Discuss RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A rant! in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Totally agree Trev about an EICR but we're talking about a db change here and the install of a RCD into the system. Common-sense would be to quickly test any loads before walking away.
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Of course, if it looked like a dodgy secondhand oven that's been stood dormant in a damp shed for years before the landlord bought it, I could suggest turning every element up to max, whipping out the earth conductor and standing well clear! Lol
after 5-10 mins the fault may clear... And at the worse there would be a bloody great hole in the faulty element or the remnants of a faulty stat controller splattered around the kitchen ;-)
..... But obviously that is well outside the scope of bs7671 ...

That is so true!! I did similar once. Cooker had been left in garage for couple of years. Had to run it on non-RCD side for 20 minutes to "dry it out" before switching it back over :)
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Don't understand that Dave. You are saying don't do I/R with loads connected as not in regs (but would really help) but are ok with taking oven apart which is definatly outside BS7671 scope and not his job to do. ?

No I said testing of appliances is not part of installation testing but that appliance testing was as far as I know also mandatory for rented properties.

BS7671 does not define the role of an electrician! it is a set of regulations for electrical installations.
Appliance repairs, especially cookers, is a normal part of an electricians job is it not?
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Totally agree Trev about an EICR but we're talking about a db change here and the install of a RCD into the system. Common-sense would be to quickly test any loads before walking away.
Even then mate, I don't do it. Appliances are not my problem and I've always spelt that out.
Would you stick the washing machine of for a cycle? :)
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Yes, well there was a shower recently put in by whom I don't know, no RCD, there was also a alteration to the boiler circuit from a wart heater which was wired upstairs to a combi which is now wired downstairs no RCD.he had 2 sockets within 300mm in the kitchen to the hob and sink, I know this is just in the building regs, but in my opinion it wAs a better outcome to upgrade the board rather than spuring out in such a tight space as I could only fit a 6 way board In the cupboard where the board was located.

If I am wrong please explain, cos I thought any alteration to a circuit then the whole circuit had to be done to the current regulations.

What the hell is a "wart heater"??

I thought the treatment for warts is to freeze them.
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

I think what Dave means is that if you'd done a functional test on the oven you might have found it before all this but I have to say, if I'm doing a domestic EICR I don't go round checking the appliances so I'd have missed this one too.

Yeah thats about it.

I wouldn't check appliances on an EICR, but after changing a CU and adding RCD protection I do check that the important appliances all work without tripping RCD's, Fridges and freezers, oven, immersion, boiler, kettle (naturally the most important ;) )
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Even then mate, I don't do it. Appliances are not my problem and I've always spelt that out.
Would you stick the washing machine of for a cycle? :)

Not plug in appliances, no Trev.
like I say, I've just learnt the hard way, I always do a quick check on immersions, boilers, water heaters, ovens, hobs, showers etc. surprising how nanny faulty ones I've found, and always easier to explain to the customer on site rather than have a call back at my expense...
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Age of alterations is irrelevant as far as EICR coding goes. If the alterations have recently been carried out other than in accordance with the regulations then the owner of the property should take it up with the person who did the work for him.
Well I was under the impression you test to the age of the installation, ie both works were carried out and should of been put on an RCD. Also maybe I am wrong, but who puts satisfactory when there is an electric shower with no RCD, just sends a shiver up my spine. I thought at the end of the day it comes down to the testers professional look at the regs are a guide.

Could I have said satisfactory then you think?
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

I've always hated wart heaters too Jimmy, I always thought they had to be frozen off :)


Haha ..... Snap bonny lad!!

I posted the exact same thing before I saw yours!

Geordie humour eh?? ;)
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Yeah thats about it.

I wouldn't check appliances on an EICR, but after changing a CU and adding RCD protection I do check that the important appliances all work without tripping RCD's, Fridges and freezers, oven, immersion, boiler, kettle (naturally the most important ;) )
Maybe I should rethink my standards as I've always only checked the kettle :)
NB I'm not saying I use the kettle as an installation tester :)
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

I think what Dave means is that if you'd done a functional test on the oven you might have found it before all this but I have to say, if I'm doing a domestic EICR I don't go round checking the appliances so I'd have missed this one too.
Yer but who turns ovens on for 20 minutes to check lol I see what you are saying.
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Of course, if it looked like a dodgy secondhand oven that's been stood dormant in a damp shed for years before the landlord bought it, I could suggest turning every element up to max, whipping out the earth conductor and standing well clear! Lol
after 5-10 mins the fault may clear... And at the worse there would be a bloody great hole in the faulty element or the remnants of a faulty stat controller splattered around the kitchen ;-)
..... But obviously that is well outside the scope of bs7671 ...
Haha that made me laugh.
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Yeah thats about it.

