Pre Payment meter at fault?

[leeuk]

Hi hope someone can give me some advice on what to do
I think I'm being overcharged according to my supplier
I'm using 6300 KWH a year costing me around £60 a month on electric

I have no electric heaters on its all gas no electric shower
all i have running is my pc 24/7 and tv on most hours i live in a one bed flat

I moved in 2008 and its been going on years I went out yesterday the only thing on was the Fridge and bt router it said i used 2.5kwh

here is a video of the meter

Can someone tell me how old this meter is

 

[leeuk]

I live in a block of flats btw

 

[Octopus]

Do you make sure you are being billed for actual readings ?or is the supplier using estimates ?

How do you heat your water?

I would suggest that you take weekly readings for a few weeks to see what you are using.

FWIW we use about 12kw per day and there are 4 of us

Is that a pre payment meter?

 

[James]

2.5kwh is the same as 250w for 10 hours.
Assuming you have only a fridge and a router on, that sounds somewhere between about right and a little high.
However if you have a number of forgotten devices plugged in it can add up.
Phone chargers, tv and monitor on standby, cordless phone, heating timer, immersion heater. To name a few.

Edit. You also said your pc is on 24/7 that could easily use that much on its own.

 

[Robson689]

Sounds excessive I pay £43 a month in summer and £63 a month in winter and that's in a 3 bed house

Prepayment meters do shaft you though

Edit: that's combined gas & electric btw

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Yes, it’s what is referred to as a Key meter.

 

[leeuk]

Hi thanks for the reply yes its a pre payment meter

24-May-2019 £ 15.00 (Credit) £ 1451.10 in Credit
16-May-2019 £ 15.00 (Credit) £ 1436.10 in Credit
10-May-2019 £ 10.00 (Credit) £ 1421.10 in Credit
04-May-2019 £ 10.00 (Credit) £ 1411.10 in Credit
24-Apr-2019 £ 10.00 (Credit) £ 1401.10 in Credit
19-Apr-2019 £ 20.00 (Credit) £ 1391.10 in Credit
07-Apr-2019 £ 20.00 (Credit) £ 1371.10 in Credit
02-Apr-2019 £ 10.00 (Credit) £ 1351.10 in Credit
21-Mar-2019 £ 20.00 (Credit) £ 1341.10 in Credit
14-Mar-2019 £ 10.00 (Credit) £ 1321.10 in Credit

Here are my topups with Scottish Power i gave them my readings on Friday they didnt bill me for 2 years

I looked at one of my bills in 2015 this was a actual reading bill which left me with £450 in credit i forgot about it since

And now I'm trying again to sort this out at my credit is going so fast on the meter

Gas is £600 for the year water is heated via gas I cant think of anything mayor Thats costing so much

 

[Octopus]

Also, lots of people forget how much lecky has gone up in the last 18 months

 

[leeuk]

2.5kwh is the same as 250w for 10 hours.
Assuming you have only a fridge and a router on, that sounds somewhere between about right and a little high.
However if you have a number of forgotten devices plugged in it can add up.
Phone chargers, tv and monitor on standby, cordless phone, heating timer, immersion heater. To name a few.

Edit. You also said your pc is on 24/7 that could easily use that much on its own.

Hi thanks for the reply I do not have any immersion heater

I dunno how I'm doing 20 kwh a day 6300 kwh a year

My nan lives on here own she has tv on 24/7 lights on she also has dryer going on most days and electric shower she only does 3000 kwh a year

 

[James]

You can Check if any hidden devices are using power by doing the following.

UNPLUG ( not just switch off) EVERYTHING
ensure that the heating is turned off at the mains switch next to boiler.
Unplug the fridge.

Write down the reading in KWh shown on meter
Note the time
Go to pub for a pint
Return in 1 hour
Write down reading in KWh
Compare.

 

[Midwest]

I do believe you can challenge your supplier, and ask them to prove their meter is functioning as it should. If you have doubts about your bill and how much fuel you are using, you should ask for this to be verified.

 

[James]

A simple pc will use if on 24h per day 2.5KWh

Desktop, gaming setup easy 3 times that on its own. (7.5KWh)

 

[Octopus]

Hi thanks for the reply yes its a pre payment meter

24-May-2019 £ 15.00 (Credit) £ 1451.10 in Credit
16-May-2019 £ 15.00 (Credit) £ 1436.10 in Credit
10-May-2019 £ 10.00 (Credit) £ 1421.10 in Credit
04-May-2019 £ 10.00 (Credit) £ 1411.10 in Credit
24-Apr-2019 £ 10.00 (Credit) £ 1401.10 in Credit
19-Apr-2019 £ 20.00 (Credit) £ 1391.10 in Credit
07-Apr-2019 £ 20.00 (Credit) £ 1371.10 in Credit
02-Apr-2019 £ 10.00 (Credit) £ 1351.10 in Credit
21-Mar-2019 £ 20.00 (Credit) £ 1341.10 in Credit
14-Mar-2019 £ 10.00 (Credit) £ 1321.10 in Credit

