Pricing

[Sparks321]

Hi, wondering what’s peoples opinions on pricing for work. How do you price for installing sockets and lights? Do you have a fixed price per socket and that includes materials and first fix and 2nd fix?

 

[Intoelectrics]

Depends on the job, if its new build then pricing per item is generally straightforward.
Jobs that include alterations and/or additions can be a more awkward due to what you might find during the job. What might on the face of it look like a straightforward job can end up a nightmare if you come across some previously dodgy or old installs.
You can offer a set price to your client with a caveat that upon inspection if you find additional requirements these may be extra.
I generally price which ever way fits the job best. Sometimes I work it all out and whack on a 10-20% contingency, if I fear the job may entail more work than expected. After a while you get a feel for it and can judge one way or another. This also applies to the client, in that whether they appear to be mean, generous or sensible.

 

[LukeD]

Its down to customer attitude, their property and the ease of working there etc .There is more than just the work itself sometimes

 

[Sparks321]

Depends on the job, if its new build then pricing per item is generally straightforward.
Jobs that include alterations and/or additions can be a more awkward due to what you might find during the job. What might on the face of it look like a straightforward job can end up a nightmare if you come across some previously dodgy or old installs.
You can offer a set price to your client with a caveat that upon inspection if you find additional requirements these may be extra.
I generally price which ever way fits the job best. Sometimes I work it all out and whack on a 10-20% contingency, if I fear the job may entail more work than expected. After a while you get a feel for it and can judge one way or another. This also applies to the client, in that whether they appear to be mean, generous or sensible.

So what price per item is a good guide? Say some one wants 4 extra sockets and they bought the cable and sockets. Could you say £40 per point?

 

[Dustydazzler]

If you are unsure of the extent of work required , then an hourly rate is your safest best. somewhere in the £50-60 per hour is what most sparks in my area charge for small jobs. Some charge a lot more especially for more specialised stuff like board changes and eicrs but as a rule I quote £60 ph nearly always...

40£ per socket is way too cheap imo , if the customer really wants you 'on price' then I would quote £300 otherwise I let some other shmuck do it

 

[DefyG]

Could you say £40 per point?

You could but think you are under pricing at that unless all virtually next to one another on a stud wall!

 

[LukeD]

You could but think you are under pricing at that unless all virtually next to one another on a stud wall!

Per point can still have so many variations etc .

 

[Sparks321]

If you are unsure of the extent of work required , then an hourly rate is your safest best. somewhere in the £50-60 per hour is what most sparks in my area charge for small jobs. Some charge a lot more especially for more specialised stuff like board changes and eicrs but as a rule I quote £60 ph nearly always...

40£ per socket is way too cheap imo , if the customer really wants you 'on price' then I would quote £300 otherwise I let some other shmuck do it

£50-60 an hr?? Thought £25 an hr was kind of going rate to be honest. So how do you quote a full rewire? Do you charge per point? Trying to sort my pricing out as I don’t like an hrly rate as i can put the work in fast on jobs at times.

 

[Dustydazzler]

£50-60 an hr?? Thought £25 an hr was kind of going rate to be honest. So how do you quote a full rewire? Do you charge per point? Trying to sort my pricing out as I don’t like an hrly rate as i can put the work in fast on jobs at times.

I was charging £25 ph 15 years ago but had so much work on it was getting silly , so i slowly upped my rate year on year on year

a full re-wire would involve a site visit , inspection of the loft area , flooring , walls , discuss making damage , making good , redecoration , what they want , what they don;t want etc etc

once you are armed with all this information you can estimate a price

i have done re-wires as cheap as 3 grand right up to 10 grand and more

no 2 jobs are ever the same so imo point per price doesnt work unless its a string of identical new builds

 

[Sparks321]

I was charging £25 ph 15 years ago but had so much work on it was getting silly , so i slowly upped my rate year on year on year

a full re-wire would involve a site visit , inspection of the loft area , flooring , walls , discuss making damage , making good , redecoration , what they want , what they don;t want etc etc

once you are armed with all this information you can estimate a price

i have done re-wires as cheap as 3 grand right up to 10 grand and more

no 2 jobs are ever the same so imo point per price doesnt work unless its a string of identical new builds

Yeah i know that but just when a customer asks for a breakdown or if they did i would be able to cover myself in the pricing. Must be somewhere where you do point pricing. A house is a house end of day all pretty similar in build etc,

 

[DefyG]

Must be somewhere where you do point pricing.

New builds! Complete unoccupied refurbs!

Never occupied premises.

 

[loz2754]

Rule number 1: never allow the customer to purchase standard electrical materials.
Rule number 2: never give a detailed breakdown of costs.
Rule number 3: remember it costs you money to be in business before you even get out of bed, and this has to be accounted for.

Start by working out materials plus markup. Add the number of hours to complete the whole job.
Add a contingency sum. From this total you can work out a price per point. Mine is between £65 and £75 per point (so in a room you have a light, a switch, 3 sockets etc, all at £65 each).
Cooker circuit, consumer unit and shower circuit each have their own special price, again based on time and materials.