I wouldn't check appliances on an EICR, but after changing a CU and adding RCD protection I do check that the important appliances all work without tripping RCD's, Fridges and freezers, oven, immersion, boiler, kettle (naturally the most important ;) )
There was nothing there only the oven and it originally took 20 minutes to trip, would you have seriously stood there waiting for 20 minutes!
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Well I was under the impression you test to the age of the installation, ie both works were carried out and should of been put on an RCD. Also maybe I am wrong, but who puts satisfactory when there is an electric shower with no RCD, just sends a shiver up my spine. I thought at the end of the day it comes down to the testers professional look at the regs are a guide.

Could I have said satisfactory then you think?


No you inspect and test to the current version of the regulations, and code accordingly. New works which don't comply receive the same codes as 30 year old installations with teh same non-compliances.
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

No you inspect and test to the current version of the regulations, and code accordingly. New works which don't comply receive the same codes as 30 year old installations with teh same non-compliances.
So a shower just on a mcb you would code c3?
Looks like I am too harsh then.
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

My mrs recently new bezzy girl mates partner has some property, my mrs said, " my hubby do it for ya at a good rate "

joy i think. I had this gut feeling, you know the one! My mrs and her mate have been looking to get us two men friends, there was even talks of going camping, err don't think that will be happening now. Lol


Anyway, I will refer to him as the landlord but least you now know the connections.

The landlord URGENTLY needed to get a EICR pass certificate, so that the council would let him rent his property to one of their tenants. It's the weekend and I said " ok, I'd do it."

After doing a test, the test failed and I said it was in his best interest to just upgrade the whole board. Nothing was on a RCD, he had an electric shower recently installed as well as a boiler upgrade converted from a water heater tank to a combi no RCD . I charged him 350 total, (I hate favours) this included changing to metal light fitting to pendants cos no earth just a flex visible, installing another 2 lights that were off the wall, replace two 1 gang sockets, clipping a twin earth to wall in the out house and Changing a pull cord. Bonding from 6 to 10 mm. Also after removing the cooker switch had to extend the cables.

Anyway the tenant moves in on the Monday, uses the oven and the RCD trips. Great, I just knew it! I went round there, I disconnect the oven re-check the insulation of the 6mm cable as I need to lengthen the cables of the cooker socket after removing it, could of be a fault there. It reads 216 meg ohms, I check the oven it reads 0.96meg at first and slowly goes up every time it recheck it. I tell him it's the oven. I put the oven back In as it reads 3 meg the time I last check. It tripped again after about 10 minutes. I was there 2 hours.

He is under the impression that it is to do with the work I done and said in the form of a text, "well I thought you passed this property and it was good to go." I then politely explained that I only checked the fixed wiring. I also I hinted that I wanted extra money.

After much explaining and explaining the difference between mcb and RCD I told him that he needed a new oven. There was many texts thrown backward and forwards.

I ended saying, " look ! Don't worry about paying me for this extra call, there's nothing more I can do, you need a new oven and find another electrician. I didn't end it to professionally I know, but man I thought I was the one doing the favour, I did get annoyed with he constant questioning as if I am trying to rip him off saying well it was working before. I would be interested what he would of been charged by going to a local firm. I did Explain well there wasn't an RCD before and push in mcbs don't pick up this kind of fault.

he then started saying well he finds it rather strange, the guy told me he had his part p so you would expect he would understand what I was explaining.

Anyway now it's playing on mind. I just want to know now, will he get a oven, will he get another electrician out. cos sure what of he does replace the oven and it does still trip. Arrrrh ! Give me comfort someone lol also how would you deal with this professionally because having to send texting explaining how an RCD works and the difference between an RCD and mcb just didn't do it for me.


thanks in advance for any replies


Jim


i dont know.
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

People will have you working 24/7 for favours. I don't do "favours" for anyone apart from my closest family. Some people think you run a charity rather than make a living. :)

Although, It's probably the oven element, a quick check and offering a price to change the element out might have been an answer he would have accepted. Then again if he is as bigger idiot as you describe probably not.