Here are my topups with Scottish Power i gave them my readings on Friday they didnt bill me for 2 years

I looked at one of my bills in 2015 this was a actual reading bill which left me with £450 in credit i forgot about it since

And now I'm trying again to sort this out at my credit is going so fast on the meter

Gas is £600 for the year water is heated via gas I cant think of anything mayor Thats costing so much

The fact they didn't bill you for 2 years isn't just their fault - you could have contacted them.

I don't understand why you are giving them money when you appear to be in credit?

This doesn't add up

 

[leeuk]

The fact they didn't bill you for 2 years isn't just their fault - you could have contacted them.

I don't understand why you are giving them money when you appear to be in credit?

This doesn't add up

its normal when you topup when they bill me they will take the credit away The use to send me bills but didnt for a few years

Strange they bill me fine every month on the gas

 

[Bobster]

A simple pc will use if on 24h per day 2.5KWh

Desktop, gaming setup easy 3 times that on its own. (7.5KWh)

Agree, if a PC is being left on 24/7 in my mind it isn't a basic model. You're not mining with it or server hosting?

Add on the other equipment round the house, TV, lights, chargers all the small parasitic loads. Your readings make sense to me.

 

[leeuk]

pc not a problem its 120 so 2.5 about right

I downloaded the scottish power App and the bill for 2018 it says £366
And the topup payments doesn't match the

monthly breakdowns

Here is up to date 2019 kwh usage

as you can see the topups dont match up with how much it costs

They have gave me a bill for £ 885.47 which was for the 2 years leaving £ 565.63 in Credit I asked them to go all the way back to 2008 when i moved in here


As i cant go back to 2008 and only 2016 i have had the same sort of setup only difference is was a tv I can not see how much i have topped up

i will post grapths you can see the spike in rise of kwh First is 2016 which i bet i made more than £20 top up a month so it will be interesting to see
Scottish power said i will soon be able to check my top ups for that year

 

[leeuk]

Does this make sense even on some of the letters sp saying 6600 khw for the year

I have even looked at some of my old estimated bill even one year in 2015 it says estimated bill for the year 13k khw lol

I believe i might be connected to another flat and I'm paying for that too??

I did a 24/7 check on the meter did about 6 kwh in 24 hours

 

[James]

I use this to monitor usage at home and have found it excellent.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008MYXEHW

you could compare readings over time with your electricity meter, they should be quite close but will never be exact matches for technical reasons.

shows current usage figure on an app on your phone, so you can see the effect of turning things on and off.

 

[Octopus]

You’ve lost me ........

 

[Octopus]

Does this make sense even on some of the letters sp saying 6600 khw for the year

I have even looked at some of my old estimated bill even one year in 2015 it says estimated bill for the year 13k khw lol

I believe i might be connected to another flat and I'm paying for that too??

I did a 24/7 check on the meter did about 6 kwh in 24 hours

Does the meter number on your bill tally with your meter?

 

[leeuk]

You’ve lost me ........

lol sorry if i have confused you but basically £10 Credit means i put £10 on my key bill said £28 i put on £60 so over paid most months

 

[leeuk]

Does the meter number on your bill tally with your meter?

I cant find that part i will have to wait for sp to let me download the latest bill to check

Edit Found that part yes it does match thanks

 

[Octopus]

Leeuk ... do you know the price per kWh and your daily standing charge?

 

[leeuk]

Leeuk ... do you know the price per kWh and your daily standing charge?

16.1kwh daily standing charge 28

looked at some of my old bills it did also say 13p kwh I'm sure my kwh
prices haven't changed on this meter never seen it off 16.1 kwh

Here is my bills that they said should cost.

But here are my top ups due to my credit running out. All too much

 

[telectrix]

20kwH per day eaquates to approx 4A per hour.or approx 12p/hour. our house averages that without any heavy appliances in use.

 

[James]

Does this make sense even on some of the letters sp saying 6600 khw for the year

I have even looked at some of my old estimated bill even one year in 2015 it says estimated bill for the year 13k khw lol

I believe i might be connected to another flat and I'm paying for that too??

