Part P & the 17th Edition.

[PJE]

Hi malcolmsanford,

Many thanks for your quick reply. Have had a look at the link you supplied but having read the reviews it appears there is now an updated version of this.

One review read as follows:

Excellent book, however it is out of date, I spent 19 quid on this only to find out that the updated version is also for sale

Electrician's Guide to the Building Regulations: Pt. P Wiring Regulations : Pt. P Wiring Regulations: Amazon.co.uk: Paul Cook: Books

The original version should be removed from Amazon & I should get the update free !

So I will definitely look into this.

One thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post was that having read through all this thread, it appears if you want to be responsible for signing your own work off you need to be registered with one of the electrical organisations like NICEIC.

Does anyone have any recommendations to which one is the best to go with as I know organisations like these have a tendency to be over officious probably to justify the job they are supposed to do.

Anyway once again many thanks for your help.

Regards,

Phil.

 

[oldie]

In Canada you apply for a permit before you begin work. The "City" send out the Inspector before you even start! Then he calls back to look at a "rough in" if all is good you get the ok to cover up and call him back for final test. Sounds a lot of hastle but it works well and lots of support from the inspector who does actually want it to move at your pace just so long as you are doing it right! Homeowners do DIY elecrical but hey! when they are selling they must report everything and the lawers love it!!

 

[Bonfireman]

Hi there.

I need to get my 17th edition certificate. Can I do the exam without the course? Studying at home by myself?

I know it's much better take te course but now I'm short of money and really need this certificate. Some information or link may help.

Thank you very much.

 

[Astro800]

Yes it's true! whether it will get thrown or or not is another thing. I have it straight from the horses mouth. Someone who is part of the governing body & writes the regulations has told me that part P is going to be put before the government, to make it more difficult to be registered.

Within the next year or so, you will have to have qualified with the full City & Guilds 4 year course. So if you are going to take part P, do it now!

 

[Astro800]

The system we are going to have in Europe, will be similar to the rules & regulations that they have in Australia.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Yes it's true! whether it will get thrown or or not is another thing. I have it straight from the horses mouth. Someone who is part of the governing body & writes the regulations has told me that part P is going to be put before the government, to make it more difficult to be registered.

Within the next year or so, you will have to have qualified with the full City & Guilds 4 year course. So if you are going to take part P, do it now!

Think the NICEC/NAPIT/ELECSA might have an input on that one

 

[Astro800]

It's NICEC/NAPIT/ELECSA that are involved in the process. EU directive & the Brussels Brigade.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh that is going to kill the cash cow then

 

[Astro800]

We seem to have gone from virtually no statutory requirement, to over regulation.
It's isn't even at the proposal stage yet, so It could be several years.

Something needed doing years ago, because sparkies just started working for themselves & quite a few were bodgers, plumbers, handy men & DIY-ers. All you needed to do was drop a simple completion form in to your regional electricity board & that was it.

 

[Astro800]

There is talk of it on here http://www.*****************forum.co.uk/electrician-talk-forum/14639-part-p-changes-possibly.html

This seems to be all speculation, but as I said, I heard it straight from the horses mouth, but he didn't elaborate on it.

 

[Astro800]

The missing text is talk (dot) electrician It won't allow the link to be displayed.

 

[malcolmsanford]

To be honest Astro as well as tightening up the qualification criteria IMO they should also be trying to

1 Educate the public more into why the public themselves should be be doing, The authorities have successfully educated the same public about "Gas Safe" and how only registered fitters should be used, surely the same can and should be done for Part P

2. More teeth when it comes to discovering work that as not been carried out to Part P. I remember a prosecution in London a year or 2 back, when a "Sparks" and I use the term loosely, was actually prosecuted for poor workman ship, but literally got off with a fine

3 Carrying on the Education theme, and local councils. Most seem to have very little grasp of the statutory regulations and in all honesty care even less.

I was never a lover of Part P as it is, but it is here and if it was intended to bring some sort of standard to our industry it has dismally failed. It has created a 2 tier industry with very poorly qualified people being able to ply our trade, legally!!! Long before this silliness there was, and always will be the "Dave down the pub" who knows a bit, but what Part P has done is give licence to any cook, baker, or candlestick maker, that as a few quid to believe that in 5 weeks they can be trained and let loose in our industry.

I don't blame them, I blame the system that Part P as created, and it's the customer that eventually will be the worse for it, and our industry

 

[Astro800]

I think you've just nailed it with that, I couldn't have put it better. But will 4 years on a course make it any better I wonder? If Tom, Dig & Harry/Harriet have spent the whole of their 4 years on the dole. They my be "Qualified", but "Competent"? I've seen the same with so called Site Managers. Arse & Elbow come to mind.