Anyway we live and learn.
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

The shower would depend on any supplementary bonding too... If there is bonding it's only a code3
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

This is why I support the idea of Domestic installers and the like, not being permitted to carry out EICRs. Or there should at least be another registration process in order to be able to do so!




lights touch paper and runs....
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

This is why I support the idea of Domestic installers and the like, not being permitted to carry out EICRs. Or there should at least be another registration process in order to be able to do so!




lights touch paper and runs....

thats a bit harsh isn't it. I got me 2391, also I was thinking whilst going over what I did, the 2391 only teaches you the process of the test and to do it safety and then you have the 17 edition to refer to, everything else I have picked up is from experience. With how you explain it people can just install what they want illegally then when it comes to a EICR it just coded c3
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

My mrs recently new bezzy girl mates partner has some property

If I understand that correctly, you mean your Mrs has a new best friend who happens to be a female who is in a relationship with someone (a male) who has just purchased a property...
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

If I understand that correctly, you mean your Mrs has a new best friend who happens to be a female who is in a relationship with someone (a male) who has just purchased a property...
no.

its essex...

so it`l be a festival of.....
 
It happens mate. At the end of last year within 2 days I had an oven tripping one CU and a shower another for 2 different clients after changing them. Was lucky enough to find out while checking after upgrade but it doesn't change much because you still gotta tell them their 15 year old shower and 30 year old oven are just not quite up to scratch for the new RCD. I was lucky they were both decent people. I wouldn't stress about it to be honest mate. He's got himself a rather good deal to be fair! If he's gonna be like that, you're probably better off not having him as a camping buddy! I haven't done so myself but am I not right in saying as long as a cooker doesn't have a socket outlet it doesn't have to be on an RCD anyway as it is a fixed appliance?
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

If I understand that correctly, you mean your Mrs has a new best friend who happens to be a female who is in a relationship with someone (a male) who has just purchased a property...
Sorry yes I should spend more time to make sure what I put down is correctly expressed. It always makes sense in my head haha. My wife has recently made friends with a women, the women's partner is the landlord. Does this make better sense.
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

the water is still in lead pipes around there n all...

Talking of pipes, do you watch that program on bbc2, it's on ech Tuesday at 9pm, sure it's channel 2. Called watermen, a dirty business. It's quite interesting!
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Sorry yes I should spend more time to make sure what I put down is correctly expressed. It always makes sense in my head haha. My wife has recently made friends with a women, the women's partner is the landlord. Does this make better sense.
Spoken like a true gentleman James :)
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

It happens mate. At the end of last year within 2 days I had an oven tripping one CU and a shower another for 2 different clients after changing them. Was lucky enough to find out while checking after upgrade but it doesn't change much because you still gotta tell them their 15 year old shower and 30 year old oven are just not quite up to scratch for the new RCD. I was lucky they were both decent people. I wouldn't stress about it to be honest mate. He's got himself a rather good deal to be fair! If he's gonna be like that, you're probably better off not having him as a camping buddy! I haven't done so myself but am I not right in saying as long as a cooker doesn't have a socket outlet it doesn't have to be on an RCD anyway as it is a fixed appliance?

It does have a socket outlet.
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

no.

its essex...

so it`l be a festival of.....

I know Essex has a reputation, you just jealous. When I was in the army, I brought some northerners back here, mate, they couldn't hack the heat. I will say they didn't knock it's reputation after leaving, all scoring.
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Can't be bothered to read the whole thread so this may have already been pointed out. Going from your OP, it sounds very much like an element or elements is/are breaking down, it all may test out pretty much fine when cold, but as the element(s) is/are getting hotter, the IR is is reducing to a point where the RCD will see the resulting leakage and operate....
 
Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Sorry yes I should spend more time to make sure what I put down is correctly expressed. It always makes sense in my head haha. My wife has recently made friends with a women, the women's partner is the landlord. Does this make better sense.

Would that be one "women" or two "women" ??
 

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