I did a 24/7 check on the meter did about 6 kwh in 24 hours

6KWh per day seems reasonable to me for what you are using.
2 to 3 for pc
1 to 2 for fridge
boil kettle 3 times a day =0.5
watch tv for 3 hours =1.5
totals 5 to 7 KWh per day

plus cooking, ironing, lighting, and others.
6Kwh per day seems about right to me, would work out to be 2190 per year, or 182.5KWh per month
almost exactly the same as the guess made above.
p.s. the average electricity consumption in brussels is 2800KWh per year.
so congratulations you are doing better than the germans!!

 

[Octopus]

So from Feb - May you are using about 210 kwh per month ........ where does the 6000 kw figure come from?

Are they using Diane Abbots calculator?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I’m having a problem with Scotish Power myself.
Was with EON paying £72 per month and I did one of those compare the market/Uswitch things and SP came up as £58 per month.
Went up to £59 per month after about 4 months, let that slide.
Now they say I’m £260 in debit and want me to pay £80 per month.

 

[James]

Does this make sense even on some of the letters sp saying 6600 khw for the year

I have even looked at some of my old estimated bill even one year in 2015 it says estimated bill for the year 13k khw lol

I believe i might be connected to another flat and I'm paying for that too??

I did a 24/7 check on the meter did about 6 kwh in 24 hours

are you getting confused with the units?
it says estimated bill for the year 13k khw? or could it be
13 pence per KWh, this is what you are paying for electricity according to the bill data posted above.
not sure where 16.1 figure mentioned earlier is from.
but you are not being charged 16.1 pence per unit its 13 pence.

 

[Octopus]

My MIL is having fun with EON.

She has a duel fuel agreement and is in £700 credit ........... however its only in credit because they stopped charging her for her gas last September .

Eon have stated it may take 3 months to sort out .................FFS

 

[James]

I’m having a problem with Scotish Power myself.
Was with EON paying £72 per month and I did one of those compare the market/Uswitch things and SP came up as £58 per month.
Went up to £59 per month after about 4 months, let that slide.
Now they say I’m £260 in debit and want me to pay £80 per month.

standard salesman talk, estimate your consumption based on magic made up numbers not on you providing them with the previous 12 months usage. did you change suppliers about 18 months ago?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

EON owed me £400 when I left.
They were still taking the £72 per month.
Said they couldn’t pay me the £400 because there was a discrepancy between the meter readings given to them and SP.
I gave the same meter reading to both EON and SP.

 

[James]

EON owed me £400 when I left.
They were still taking the £72 per month.
Said they couldn’t pay me the £400 because there was a discrepancy between the meter readings given to them and SP.
I gave the same meter reading to both EON and SP.

Will be a year in July.

I hope you kept a record of the meter reading?
would be easy to check against the last eon bill and first sp bill?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I hope you kept a record of the meter reading?
would be easy to check against the last eon bill and first sp bill?

They paid up after a couple of weeks.

 

[leeuk]

are you getting confused with the units?
it says estimated bill for the year 13k khw? or could it be
13 pence per KWh, this is what you are paying for electricity according to the bill data posted above.
not sure where 16.1 figure mentioned earlier is from.
but you are not being charged 16.1 pence per unit its 13 pence.

was on a old letter are you sure its 13p because sp says 16.1p
and even says that on the meter

 

[James]

defiantly 13p
2019
may £28.74 for 216KWh =13.3 pence
april £27.70 for 210KWh =13.2 pence
march £28.62 for 217KWh = 13.2 pence

 

[leeuk]

defiantly 13p
2019
may £28.74 for 216KWh =13.3 pence
april £27.70 for 210KWh =13.2 pence
march £28.62 for 217KWh = 13.2 pence

i guess they didnt add the service charge which is 27.39p per day
Not good at maths lol £60 in top ups in april £35? total costs?


maybe this is the problem i have been on a high tariff on my meter
Still doesnt explain the letters sent with 6k and 13k usages reason my credit it going down like a train


Hopefully get to the bottom of this soon its doing my head in cheers mate

 

[James]

i guess they didnt add the service charge which is 27.39p per day
Not good at maths lol £60 in top ups in april £35? total costs?


maybe this is the problem i have been on a high tariff on my meter
Still doesnt explain the letters sent with 6k and 13k usages reason my credit it going down like a train


Hopefully get to the bottom of this soon its doing my head in cheers mate

If you are putting twice as much money on your meter as you are being billed for, is there a debt registered on the meter?

it could be yours from an old pay monthly meter if you had a large outstanding debt before they fitted pre payment.

or it could be from the previous tenant.

either way if you are constantly putting twice as much credit on as you are using, you should either have a huge credit on the meter or its being offset to a debt, yours or otherwise.

 

[leeuk]

If you are putting twice as much money on your meter as you are being billed for, is there a debt registered on the meter?

it could be yours from an old pay monthly meter if you had a large outstanding debt before they fitted pre payment.

or it could be from the previous tenant.

either way if you are constantly putting twice as much credit on as you are using, you should either have a huge credit on the meter or its being offset to a debt, yours or otherwise.