If the customer quibbles I walk away without asking questions...

 

[Sparks321]

New builds! Complete unoccupied refurbs!

Never occupied premises.

So new builds then, do you price per point and what do you price?

 

[DefyG]

So new builds then, do you price per point and what do you price?

How long is a piece of string?
We tend to do individual properties where high or quite high end accessories are specified so PPP will vary considerably from a Persimmon Homes estate house for example. PPP in the south will again vary from your part of the world.
A recent project for example with metal accessories was priced at £92.50 per double socket but that wont have much bearing on what you are asking.

 

[Dustydazzler]

So new builds then, do you price per point and what do you price?

5 houses or 500 houses

i have known sparks charge as little as 50 quid a point when lashing is stuff for the big house builders but the margins are so tight its hardly worth getting off the sofa for

 

[James]

Per point is not my preferred option.

I don't get involved in domestic work now but did many years ago.

Always look at a job before giving a price,

The day you quote over the phone for 1 additional socket @£80 is the day you will regret all week.

The customer grumbles at the price because another guy quoted £60 but cant make it for a week because he is too busy.
you take the job

after discovering bricks that melt your masonry drill bits,
a cable route that just throws you problems every step of the way,
a DB that although looked fine at first glance, has an rcd that is bypassed because there are other serious issues in the install.
after 3 hours work, you tell them it cant be connected because the circuit has dangerous faults and it will take at least a day to rectify them at £300

Customer is convinced you are just spinning the job for extra money and wont pay a penny because you have not done the job they asked you to do.

Going round to quote a job is not just looking at the work involved and estimating time and materials,
it also gives you an opportunity to meet and assess the customer, think carefully especially if others have quoted for it but have not been accepted.

The world of television has convinced a lot of the domestic customers that every trade is out to get them, however I have seen many a tradesperson brought to their knees by an unreasonable customer and the tv crews are not there to share it with the world.

 

[Sparks321]

Rule number 1: never allow the customer to purchase standard electrical materials.
Rule number 2: never give a detailed breakdown of costs.
Rule number 3: remember it costs you money to be in business before you even get out of bed, and this has to be accounted for.

Start by working out materials plus markup. Add the number of hours to complete the whole job.
Add a contingency sum. From this total you can work out a price per point. Mine is between £65 and £75 per point (so in a room you have a light, a switch, 3 sockets etc, all at £65 each).
Cooker circuit, consumer unit and shower circuit each have their own special price, again based on time and materials.

If the customer quibbles I walk away without asking questions...

Think am way too cheap. So when you price per point does that include the time to chase walls, pull cables in, lift floor boards and first and 2nd fix?

 

[Dustydazzler]

A Point per price usually included everything , hence 'per point' 1 box 1 front plate 1-2 length of clipped cable etc

It was a very crude way back in the day if a house builder wanted a ball park for 30 houses you just said 50 squid per point and they could roughly work out the price

these were rough arse building jobs where you throw in the cheapest arse stuff you could get your hands on

 

[Sparky Pat]

Before you try working out a price sit down with a piece of paper and write down all your behind the scenes operating costs, eg insurances, nic membership, accountants, vehicle , fuel , accounts software, certificate software, tools, bank charges etc
I did a rough guide recently and it is costing me in the region of £16K a year to operate before taking a wage.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Before you try working out a price sit down with a piece of paper and write down all your behind the scenes operating costs, eg insurances, nic membership, accountants, vehicle , fuel , accounts software, certificate software, tools, bank charges etc
I did a rough guide recently and it is costing me in the region of £16K a year to operate before taking a wage.

Im not far off that

I reckon it costs me a grand a month just to be a sparks before I actually do any work

The way i look at things now is the first week i work is spent on expenses , the second 2 week goes to me and the last week goes straight to the tax man

I know a couple guys who reckon to pay yourself £50K a year you need to turn over £150K of business

 

[mattg4321]

Im not far off that

I reckon it costs me a grand a month just to be a sparks before I actually do any work

The way i look at things now is the first week i work is spent on expenses , the second 2 week goes to me and the last week goes straight to the tax man

I know a couple guys who reckon to pay yourself £50K a year you need to turn over £150K of business

You should just take the first and last week of the month off!

 

[mattg4321]

Before you try working out a price sit down with a piece of paper and write down all your behind the scenes operating costs, eg insurances, nic membership, accountants, vehicle , fuel , accounts software, certificate software, tools, bank charges etc
I did a rough guide recently and it is costing me in the region of £16K a year to operate before taking a wage.

£16k sounds a bit more than me. I assume you’re not a 1 man band, or that you buy a new Transporter Sportline each year!?

 

[Dustydazzler]

You should just take the first and last week of the month off!

