Pricing up materials

[karlhill]

I am going back to college next year to complete my C&G and then NVQ and would really like to go self employed doing a bit of everything.

I was wondering if you could give an example domestic installation you have done that I could use to price up materials & labour and also what suppliers you use.

I think domestic work would be my main income but I have a lot of experience as a theatre sound & light technician and would like to get into installing sound and light systems in pubs & clubs.

Many thanks in advance for your help.

 

[DurhamSparky]

use screwfix as a guide!!!

 

[accordfire]

Heh.....

I'm thinking of becoming an electrician, and I'd like one of you to give me a list of all your customers, how much you charge, where you buy your kit, how you do your installs, and......

Actually - I'm thinking of becoming an electrician, but it might be too hard - can one of you save me the bother by doing all the work and just giving me the money....?

Seriously, Mr OP - most of us had to figure out the hard way how to price work, and how to set pricing - I've written reams on here about how to figure out how much you *should* be charging - that would be a good place to start.

Also, if you really want to be self-employed, it sounds like a course (mostly free by your local business link) would be a good place to start.

It comes down to (a) knowing the job you're quoting for, and (b) pricing the job for those parts, your labour, and any mark up you choose to put on, to make a profit. There isn't a standard price for any rewire, as no two are really the same.

I'd also suggest that if you're going to be new to the game, start small - gain experience doing remedial work, small adds, and so on first. Just doing the exams won't make you an electrician.

Sorry if all that sounds harsh - but there is more to it than grabbing the nearest list off someone already doing it.

 

[telectrix]

where's my like button gone? same place as half the forum functions here.

 

[karlhill]

I really don't remember asking you to price a job nor tell me how to do it! It was simply so I could price up the diffrent manufacturers and suppliers to give me a basic idea.

I was then going to start building up a stock of these items so as when I finally decided to start up I had minimal out lay as I have done the same with LED Par cans, multiplexers, signal boosters, DI boxes and DMX leads to do sound and light installs.

I have chosen to take the exams as I started them years ago before the company I worked for went bust and have since had to get someone else into certify the entertainment lighting work I have done and I would like to be able to do the job from start to finish.

I am also currently self employed and know all about people who under cut other people (bottom feeders as they are known) especially in the entertainment lighting install game as you get people with no training and no idea what they're doing making a mess of a £50,000 DMX lighting setup

 

[Octopus]

1 tip - don't forget to add VAT @ 20%

 

[accordfire]

I really don't remember asking you to price a job nor tell me how to do it! It was simply so I could price up the diffrent manufacturers and suppliers to give me a basic idea.

No, to be fair - you asked one step short of that. You just asked for us to effectively do all the research and kit choice for you - as in "an example install and all your suppliers..." - we get a lot of "new" posters in here asking similar things, who effectively get us to do the work and never give a thing back in return. Hence, some of us feel a little bit "guarded" about what we give.

I was then going to start building up a stock of these items so as when I finally decided to start up I had minimal out lay as I have done the same with LED Par cans, multiplexers, signal boosters, DI boxes and DMX leads to do sound and light installs.
[/QUOTE

Probably not the best of ideas in the electrical contracting industry, given we're about to have a regs update, given the fluctuating prices on copper (cable) at present and so on - I'd tend to look to NOT buy stock, price on the fly, and take a deposit at the time of order (with which to buy materials, and defined as such in my contract and terms).

I'd also be worried about having too much of one something, and not enough of another, and finding I had a few grand tied up in stock I couldn't shift - that's not so likelly to be the case with investment led kit like LED stage lighting, MUX's boosters, injector boxes and so on....

I have chosen to take the exams as I started them years ago before the company I worked for went bust and have since had to get someone else into certify the entertainment lighting work I have done and I would like to be able to do the job from start to finish.

I didn't knock you at all for taking the exams - that's a GOOD thing (and essential) - and to be honest, I also tried to HELP by pointing you in the direction of many previous threads on this subject, including reams of my own.

I am also currently self employed and know all about people who under cut other people (bottom feeders as they are known) especially in the entertainment lighting install game as you get people with no training and no idea what they're doing making a mess of a £50,000 DMX lighting setup

In which case, you'll be well aware of where I'm coming from - in an industry which is very over populated with "domestic installers" all cutting each other at the neck for the work - and I honestly have to ask the question why, if you can charge £50k for a DMX install, presumably with a fair margin in it, you'd want to give that up and instead run £3k electrical installs in domestic land.

