If you don’t get pictures of any observations made and the report doesn’t include a list of the electrical points inspected, it isn’t worth paying for.

Get a professional inspection that is properly documented and sure anyone giving you such a report will be charging double, triple, possibly quadruple what the 3 to 4 EICRs a day cowboys will charge. But, you should get an infinitely more valid EICR that is worth significantly more than the paper it is printed on.

Just my humble opinion, but we should all be able to express our opinion, yours may differ from mine, but it doesn’t make either more/less valid than the other.