Part P was supposed to define a competent person. In only few days, not a chance! I'm surprised that it's allowed to be taught like that.

 

[Astro800]

What do you mean what has part p got to do with the taxman?

A lot of certified work gets cross referenced against tax records. That's how the CORGI registered Central Heating Engineers got nailed a few years ago!

 

[MKS]

Part P could work so much better if those sitting in glass houses with a half full glass realise it is actually half empty!!! I despise Electrical Trainee, call me whatever, but myself did not even know what a consumer was until I had mastered the art of chopping out, chasing, assembling tray, ladder, pulling in swa, more chopping, sweeping, tea making, every poo job going before i even held a mcb and then comes some tinker, tailor, candlestick maker and becomes a spark by doing some domestic installer course!!! I don't know just gets my back up!!!

 

[MKS]

My wife calls me Meldrew for some reason!

 

[madmac]

Part P is a catastrophic failure and needs to be got rid of with immediate effect!!!
All the inspection bodies should be rounded up and closed down also!!!
The JIB/SJIB's need to be given the recognition from Govt. that they should have!!!
Approved Colleges should be the only route to training apprentices via the JIB/SJIB!!!
And every electrician in Britain needs to join the union and put past grievances to bed for the better of the whole industry!!!
By doing these simple things, we could get back to the proper standards of training and quality workmanship, once taken for granted!!!
If you've got something positive to say and want to help build the industry for the future, join Unite the Union and get involved by coming to your nearest meeting and make the change happen!!!
DIVIDED WE BEG, UNITED WE BARGAIN!!!

 

[kung]

To be honest i've seen some real crap not so much from domestic installers but from diyers ! the fact that stores can sell electrical items to the public and shops as such as B& (well u know) can and some do tell the customer how to install it with no word about any regs ! not just part p is a joke that will never end ! i went to see a job at a mates house who is a tennant but what i saw was by far the worst electrical installs i've ever seen ! im talking carrier bags for ip rating sockets hanging off the wall with live conductors showing im talking 27 code 1's in the 1st 15mins ! and he's got kids ! i strongly advised him etc etc believe me a jap on a kamikaze mission couldnt do that much damage ! we see this sort of crap time and time again and no regs will stop it ! if people take the chance in an unregistered or even an unqualified spark to do their work or do it themselves etc then thats their choice BUT this is NOT helped with part p crap allowing anyone to do most things anyway ! so most people believe what anyone says ! part p has failed as said BIG TIME not that anything worked before to stop shoddy work part p is just for us ! a little gift from them to us in return for our cash which we have too much of ! or thats what they believe ! we are screwed yet again ! the domestic market is shot to sh im sticking to ind/com and screw part p !!!!!!!! id like to see pats patios take that work from me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[professional]

Part P is a catastrophic failure and needs to be got rid of with immediate effect!!!
All the inspection bodies should be rounded up and closed down also!!!
The JIB/SJIB's need to be given the recognition from Govt. that they should have!!!
Approved Colleges should be the only route to training apprentices via the JIB/SJIB!!!
And every electrician in Britain needs to join the union and put past grievances to bed for the better of the whole industry!!!
By doing these simple things, we could get back to the proper standards of training and quality workmanship, once taken for granted!!!
If you've got something positive to say and want to help build the industry for the future, join Unite the Union and get involved by coming to your nearest meeting and make the change happen!!!
DIVIDED WE BEG, UNITED WE BARGAIN!!!

You`d be amazed at what UNITE Union have done to undermine the electrical trade - and right under the noses of their own members .... ask your union rep what has been said on your behalf at the SECRET meetings that they attend ....

 

[Arnold Layne]

I am sorry Mac because you are not going to like what I say but nevertheless I will say it, despite the fact that I respect your loyalty to the Union and it does you credit. But who does the Union train? Who does the Union employ and since when is the Union the answer to the industry's problems? Certainly the Union has a part to play, but so do others. If everything was in the control of the Union why would there be the issues that there are?. The Union has presided over the JIB, which represents less that a third of the industry. The Union has the interface with the Agencies, which for some are a scourge, yet the Union carries on a relationship with them. The Union does not seem to have any type of effective relationship with the mobs and worse still, the Union seems to have lost the trust of the men. Less than 20% of the men that work for the mobs are the men who join the Union.. Don't blame the men! Don't go there! I have met employers who would make better shop stewards that the so called Union Reps. So before you make a call to arms for the men to join the Union it may be a good idea to sort the Union out, to ensure that the organisation which you are asking them to join can truly represent them. Don't get me wrong I appreciate your conviction, but you are not the Union. And we are responsible for what we urge our Brothers to do and we owe them some honesty.