Non combustible switchgear

[WallaceP]

hey guys, I had a quick search but couldn’t find any posts about this.
I recently done an inspection on a domestic property and found the electrical meter was outside in a service cabinet and the fuseboard was inside more than 5m away. I recommended installed a fused disconnector at the meter to comply with regulations and also for convenience if the fuseboard had to be isolated.
I would say this should be non combustible but I still see a lot of the plastic styles of these switches available. Such as LEMSF100.
Is it possible for this to be installed as it is outside the home? I think I would rather install a metal one anyway but curious to hear your opinion on the matter

 

[Pete999]

Install the Plastic isolator in the Meter cabinet, that's non combustible isn't it? that's my opinion.

 

[Midwest]

We've debated this subject before; some suggest a switch fuse is not similar switchgear assembly, some suggest a meter box (plastic)flushed into an outside wall is not within a domestic premise.

When I was in a scheme, I did seek guidance from their technical, and the response was that the designer would have to make that assessment, as whether 421.1.201 applied in these circumstances.

So you can ask the question, and would probably get a lot of responses that it doesn't, but its for you to decide.

 

[Pete999]

We've debated this subject before; some suggest a switch fuse is not similar switchgear assembly, some suggest a meter box (plastic)flushed into an outside wall is not within a domestic premise.

When I was in a scheme, I did seek guidance from their technical, and the response was that the designer would have to make that assessment, as whether 421.1.201 applied in these circumstances.

So you can ask the question, and would probably get a lot of responses that it doesn't, but its for you to decide.

So in a nut shell the Scheme couldn't / didn't offer advice because they didn't know the answer, left the decision up to the installer, Buck passing of the highest order, and you pay hard earned dosh to belong to a Scheme, yes it's old, I agree, but true non the less.

 

[Midwest]

So in a nut shell the Scheme couldn't / didn't offer advice because they didn't know the answer, left the decision up to the installer, Buck passing of the highest order, and you pay hard earned dosh to belong to a Scheme, yes it's old, I agree, but true non the less.

Well, its kinda of a bit vague, 421.1.201. If the grown ups at the IET etc, want to make things clear as mud, perhaps you should lay the blame at their door.

 

[Ian1981]

It’s debatable whether you should even fit any consumers switchgear in the DNO’s meter cabinet as some may prohibit it

 

[davesparks]

You shouldn't fit any metal in a meter cabinet as earthed metalwork increases the hazards for DNO operatives who work live in the cabinets.

 

[davesparks]

It’s debatable whether you should even fit any consumers switchgear in the DNO’s meter cabinet as some may prohibit it

But the meter cabinet isn't the DNO's property, it belongs to the consumer.

 

[Ian1981]

You shouldn't fit any metal in a meter cabinet as earthed metalwork increases the hazards for DNO operatives who work live in the cabinets.

Is that a ESQCR regulation Dave or just basic common sense?

 

[davesparks]

Is that a ESQCR regulation Dave or just basic common sense?

As far as I know it comes from mocopa

 

[Ian1981]

But the meter cabinet isn't the DNO's property, it belongs to the consumer.

Can’t speak for them all Dave but working on some new builds in Sheffield around 3 years ago, we had to get the builder to install a separate meter cabinet to house the switch fuse isolator as the DNO refused to allow it in along side their metering equipment.
Or rather the metering company refused as it’s their equipment so we complied with their wishes

 

[Nigel]

Switch fuses are similar switchgear. Anyone saying anything different is simply bonkers.

As for a meter cabinet fixed to the outside wall not being within a dwelling well.........

 

[davesparks]

Can’t speak for them all Dave but working on some new builds in Sheffield around 3 years ago, we had to get the builder to install a separate meter cabinet to house the switch fuse isolator as the DNO refused to allow it in along side their metering equipment.
Or rather the metering company refused as it’s their equipment so we complied with their wishes

Interesting, and I'm sure you could have argued the point if you wanted to but would probably turn out to be more hassle than it's worth.

The simple way to look at it is that the consumer has buy the meter box outright therfore it belongs to them.

 

[Ian1981]

Interesting, and I'm sure you could have argued the point if you wanted to but would probably turn out to be more hassle than it's worth.

The simple way to look at it is that the consumer has buy the meter box outright therfore it belongs to them.

Totally agree.
However arguing the case with the builder after the metering company has told them we can’t utilise the cabinet was futile.

 

[davesparks]

Totally agree.
However arguing the case with the builder after the metering company has told them we can’t utilise the cabinet was futile.

I assume the DNO had no issue with it and fitted the supply on?

 

[Ian1981]

The DNO just fit the head and leave the fuse on top ready for the meter lads.
Once the DNO have done their bit then they are not seen again.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The requirement in BS7671 regarding non-combustible Consumer Units and similar switchgear, requires the assembly to be manufactured in accordance with BS EN 61439-3.
Switchfuses are manufactured in accordance with BS EN 60947-3.

 

[Ian1981]

The requirement in BS7671 regarding non-combustible Consumer Units and similar switchgear, requires the assembly to be manufactured in accordance with BS EN 61439-3.
Switchfuses are manufactured in accordance with BS EN 60947-3.

A fair point

 

[Midwest]

Here we go again. Battle of the Titans, or tight arse's.

Re the ownership of meter boxes, course it belongs to the homeowner @davesparks, but if you want electrically in your pad, you have to follow their rules, whatever they might be.

I'm with @essex not with @spinlondon, switch fuse is similar switch gear assembly.

I'll pick up the pieces in the morning.

 

[Nigel]

The requirement in BS7671 regarding non-combustible Consumer Units and similar switchgear, requires the assembly to be manufactured in accordance with BS EN 61439-3.
Switchfuses are manufactured in accordance with BS EN 60947-3.

The two Standards are not exclusive.

https://www.electrium.co.uk/media/20151123152755_0_Wylex Domestic Switch Fuse Unit.pdf

 

[Deleted member 26818]

No they’re not exclusive, anything can comply with more than one Standard.
However, in order to comply with BS7671, the Switchfuse must comply with the Standard which relates to Switchfuses, not the one which relates to Consumer Units.

 

[Midwest]

That was pretty tame. In a domestic setting, in a scenario where a A3 CU is installed, doesn’t make sense to me that if a switch fuse was installed next to it, that could have a plastic enclosure, and comply.

Suppose any guidance, might be again that the designer would have to carry out that risk assessment or judgement.