Then how would I pay the day to day running costs to stay in business ? that would then have to come out of weeks 2 & 3

As I say its costs me roughly a grand a month just to remain in business before I even earn a single penny

If i take a week off a month the business costs remain the same , scams need paying , van needs paying etc

 

[DPG]

Then how would I pay the day to day running costs to stay in business ? that would then have to come out of weeks 2 & 3

As I say its costs me roughly a grand a month just to remain in business before I even earn a single penny

If i take a week off a month the business costs remain the same , scams need paying , van needs paying etc

I think he was joking ?

 

[Dustydazzler]

I think he was joking ?

I got that and its not a bad idea ?

 

[telectrix]

1 week out of 4 to pay tax. you need a better accountant.

 

[Sparky Pat]

I got that and its not a bad idea ?

£16k sounds a bit more than me. I assume you’re not a 1 man band, or that you buy a new Transporter Sportline each year!?

1 man band, based in west wales, 6 yr old van

 

[mattg4321]

How did you come up with £16k unless you're including tax/pension?

 

[LukeD]

Rule number 1: never allow the customer to purchase standard electrical materials.
Rule number 2: never give a detailed breakdown of costs.
Rule number 3: remember it costs you money to be in business before you even get out of bed, and this has to be accounted for.

Start by working out materials plus markup. Add the number of hours to complete the whole job.
Add a contingency sum. From this total you can work out a price per point. Mine is between £65 and £75 per point (so in a room you have a light, a switch, 3 sockets etc, all at £65 each).
Cooker circuit, consumer unit and shower circuit each have their own special price, again based on time and materials.

If the customer quibbles I walk away without asking questions...

THis 100% .Its going to be another race to the bottom soon. Ive just worked for a client at a super luxury retirement place in the very north of london .Its "Gods waiting room" . And marketed as been heaven (US owned company) It was all done of the cheap and nasty as they dont expect most residents to live long and the company takes 20% of the sale price !!! Some of the guys working there where seriously "straight off the boat .." but not a real boat .Just arrived from Albania . Many with zero clue . Every contractor was taken down to the bone on price etc and you can tell .As none of them will return to snag etc . They are high and dry and many new residents ----ed off at nothing been done . They paid peanuts and treated people badly . I roll up , do my private work in a apartment and the lady that they cannot fix . pays me , then sends them a bill as she wont stand for stuff not working or needing silly amounts of snagging etc . They bitch about my costs . ONLY as they are so use to people working cheaply . Domestic work is still the best I think . easier to walk away from as well if it starts getting bent out of shape .

 

[Electrics]

Imo you should always work out a job as if you were being employed by someone else.

So let's say you work or a company and it's just a boss man and you.

He charges X for your time to the customer, and after all is said and done the company makes Y profit. Out of Y profit, he takes dividends as the director.

This is how you should operate your company. Not exactly the same but under this premise.

So if you want to take home a wage of £1000 per week, you don't just charge £25 an hour for yourself. You need to charge the extra to make sure the company itself makes some profit too. It's what would happen if you were doing work under another company, so you should do it as a one man band too.

So working for someone else, i may get £15-20 per hour. So working for myself i want £40 per hour on average. This means i'm charging £320 a day on price work for myself.

If it's only changing half a dozen fittings and you're certain it's only gonna be a few hours or a half day or whatever then you can charge per point but me i'd just think 'it'll be 4 hours, i want £160.'

Just so much easier to work out a day rate and then figure out how long it will take you and price accordingly, imo. I always add on days of contingency - depending on job size depends how many days i add.

Never failed me yet and i've never had jobs where i've been like 'oh damn i've lost money here'.

 

[cliffed]

Per point is not my preferred option.

I don't get involved in domestic work now but did many years ago.

Always look at a job before giving a price,

The day you quote over the phone for 1 additional socket @£80 is the day you will regret all week.

The customer grumbles at the price because another guy quoted £60 but cant make it for a week because he is too busy.
you take the job

after discovering bricks that melt your masonry drill bits,
a cable route that just throws you problems every step of the way,
a DB that although looked fine at first glance, has an rcd that is bypassed because there are other serious issues in the install.
after 3 hours work, you tell them it cant be connected because the circuit has dangerous faults and it will take at least a day to rectify them at £300

Customer is convinced you are just spinning the job for extra money and wont pay a penny because you have not done the job they asked you to do.

Going round to quote a job is not just looking at the work involved and estimating time and materials,
it also gives you an opportunity to meet and assess the customer, think carefully especially if others have quoted for it but have not been accepted.

The world of television has convinced a lot of the domestic customers that every trade is out to get them, however I have seen many a tradesperson brought to their knees by an unreasonable customer and the tv crews are not there to share it with the world.

Totally agree I was @ a school the other day..just finishing a nice refit…estate manager/caretaker asked if I could change a twin socket..took the front off you never seen such a bodge.
4 x 2.5mm T/E cables connected.. pulled on them connectors fell out with a ring main behind the pattress…it now becomes a major job.
No way I could refit the socket,& couldn’t leave it like it… got the caretaker..look @ that..he said what’s wrong with it.??


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