RCBO fly leads

[Engineer54]

Any functional earth leads from RCBO's and the like, should be terminated with that circuits CPC. I've always had it done that way, and will continue to do so... I can't think of anything worse than opening up a DB/CU and seeing a bunched load of functional earths into one or more terminals.

 

[somersetsparks]

Any functional earth leads from RCBO's and the like, should be terminated with that circuits CPC. I've always had it done that way, and will continue to do so... I can't think of anything worse than opening up a DB/CU and seeing a bunched load of functional earths into one or more terminals.

Although I would have agreed with you until recently engineer, its not until I had to do a few EICR's when you have 10 RCBO's in a small placcy fuseboard and have to undo every cpc termination to do my IR tests and then redo them (some inevitably need re-terminating as well) that I thought any different.
I suppose its only come to light now as I have started testing a lot of 17th edition RCBO houses, how I wish we could go back to the simple times of the 16th! lol
It might look a bit crappy but IMHO a lot more practical, anyhow either way is entirely inconsequential when it comes to safety etc.
Now on TPN board or even a single phase board with a mixture of MCB's and RCBO's I would definitely put them with their respective CPC's

 

[NDG Elecs]

twisting tri-rate with solid cores or stranded ?

Whats tri-rate mate?

It is sometimes awkward trying to twist the stranded with the solid I must admit!!

just googled tri-rate.... never knowingly used it unless most singles are rated such. Guessing the fly lead would be tri rated..

 

[Engineer54]

Although I would have agreed with you until recently engineer, its not until I had to do a few EICR's when you have 10 RCBO's in a small placcy fuseboard and have to undo every cpc termination to do my IR tests and then redo them (some inevitably need re-terminating as well) that I thought any different.
I suppose its only come to light now as I have started testing a lot of 17th edition RCBO houses, how I wish we could go back to the simple times of the 16th! lol
It might look a bit crappy but IMHO a lot more practical, anyhow either way is entirely inconsequential when it comes to safety etc.
Now on TPN board or even a single phase board with a mixture of MCB's and RCBO's I would definitely put them with their respective CPC's

I don't know how you conduct circuit IR testing, but i test circuit by circuit, so every CPC on the earth rail bar would be disconnected as a matter of course anyway. It would also, be very rare where you would not have a mixture of RCBO's and MCB's in a 3 phase DB.

 

[somersetsparks]

on a domestic db, I would do a global IR test usually and only breakdown to individual circuits if problems are found, on a 3 phase db, I would test individual circuits, I was only referring to new all rcbo domestic db's with regards to grouping the flyleads anyhow

 

[Knobhead]

I can’t see why this is a question, logic dictates you should have the functional earth and circuit earth at the same point.

Or am I just too logical?

 

[High Tower]

yep.
it looks an utter dogs dinner when you dont lol.
;-)

Glad it's not just me!!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I can’t see why this is a question, logic dictates you should have the functional earth and circuit earth at the same point.

Or am I just too logical?

no...your not being too logical here Tony...
i think its just common sense to do it....the bars are numbered....so you use the corisponding number for the way being occupied....
thats the way it should be....i mean, what in future if that RCBO needs to come out?.....so i suppose its a case of sorting through a bundle of functional earths...till you get the right one.....it`s slovenly...thats what it is...

 

[Engineer54]

on a domestic db, I would do a global IR test usually and only breakdown to individual circuits if problems are found, on a 3 phase db, I would test individual circuits, I was only referring to new all rcbo domestic db's with regards to grouping the flyleads anyhow

In my line of projects we don't do global IR testing. In fact i can't honestly say i remember the last time i did a global IR on an installation. As a complete guess i wold say, probably sometime in the 80's. ...lol!! Even then, on a new installation, i would never conduct a global IR test. What figure do you fill in, on your test result sheets/report, for the individual circuits, if you only conduct global IR tests and the results are good??

 

[somersetsparks]

the same figure for all circuits, i believe it is actually recommended to do a global IR test on an eicr when practical

 

[Engineer54]

the same figure for all circuits, i believe it is actually recommended to do a global IR test on an eicr then practical

Not saying anything is wrong with Global IR's, just that in my line of work it isn't practical or suitable for recording values on new installations.

 

[somersetsparks]

Not saying anything is wrong with Global IR's, just that in my line of work it isn't practical or suitable for recording values on new installations.

would agree with you on that one, global IR is pretty much confined to domestic, i cant think of many times on a commercial or industrial test that I've Been able to remove every load/ fly lead etc at once lol

 

[Knobhead]

the same figure for all circuits, i believe it is actually recommended to do a global IR test on an eicr when practical

I don’t think E54 would and I certainly wouldn’t accept that.
It’s a short cut that just wouldn’t cut the ice on anything I’ve been involved with.

 

[Outspoken]

The RCD flylead should always be installed in the same terminal as the circuit cpc, for me any other way is a bodge and I would never accept it on one of our installations. The idea of a global IR even in a domestic is simply a cop out for poor quality testing and should never have been encouraged, allowed or implemented by anyone in the industry.

 

[Mr Mark Sparks]

Re global IR when we have lost work to these testing specialist then won the remedial s their results are all global and suspicious eg.
36 way 3 ph db
l-n lim l-e 3 meg n-e 3 meg for the whole board and often on all boards

 

[somersetsparks]

The RCD flylead should always be installed in the same terminal as the circuit cpc, for me any other way is a bodge and I would never accept it on one of our installations. The idea of a global IR even in a domestic is simply a cop out for poor quality testing and should never have been encouraged, allowed or implemented by anyone in the industry.

it isnt a cop out it's a recommended method, it can only be done in installations where you can have everything off/ unplugged at once, which limits it to domestic, which is all this thread was ever about!

Even when you do it by the book you can't do it right according to this site lol

 

[Outspoken]

it isnt a cop out it's a recommended method, it can only be done in installations where you can have everything off/ unplugged at once, which limits it to domestic, which is all this thread was ever about!

Even when you do it by the book you can't do it right according to this site lol

Bit of an over reaction, I did not the sparks, the fault lies with those who right the guidelines

 

[somersetsparks]

Bit of an over reaction, I did not the sparks, the fault lies with those who right the guidelines

fair enough mate, I value your opinion and everyone else's, that's what the site is for!
I ran out Of smokes this morning so may have Been a bit sharp!
as an aside note, when installing new ccts. I would always IR them before connection, but I will stand by the global IR as a good method for domestic eicrs

 

[Stroppy]

Does anyone cut excessively long fly leads down?

Nooo! What if you need to move the RCBO further away from the terminals? Then it will be too short. Coil them up into a nice springy pig-tail.

 

[Engineer54]

As for cutting/shortening RCBO neutral tails, ''Yes'' every time, where an excessive amount would be left to hide or whatever. You won't find any coiled springs in any of our panels,DB's. But how many of you actually reinstate a connection ferrule to the cut/shortened tail?? As far as i'm concerned this is a Must Do, flexible multi stranded cable is just not suitable for standard screwed terminals!!