Outdoor SWA Distribution Circuit; Can it be clipped to a FENCE?

[pushrod]

I took it as a spoof

 

[PC Electrics]

There is a simple rule with regulations:
unless the regulation specifically disallows something, then it is allowed.

Neither is it a requirement that the swa must be buried if it isn't fixed to a wall. You could, if you deem fit, simply lay the swa along the ground at the base of the fence. This addresses the issue of the fence blowing away and taking the cable with it, without the expense of burial. It does of course, bring it's own issues. It is however an option open to you if you think the conditions are right.

To dismiss fixing swa to any fence under all conditions would be wrong. So would fixing it to any old scanky bit of woodwork. Only you can see the conditions at the installation and you must judge what is right for those conditions.

As for Grants post - blatent scaremongering of the worst kind.

 

[Colonel Hathi]

This is getting a little heated isn't it
The overall position seems to be that BS7671 does not state that wiring must be attached to a permanent structure (?)
The NICEIC guidance is clearly that it should be attached to a permanent structure - and that a timber fence isn't a permanent structure (?)
The general view that people have expressed here is that one needs to take a decision individually based on "external influences" and the condition and ownership of whatever you are thinking of attaching to (?)

I do not have the years of experience that I am sure many of you guys do - so I tend to err always on the side of following the NICEIC - or the safest option. Sometimes that may be a bit "over the top" - so I ask you chaps!

Seriously, thanks for all the responses.
Based on what you chaps have advised, I think I will always advise that the trench or wall are the best options and fully compliant with NICEIC advice - but that based on a site survey and risk assessment it may be possible to attach to solid fencing.

I am just worried that sometimes people do seem to just want to hear the cheapest option - leaving me at risk if things then go wrong later.

I am sure the cleint isn't going to stand up in Cort and say "Yes your Honour he burned down my house and electrocuted my cat - but its ok because he saved me 50 quid"

I think I may actually let this particualr job go anyway. The chap received honest advice from me in the first place, then went off and spoke to another electrician - but didn't have the decency to come back to me with the query (I heard it from a third party)

Thanks again

CH

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I took it as a spoof

I didnt...(and still dont)..but if it was I apologise for my reply.

 

[High Tower]

The NICEIC do this a lot, and although they like to think they do, theNICEIC do not write the regs, it's not the first time that the BRB and their guides have differed

 

[jeremy]

Does anyone know of a good barrister? I've laid SWA on the ground before and now fear I may be sued by the Association for Rescuing Squirrels Entirely. I don't have hundreds of thousands of pounds. What should I do?

 

[sparks1234]

Well I think Grant got just what he wanted, to stir it up and wind people up by talking a load of cobblers.

 

[pushrod]

Does anyone know of a good barrister? I've laid SWA on the ground before and now fear I may be sued by the Association for Rescuing Squirrels Entirely. I don't have hundreds of thousands of pounds. What should I do?

LOL mmm nasty - being had by the ARSE

 

[Deleted member 9648]

It's not A.R.S.E you need to worry about...it's the Forthright Union of Cable Operatives Fixing to Fences you want to avoid upsetting.

 

[SMB]

Good god.

I thought we were spose to be on eachothers side.

Grant, your post was scare-mongering. Really ridiculous. Awful.

Attaching an swa to a secure fence is not a problem in my book.

 

[Colonel Hathi]

Hi SMB
Clearly a lot pf people disagree with Grantr about always using a trench.
Don't you agree though that there are customers who will - as Grantr says - always look just for the easiest/cheapest route; and leave the electrician who obliges them liable if anything later goes wrong?
In the case I was asking about, the client didn't even come back to me to discuss options; I suspect he simply went for the electrician who told him what he wanted to hear.
I should stress also that in suggesting that a trench was needed, I wasn't trying to "talk up the job" - I wasn't going to dig the trench myself anyway - it made no financial difference to me.
I know this will not be a popular suggestion but here goes ...
Why not add a special locations section to the regs at some point in the future for Gardens and/or supplies to outbuildings?
I know many people will not want to add even more stuff to the regs - but loads of people are adding power to gardens for lights, outbuildings etc and the garden is surely one of the areas of highest risk.

What do you think?

 

[SMB]

Hi.
I do agree that people want the cheapest route possible.
Safety is the important issue here.
If the fence is in sound condition then clipping a swa to it should be fine.
but........
fences do rot.
errrmm....
not many swa cables that are buried in gardens are correctly covered.
food for thought.

 

[andyb]

fences do rot.
errrmm....

So do wooden sheds,

 

[adam.h]

If the customer was going to dig the trench then what's to say you lost the work just over that factor? Are they having the garden re-done so are able to have a trench dug easily anyway?

I have seen many swa's clipped to fences along the lower beams as well as laid along the ground along the fence. I have also clipped swa to fences before. Albeit they have all been new fences and as others have said I also wouldn't do it on a run down or even a new flimsly fence.
If clipping to a fence rcd the cable as well.

There are many garden lights, like the spike spot lights that have a rubber flex that lays on the ground in flower beds, or if you use underground junction boxes you still have some degree of rubber flex on show a dog, goat, child or squirrel could chew

 

[Jamie1990]

i've done it before, see no problem with it at all, as long as it looks neat and the customer is happy.

 

[wade88]

I took it as a spoof

i thought the dramatic, "you will go to jail and be done in, sued for millions, buggered by large hairy men, be struck down by lighting, eaten by pirahnas etc" was quite funny! Thats true emphasis of a point...i like it

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Many building sites across the country have lights on temporary exterior fences.
Most are wooden, but some of the fences are the metal mesh held up by concrete block type.

 

[FAA Greenie]

I quoted on a fairly big job recently. After the quote was accepted the client asked me if i could wire up his new electric front gates. 'should be easy, there is already a power supply down there' he told me. When i started the job, i had a look for this power supply. It was 1.5mm T&E run about 50M down his picket fence to 3 outhouses supplying 5 lights and 3 twin sockets. I told him i would quote seperately for the supply to the gates and perhaps a new supply to his outhouses!

 

[Steve Wright]

On my view when you design an installation you decide what cable to use, You would also ensure the appropriate installation method is used, consider the best method for the life of the installation. The fence has a life much less than your installation by nature of the material it's made from. if you bury or catenary it is likely to last for the life of the installation. Pinning on Walls is more robust as long as you have assessed the probability of physical damage.

 

[Farmelectrics]

its ok to clip to fence done it myself clipped direct method thats quoated in bs 7671