I have lived here since 2008 Meter says no debt Yes as of today over £500 in credit im sure it should be much more its been going on for years and years

I cant got all the way back to 2008 sp are working on it so i should soon have a much bigger credit hopefully


I will also be able to see my top ups that i have made when i moved in And than match it up with the bill

 

[James]

I have lived here since 2008 Meter says no debt Yes as of today over £500 in credit im sure it should be much more its been going on for years and years

I cant got all the way back to 2008 sp are working on it so i should soon have a much bigger credit hopefully


I will also be able to see my top ups that i have made when i moved in And than match it up with the bill

11 years at £25 per month overpayment =£3,300 refund
don't spend it just yet! but,
I think we have just got to the bottom of the problem.
meter is set to take 40 to 50% of credit applied and use it to pay off a debt that is neither yours or current.
my maths is a bit crude but if they suggest it is any less than a 2k refund due, ask them for all the billing info to back up there claim.

 

[James]

I have known the Citizens advice to be quite good at solving disputes of this nature,
they are a free service and it might be worth taking all your documentation down there for an opinion if you are getting no where with SP.
they are a free service so there is nothing to loose.

Alternatively, you can pm all the info to me and I will fight your case for the nominal fee of 85%, no sorry 95% of all funds recovered??
I've got grandchildren, they are expensive things to keep happy!

 

[Percyprod]

It's a 1993 meter, first 2 digits are the year of manufacture, but it could have been re-certified. I would ask for that credit to be paid to you, far too much to be in their account! You will be paying a higher rate on a key meter.

 

[Octopus]

Hold on ........... how can a pre-payment scheme allow you to get in so much credit?

 

[James]

Hold on ........... how can a pre-payment scheme allow you to get in so much credit?

because 1 in 1000 don't know and they get to keep the money when you disappear?

 

[leeuk]

11 years at £25 per month overpayment =£3,300 refund
don't spend it just yet! but,
I think we have just got to the bottom of the problem.
meter is set to take 40 to 50% of credit applied and use it to pay off a debt that is neither yours or current.
my maths is a bit crude but if they suggest it is any less than a 2k refund due, ask them for all the billing info to back up there claim.

Think thats the reason But when i put £20 in the meter it credits £20 and shows £20 available in the meter

 

[James]

24-May-2019 £ 15.00 (Credit) £ 1451.10 in Credit
16-May-2019 £ 15.00 (Credit) £ 1436.10 in Credit
10-May-2019 £ 10.00 (Credit) £ 1421.10 in Credit
04-May-2019 £ 10.00 (Credit) £ 1411.10 in Credit
24-Apr-2019 £ 10.00 (Credit) £ 1401.10 in Credit
19-Apr-2019 £ 20.00 (Credit) £ 1391.10 in Credit
07-Apr-2019 £ 20.00 (Credit) £ 1371.10 in Credit
02-Apr-2019 £ 10.00 (Credit) £ 1351.10 in Credit
21-Mar-2019 £ 20.00 (Credit) £ 1341.10 in Credit
14-Mar-2019 £ 10.00 (Credit) £ 1321.10 in Credit

I suspect, although have not enough info to confirm.
the £1400 credit on the bill is a REAL credit and also that previously to that you have paid someone else's debt off.
if the debt was say £500 to £1000 which is about the level where they change you to a pre payment meter.
you have over paid around 2 to 2.5k over what you should have.
again, this seems to fit with the crude calcs I did earlier.

I am really keen to see the info that they send to you, please message me directly when you have it. I will happily give it the once over and my opinion. there is something not right, the KWh figures are totally believable and in line with what I would expect. but the billing data is making no sense, there seems to be money going missing.

alternatively, when you get the info from SP post in this thread with the personal details removed.

 

[leeuk]

Cheers i did raise this issue in 2015 i got something like £400-500 back and they were suppose to come out and change the meter.
on aug 11th 2015 But never turned up And as you do i totally forgot about it until recently

But they never did

I Did try and look back at my bank statements But i couldnt find anything from sp

Hopefully it will all show up when they sort out all the bill history
as the online account only has 2 years history payments

Thanks for your help i will keep you updated

 

[leeuk]

oh just to add my gas bill also pre pay is £125 in credit

 

[freddo]

Doesn't one of those buttons on the meter scroll through the displays? One of them will show any any standing charge. Went to test a flat that had been empty for several months, the meter was around £30 in debt even though the main switch was off since the last tenant moved out.

 

[leeuk]

meter said debt £0 on both screens Unless its picking up debt without saying i dunno