I'd also wager that if you are currently self-employed, and used to this kind of thing, then you also know very well how difficult it is to establish in a new market (whether in your current field or a new one) - and that your response to a newbie asking these questions in a sound and lighting forum would have been similar.

Contrary to the vibe your response is giving, I did actually try to help, albeit in a guarded fashion - the idea was for you to do a bit of research too, and ask pertinent questions, rather than just expect us to hand it all over because you asked. Kind of the way this forum works.....

You'll tend to find if you give a bit too - you'll get a lot more back. We don't knock anyone with determination here, and we don't even really knock anyone without it either - but you have to appreciate that you're asking people who have spent many years struggling to make it in this game to give you years worth of shortcut - even if only by providing you with a list of suppliers, and common kit - so that you can ultimately become yet more competition for some of us - which I don't have anything against - it's an open field - but, it's a field you have to earn the stripes to play on.

By all means though - look round the forum, do the searches, and come back with questions.....we don't bite......usually.

 

[paturback]

what do you mean?

I was wondering if you could give an example domestic installation you have done that I could use to price up materials & labour and also what suppliers you use.

Tell you how much to charge for a rewire and who my suppliers are?

 

[karlhill]

Hi Bill thank you for your reply the sound and light game is totally changing as is the electrical more and more places are moving on to led units which mean less to go wrong so apart from installing then taking it all down while they paint the nicotine stained ceiling and putting it up again there is very little to do at the minute.

I have had a look through the forums and been on some links that say in such an such a place they charge so much in labour and thought that it would be an idea to get a few prices for materials and ensure I am average priced so as not to undercut anyone as that really pigs me off all the clients care about in many trades is price and very rarely are they converted.

 

[RWJ]

I'm doing a college project and I'm looking for someone to drive the van and pay my mortgage....... Any takers?

 

[karlhill]

All I was asking was a simple enquiry which could of been answered something like average install 30 double sockets 20 ceiling drops 45amp cooker switch 45 amp pull cord 8 way cu normally use cef or e&e.
then i could price it up deduct from a few websites that show total costs of a rewire that would equal labour figure including certs and i could then ensure that i don't join the bottom feaders association but make a living plus pay for PLI membership fees, van insurance depreciation etc.

But seeing as you think I'm a DIYer who thinks he's been ripped off by the local spark there is a very good chance of me undercutting you and taking work off you and generally lowering the customers view of other sparks who are charging more.

Anyway rant over I've found what I was looking for elsewhere!

 

[accordfire]

Hi Bill thank you for your reply the sound and light game is totally changing as is the electrical more and more places are moving on to led units which mean less to go wrong so apart from installing then taking it all down while they paint the nicotine stained ceiling and putting it up again there is very little to do at the minute.

I have had a look through the forums and been on some links that say in such an such a place they charge so much in labour and thought that it would be an idea to get a few prices for materials and ensure I am average priced so as not to undercut anyone as that really pigs me off all the clients care about in many trades is price and very rarely are they converted.

I get that - the electrical industry isn't really much better, though - lots of guys chasing not so much work.

Labour charges are regionally variable - generally, less outside London than within.

As for materials, most guys get the best prices they can from suppliers by sticking with them and negotiating hard. Then they put a mark up on to suit. Again, it's really more of a case of charging what the market will bear - which is in turn the minimum you can charge to make a profit having paid your overhead costs.

All electricians are going to need basics - and TBH that all most of us keep in stock, as such, these days - maybe a C/U or two if that's kind of bread and butter - but things like breakers, to fit various boards, cable, fuses, a few sockets, spurs, light fittings - mostly what you might term "emergency" kit - to get a punter out of trouble late at night - and the rest is usually bought on spec once the job has been seen.

As for WHO the suppliers are - a lot of that depends as well on where in the UK you are - we've got guys on her who swear by their own little trade counters, others who go solely by Cities, or Newies, or even Expensive Edmundsons, and of course, it would be rude not to point you in the direction of our very own forum sponsors......which is probably the place to start - get in touch and ask them for a price list -

Other side of things - to get to the "right" price to charge - and indeed, to minimise outlay later on, the things you really want to be concentrating on are areas like tools, meters, test kit, and so on - those are pricey, and better bought now, than later.